Will SCOUS recognize fine from vaccine mandate as tax?
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  Will SCOUS recognize fine from vaccine mandate as tax?
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Author Topic: Will SCOUS recognize fine from vaccine mandate as tax?  (Read 457 times)
David Hume
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« on: September 11, 2021, 05:47:48 PM »
« edited: September 11, 2021, 06:15:13 PM by David Hume »

Say Dems pass a law through reconciliation that fines companies over 100 employees for not taking vaccine. It will end up at SC. Will Roberts and Kavanaugh consider it as a tax for the company?
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Donerail
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« Reply #1 on: September 11, 2021, 05:53:19 PM »

what are you talking about?
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David Hume
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« Reply #2 on: September 11, 2021, 06:14:30 PM »

Say Dems pass a law through reconciliation that fine companies over 100 employees for not taking vaccine. It will end up at SC. Will Roberts and Kavanaugh consider it as a tax for the company?
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Donerail
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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2021, 06:35:32 PM »

Why would your hypothetical fine be considered a tax?
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2021, 06:37:51 PM »

While he failed to provide the needed context, it's fairly clear he's asking whether Biden's vaccine mandate will be upheld in the same manner as the ACA's health insurance mandate.

First off, he didn't impose vaccine mandates on State or local governments, so frankly Republican AGs and Governors won't have standing to use, as they did concerning Medicaid expansion. There likely will be some affected employer that does have standing, but the grandstanding Republican politicians will have to make do with filing amicus briefs in such suits rather than arguing the case themselves.

Second, the "is it a tax" argument in NFIB v. Sebelius was only needed because of the finding that the health insurance mandate was not a proper use of the Commerce Clause. Since the mandate only applies to health care providers accepting Medicare or Medicaid and to large employers, I don't see where it gets to the point where the "is it a tax" argument even has to be considered.

However, if by some chance a challenge to the vaccine mandate gets to the "is it a tax" argument, the vaccine mandate probably fails. Congress has to levy a tax and I doubt the provision of law Biden is using would likely be seen as a tax.

Say Dems pass a law through reconciliation that fine companies over 100 employees for not taking vaccine. It will end up at SC. Will Roberts and Kavanaugh consider it as a tax for the company?

If Congress were to reinforce the vaccine mandate with legislation providing for a fine with noncompliance, then it probably passes the "is it tax" argument. I see no reason to believe the court desires to either revisit or call into question NFIB. However, as I stated earlier, this vaccine mandate has a much better chance of being seen as a proper use of Commerce Clause authority since it isn't an individual mandate as the health insurance mandate was.
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libertpaulian
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« Reply #5 on: September 11, 2021, 06:41:20 PM »

I remember reading in Chief Justice Roberts' Obamacare opinion that the mandate was upheld as a tax because the IRS was collecting it, and the money from the mandate would go towards revenue. I don't think that's the case with the vaxx fine.
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Buffalo Mayor Young Kim
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« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2021, 06:01:03 PM »

Vaccine mandates don’t need to differentiated, it’s been established as a thing the federal government can do for over a century.
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Tintrlvr
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« Reply #7 on: September 14, 2021, 08:58:25 PM »
« Edited: September 14, 2021, 09:03:15 PM by Tintrlvr »

It doesn't matter. The vaccine mandate is a matter of workplace safety passed through OSHA, which is authorized as part of Congress's authority to regulate interstate commerce. Health insurance is (apparently) not interstate commerce, but that's neither here nor there; workplace safety (for employers of sufficient size/economic significance) is interstate commerce. There's no way for the Court to strike down the mandate on authority grounds without striking down all of OSHA as an institution, which they are deeply unlikely to do.

To the extent the Court wanted to attack the mandate, they'd have to go after it from a regulatory state perspective and find something arbitrary and capricious about its enactment. Personally, I think this is also a tough row to hoe, but the arbitrary and capricious standard is often applied by courts in a way that is, well, arbitrary and capricious, so it's at least not possible to say for total certain.
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Torie
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« Reply #8 on: September 24, 2021, 08:35:48 AM »

Excellent responses here by the two of you. Well done indeed.
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