Woodrow Wilson killed by Spanish Flu (user search)
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  Woodrow Wilson killed by Spanish Flu (search mode)
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Author Topic: Woodrow Wilson killed by Spanish Flu  (Read 557 times)
brucejoel99
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Posts: 16,921
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E: -3.48, S: -3.30


« on: October 14, 2021, 06:01:41 PM »


Assuming Wilson contracts the flu that kills him at the same point he probably contracted it real life*, then I can't see President Marshall heading to Versailles to replace Wilson at the head of the American delegation. So Secretary of State Lansing would be leading the American delegation there. Lansing was skeptical about the League of Nations, so it's possible that it wouldn't be included in the treaty and even if it were, it would be a weaker organization. In either case, it becomes more likely the eventual treaty is ratified by the United States Senate.

One side effect in either case is that the hypocrisy of the mandate system would be avoided and the former German and Ottoman territory that became mandates would instead be Allied colonies de jure instead of just de facto. It's hard to see how the terms could have been made much harsher against the Central Powers. Indeed, with Wilson gone and thus little hope of his moderating the terms, the Germans might have responded favorably to the officially unofficial approach made by René Massigli about France supporting milder terms in exchange for a Franco-German collaboration against the Anglo-Saxon powers. (Not likely, but not impossible.)

* Wilson was ill during Versailles and while it is generally believed it was due to the Spanish flu, it is not known for sure as like with his later stroke, Wilson kept information on his health private.

How would ratification change us foreign policy?

Not who you were responding to, but I'd have to think that there would've presumably been no significant changes. Ratifying Versailles - let alone a weaker Versailles - wouldn't have made the average American internationalist enough to support the participation of American troops abroad in order to prevent, say, Hitler's conquests of his territorial ambitions.
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brucejoel99
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,921
United States


Political Matrix
E: -3.48, S: -3.30


« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2021, 09:10:51 AM »


Assuming Wilson contracts the flu that kills him at the same point he probably contracted it real life*, then I can't see President Marshall heading to Versailles to replace Wilson at the head of the American delegation. So Secretary of State Lansing would be leading the American delegation there. Lansing was skeptical about the League of Nations, so it's possible that it wouldn't be included in the treaty and even if it were, it would be a weaker organization. In either case, it becomes more likely the eventual treaty is ratified by the United States Senate.

One side effect in either case is that the hypocrisy of the mandate system would be avoided and the former German and Ottoman territory that became mandates would instead be Allied colonies de jure instead of just de facto. It's hard to see how the terms could have been made much harsher against the Central Powers. Indeed, with Wilson gone and thus little hope of his moderating the terms, the Germans might have responded favorably to the officially unofficial approach made by René Massigli about France supporting milder terms in exchange for a Franco-German collaboration against the Anglo-Saxon powers. (Not likely, but not impossible.)

* Wilson was ill during Versailles and while it is generally believed it was due to the Spanish flu, it is not known for sure as like with his later stroke, Wilson kept information on his health private.

How would ratification change us foreign policy?

Not who you were responding to, but I'd have to think that there would've presumably been no significant changes. Ratifying Versailles - let alone a weaker Versailles - wouldn't have made the average American internationalist enough to support the participation of American troops abroad in order to prevent, say, Hitler's conquests of his territorial ambitions.

The us is now in the League of Nations.

And that doesn't change a single thing about what I said that you're replying to there.
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brucejoel99
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 16,921
United States


Political Matrix
E: -3.48, S: -3.30


« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2021, 08:40:59 PM »


Assuming Wilson contracts the flu that kills him at the same point he probably contracted it real life*, then I can't see President Marshall heading to Versailles to replace Wilson at the head of the American delegation. So Secretary of State Lansing would be leading the American delegation there. Lansing was skeptical about the League of Nations, so it's possible that it wouldn't be included in the treaty and even if it were, it would be a weaker organization. In either case, it becomes more likely the eventual treaty is ratified by the United States Senate.

One side effect in either case is that the hypocrisy of the mandate system would be avoided and the former German and Ottoman territory that became mandates would instead be Allied colonies de jure instead of just de facto. It's hard to see how the terms could have been made much harsher against the Central Powers. Indeed, with Wilson gone and thus little hope of his moderating the terms, the Germans might have responded favorably to the officially unofficial approach made by René Massigli about France supporting milder terms in exchange for a Franco-German collaboration against the Anglo-Saxon powers. (Not likely, but not impossible.)

* Wilson was ill during Versailles and while it is generally believed it was due to the Spanish flu, it is not known for sure as like with his later stroke, Wilson kept information on his health private.

How would ratification change us foreign policy?

Not who you were responding to, but I'd have to think that there would've presumably been no significant changes. Ratifying Versailles - let alone a weaker Versailles - wouldn't have made the average American internationalist enough to support the participation of American troops abroad in order to prevent, say, Hitler's conquests of his territorial ambitions.

The us is now in the League of Nations.

And that doesn't change a single thing about what I said that you're replying to there.

The League of Nations would be stronger with the USA as a member. This might delay world war 2.

(e_e)

bruh:

Not who you were responding to, but I'd have to think that there would've presumably been no significant changes. Ratifying Versailles - let alone a weaker Versailles - wouldn't have made the average American internationalist enough to support the participation of American troops abroad in order to prevent, say, Hitler's conquests of his territorial ambitions.
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