Is unmarried celibacy the preferred way of life to Jesus and Paul?
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 25, 2024, 05:12:50 PM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  General Discussion
  Religion & Philosophy (Moderator: Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.)
  Is unmarried celibacy the preferred way of life to Jesus and Paul?
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: Is unmarried celibacy the preferred way of life to Jesus and Paul?  (Read 421 times)
The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,282
Norway


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.48

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: September 10, 2021, 08:25:11 PM »

Contrary to Dan Brown-esque fanatical ideas of Jesus being married or having children, when there is absolutely no evidence that he was either in the Gospels or in Paul's writings, Jesus arguably takes a hostile view of marriage himself, directly saying there will be no marriage in the Kingdom of God to come (Mark 12:25). Marriage is proposed as a totally acceptable option, but Paul believes that celibacy is best one (1 Corinthians 7).

This would contradict the "be fruitful and multiply" attitude that's predominant in mainstream Christianity, particularly in Protestant circles where religious leaders have families (obviously because they are allowed to) and in some cases promote marriage as opposed to celibacy, directly contradicting the attitude Jesus and Paul had towards marriage. (This has been my experience on various occasions, at least.)

Why did the two largest living figures in Christianity take such a different approach to marriage than the vast majority of its followers? Was lifelong celibacy intended to be the "default" choice to Jesus and Paul, taking precedence even over marriage and parenthood?
Logged
Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
olawakandi
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 88,702
Jamaica
Political Matrix
E: -6.84, S: -0.17


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2021, 08:38:35 PM »

Hate to tell you this Jesus wasn't celibate, he traveled with Mary Magdalene and they found an Ossuary Box in the tomb of James and Jesus


Pastors don't talk about this because there were no last names but Jesus might have had a kid with her as well
Logged
The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
Atlas Legend
*****
Posts: 45,282
Norway


Political Matrix
E: -6.32, S: -7.48

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2021, 08:49:47 PM »
« Edited: September 11, 2021, 09:44:01 PM by Senator Scott, PPT »

Hate to tell you this Jesus wasn't celibate, he traveled with Mary Magdalene and they found an Ossuary Box in the tomb of James and Jesus


Pastors don't talk about this because there were no last names but Jesus might have had a kid with her as well

Mary Magdalene was not his wife. If Jesus was married to her or anyone else then that's a considerable oversight considering that even Jesus's brothers and sisters are mentioned directly (Mark 6:3, Matthew 13:55-56) but his own wife and kids conveniently are not?
Logged
afleitch
Moderators
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,858


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2021, 06:28:23 AM »

Hate to tell you this Jesus wasn't celibate, he traveled with Mary Magdalene and they found an Ossuary Box in the tomb of James and Jesus


Pastors don't talk about this because there were no last names but Jesus might have had a kid with her as well

Mary Magdalene was not his wife. If Jesus was married to her or anyone else then that's a considerable oversight considering that even Jesus' brothers and sisters are mentioned directly (Mark 6:3, Matthew 13:55-56) but his own wife and kids conveniently are not?

While I don't believe Jesus had a wife or children, there's a difference between being mentioned in the NT and being omitted from it.
Logged
Georg Ebner
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 410
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2021, 10:20:17 AM »

Contrary to Dan Brown-esque fanatical ideas of Jesus being married or having children, when there is absolutely no evidence that he was either in the Gospels or in Paul's writings, Jesus arguably takes a hostile view of marriage himself, directly saying there will be no marriage in the Kingdom of God to come (Mark 12:25). Marriage is proposed as a totally acceptable option, but Paul believes that celibacy is best one (1 Corinthians 7).

This would contradict the "be fruitful and multiply" attitude that's predominant in mainstream Christianity, particularly in Protestant circles where religious leaders have families (obviously because they are allowed to) and in some cases promote marriage as opposed to celibacy, directly contradicting the attitude Jesus and Paul had towards marriage. (This has been my experience on various occasions, at least.)

Why did the two largest living figures in Christianity take such a different approach to marriage than the vast majority of its followers? Was lifelong celibacy intended to be the "default" choice to Jesus and Paul, taking precedence even over marriage and parenthood?
Why speaking of "contradictions"? You Yourself quoted St.PAUL: Marriage is good, celibacy is better. Who is able to, should do it. By the way also found outside Christianity: The marriage of priests has been seen with some shame in the pagan world, too. Or history's great men, who have usually been married (at least de facto) with their mission as poet, painter, StatesMan.
Logged
Statilius the Epicurean
Thersites
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,608
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2021, 10:53:46 AM »
« Edited: September 12, 2021, 11:11:59 AM by Statilius the Epicurean »

Why did the two largest living figures in Christianity take such a different approach to marriage than the vast majority of its followers? Was lifelong celibacy intended to be the "default" choice to Jesus and Paul, taking precedence even over marriage and parenthood?

Asceticism in general seems to have been on the upswing in the 1st century: in Jewish circles there were the Thereputae, the Essenes and whatever the Qumran community was, and there was an ongoing Cynic revival in the Greek world.

The most interesting and direct passage about celibacy in the New Testament is in Luke 20:

Quote
Jesus said to them, “Those who belong to this age marry and are given in marriage; but those who are considered worthy of a place in that age and in the resurrection from the dead neither marry nor are given in marriage. Indeed they cannot die anymore, because they are like angels and are children of God, being children of the resurrection.

which seems straightforwardly to say that marriage makes one unworthy of resurrection. It's especially interesting compared to the same pericope in Mark 12 and Matthew 22, where Jesus tells the Sadducees that only after the resurrection they will be like the angels who are not married in heaven.
Logged
RFayette
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,959
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2021, 11:01:51 AM »

I don't think Paul ever intended for celibacy to be the route for the majority of Christians to take.  In 1 Corinthians 7:7 he talks about singleness being a gift God gives to some but not others.  So I think already he is recognizing that even though singleness is a major gift that it is probably not meant for the majority of Christians.

I think you are reading too much into Mark 12.  I know some use that and especially Luke 20 to argue that Jesus was against marriage itself, but this is plainly inconsistent with his prohibitions on divorce where he points out that in marriage God joins two people together.  I think this is just recognizing the world to come will be different in many ways than our own. 
Logged
Okay, maybe Mike Johnson is a competent parliamentarian.
Nathan
Moderator
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 34,416


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2021, 12:03:22 PM »

I don't think Paul ever intended for celibacy to be the route for the majority of Christians to take.  In 1 Corinthians 7:7 he talks about singleness being a gift God gives to some but not others.  So I think already he is recognizing that even though singleness is a major gift that it is probably not meant for the majority of Christians.

To be fair to Scott's original point, this is still in contradiction to the common Protestant sensibility that if you don't get married and have kids there's something wrong with you--a sensibility that conveniently matches the norms of mainstream culture just fine even today.
Logged
Statilius the Epicurean
Thersites
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,608
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2021, 12:32:27 PM »

I think you are reading too much into Mark 12.  I know some use that and especially Luke 20 to argue that Jesus was against marriage itself, but this is plainly inconsistent with his prohibitions on divorce where he points out that in marriage God joins two people together.  I think this is just recognizing the world to come will be different in many ways than our own. 

What adds more weight to this Lucan peculiarity on marriage is that Luke skips over the pericope in Mark and Matthew that contains the prohibition of divorce.
Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.03 seconds with 12 queries.