USA to sell Nuclear Subs to Australia

[Meclazine for Israel]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/australia-nuclear-submarines-us-uk-aukus/100466078

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/australia-us-uk-nuclear-option-china-morrison-biden/100466150

"Within a decade or so, the Royal Australian Navy's nuclear-powered submarine fleet will be a structural part of America's Indo-Pacific pivot.

Its main task will be to counter increased militarisation of the crowded and highly contested seas to Australia's north, west and east. "

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-16/why-australia-wants-nuclear-submarines/100466204

"Australia has announced the most significant change in its defence and strategic direction in decades – a plan to make the Navy's next submarine fleet nuclear-powered.

It means a $90 billion program to build 12 French-designed diesel-powered submarines will now be scrapped, prompting many to ask – why are we doing this? "

Bring on the nukes.

[CumbrianLefty]

Very obviously an anti-China thing.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Very obviously an anti-China thing.

Hilariously in practice its more anti-France than anti-China. Must be why Britain's so enthusiastically jumped aboard.

[Agonized-Statism]

Note that India is still conspicuously absent from this "Indo-Pacific" Asian NATO bs. I wonder what it's going to take to really get the Quad together, it'll be hard to contain China without flanking them in South Asia.

[The Free North]

Note that India is still conspicuously absent from this "Indo-Pacific" Asian NATO bs. I wonder what it's going to take to really get the Quad together, it'll be hard to contain China without flanking them in South Asia.

Given recent Chinese adventurism in Kashmir and the airtight alliance between China and Pakistan, I think India's diplomatic leanings are quite clear here. 

[rc18]

Very obviously an anti-China thing.

Hilariously in practice its more anti-France than anti-China. Must be why Britain's so enthusiastically jumped aboard.

Unlikely, when it comes to military matters the UK and France work relatively well together. Notice how most of the French ire is directed at the US.

From the initial reports it's hard to say specifically what they're envisioning. Some early reports talked of buying US submarines, but that seems really really unlikely. More likely it will be licensing of Royal Navy Astute-class tech, which includes a lot of tech the UK licenses from the US. So less direct tech transfer and more bringing Australia into the same arrangement the UK has had with the US. That would explain why the UK needed to be involved, though I'm sure Boris was happy to oblige!

Note that India is still conspicuously absent from this "Indo-Pacific" Asian NATO bs. I wonder what it's going to take to really get the Quad together, it'll be hard to contain China without flanking them in South Asia.

As I understand it India and Japan will conspicuously be present at the signing of the agreement in Washington.

[Agonized-Statism]

Given recent Chinese adventurism in Kashmir and the airtight alliance between China and Pakistan, I think India's diplomatic leanings are quite clear here.  

They aren't, and that's the problem. US support for Pakistan is a good barometer for this. The US has yet to declare Pakistan a state sponsor of terrorism and withdraw support fully because despite the things you mentioned, India is still committed to non-alignment. Theoretically Pakistan should be China-aligned and US-aligned, but both are still up in the air right now because India has yet to break its traditional aversion to geopolitics. If it was that obvious, the Quad would be more than a "dialogue" by now. Granted, that's where relations are headed, and the Basic Exchange and Cooperation Agreement was a big step in that direction. But the Cold War II map is still taking shape and to say that India is already a steadfast US ally is getting ahead of ourselves.

[Ferguson97]

Very obviously an anti-China thing.

Good.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://www.ft.com/content/6b7ec872-a8a8-4afa-975c-1d035b94a8f4
Paris and Brussels reel from Australia’s defence deal
Agreement is wake-up call for EU and France about their waning influence in post-cold war world

US president Joe Biden’s new strategic pact with Australia and the UK not only torpedoed a multibillion-dollar French deal to sell submarines to Canberra but also came as another brutal wake-up call for the EU and France about their waning influence in the post-cold war world.

The agreement announced on Wednesday has come at an intensely awkward moment for the EU, which on Thursday also formally announced its own Indo-Pacific strategy with particular focus on working with regional partners in the interest of security and defence.

As part of the new arms deal, Canberra will procure nuclear-powered submarines as the US and its allies confront an increasingly assertive China. The US, Australia and the UK are already part of the Five Eyes intelligence-sharing alliance that also includes Canada and New Zealand.

The decision by Australia to ditch France in favour of the US and UK follows America’s failure to consult its European allies on its Afghanistan withdrawal plan.

[...]

In Brussels, the fallout from the submarine deal overshadowed the announcement by Josep Borrell, head of the bloc’s diplomatic and security arm, of its new strategy to project more power in the Indo-Pacific.

“I was not aware . . . we were not involved,” Borrell said of the US-UK-Australia partnership. “And I assume an agreement of such a nature was not brought together overnight.”

[...]

Jean-Yves Le Drian, French foreign minister, described the decision as “really a stab in the back”.

“We built a relationship of trust with Australia and this trust was betrayed,” he told France Info radio.

LMAO, I thought, it was Orange Bad who should be anti-EU and pro-Brexit/pro-Anglosaxon.

French Golden Boy should step up EU on autonomy, when Merkel's gone.

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1438559590942220289

Lol the French can stay mad

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

Lmao, Biden really becomes, whom Democrats accused Trump to be.

Incompetence on FP - re:Afghanistan.
Rasism - re:not sharing vaccines with sh*thole poor countries.
Soft on Russia - re: Nord Stream 2.
Lets down EU - re:Afghanistan debacle and now this.

Will he break down NATO, hihihi? 

[Utah Neolib]

We should sell some military equipment to our allies, and that makes sense. Every country does that. I support this, Australia probably needs a more updated fleet.

[afleitch]

Subs? That's an odd name. I'd have called 'em chuzwozzers.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1438458620329476099
https://twitter.com/ianbremmer/status/1438459355012247558

Gee! Good!

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1438951742608117764

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/1438951742608117764

Lol what babies.

Why are they mad about this again?

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

France's anger implies they think the US should not sell Australia subs because it will lose France money. America has really been a doormat for too long.

[Lord Halifax]

Lol what babies.

Why are they mad about this again?

Because it costs them a major defence contract and was done without prior consultation. Not that hard to understand.

[urutzizu]

Back last december when the EU was in the final phases of negotiating CAI (Investment Agreement with China), the incoming Biden foreign policy team publicly and privately urged them to hold off until January to enable Biden admin and EU to draw up common approach to China. EU snubbed them, and Macron (who previously had been sceptical) was instrumental in getting it over the line, not least to try and display strategic autonomy.

France has a right to be jilted, but frankly when you have an administration with the most pro-france foreign policy chief one could possibly imagine (Blinken) doing this, then maybe some self-introspection would help too.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

Back last december when the EU was in the final phases of negotiating CAI (Investment Agreement with China), the incoming Biden foreign policy team publicly and privately urged them to hold off until January to enable Biden admin and EU to draw up common approach to China. EU snubbed them, and Macron (who previously had been sceptical) was instrumental in getting it over the line, not least to try and display strategic autonomy.

France has a right to be jilted, but frankly when you have an administration with the most pro-france foreign policy chief one could possibly imagine (Blinken) doing this, then maybe some self-introspection would help too.

I don't know, if it is comparable. Frank dialog vs cancelling a 100B hours before announcing a new one (allegedly? under the press of US, why would otherwise little Australia f**k with France?).

What did Blinken do in terms of pro-french FP?

[Crumpets]

Back last december when the EU was in the final phases of negotiating CAI (Investment Agreement with China), the incoming Biden foreign policy team publicly and privately urged them to hold off until January to enable Biden admin and EU to draw up common approach to China. EU snubbed them, and Macron (who previously had been sceptical) was instrumental in getting it over the line, not least to try and display strategic autonomy.

France has a right to be jilted, but frankly when you have an administration with the most pro-france foreign policy chief one could possibly imagine (Blinken) doing this, then maybe some self-introspection would help too.

I don't know, if it is comparable. Frank dialog vs cancelling a 100B hours before announcing a new one (allegedly? under the press of US, why would otherwise little Australia f**k with France?).

What did Blinken do in terms of pro-french FP?

I'm not sure if this is what urutzizu was referring to exactly, but Blinken lived in France when he was young and speaks fluent French.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

Yeah, I know that, but I don't really understand how it translates in a pro-France FP.









https://twitter.com/John_Hudson/status/1438966850910629893

Hehe, mad Frenches are lovely.

[Meclazine for Israel]

Hehe, mad Frenches are lovely.

So individualistic in the selfish behaviour.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-18/france-withdraws-ambassadors-over-submarines-deal/100473106

World's biggest spoilt brats who rate themselves way higher than their batting average.

[dead0man]

I guess I don't understand why they're so mad at the Anglos when it was their own industries that dropped the ball so bad that it lead to this.  If you need a fence, and I promise my son will build you a fence and he never does (and says it's going to cost a lot more than the contract says if he ever gets around to it) and you go find a new fence builder, how could I possibly get mad at you?


The French sub builders failed everyone and if the French want to flex their meager muscle, they should do it at themselves.

[WMS]

What an outstanding strategic move by Biden. As is evident from the histrionic reactions both on the forum and off it by the usual suspects.