Why does Reddit seem to not really believe in "cultural Catholicism"?

[they don't love you like i love you]

Something I kind of noticed, in stark contrast to here.

On progressive Christian subreddits: Basically doesn't exist. If anyone expresses discontent with Catholicism they immediately get told they should just convert to Episcopalianism, there's even memes about that. No one ever brings up the "cultural" aspects or whatever or thinks it's strange if someone makes a full break from it.

On r/Catholicism: Basically exclusively hard right trads, no purely "cultural" people or anyone remotely liberal at all.

On r/Christianity, (probably the "centrist" place): Also doesn't really exist. The Catholics there still tend to be very conservative and if any more liberal people express discontent then the Episcopalians and other mainline church members come in and promote their own and ask them if they've thought about converting, and a lot of those members are openly converts from Catholicism themselves. No one finds this unusual or some sort of deviation from "how things work."

On secular and atheist spaces: duh, do I even need to explain? Pure 100% neckbeard atheism, no respect for any type of religious institution or cultural ties in any way whatsoever.

On general progressive and "social justice" oriented spaces: Basically a combination of the progressive Christian spaces and atheist ones, either they say you should convert to Episcopalian or another liberal church or that all religion is nonsense anyway, etc. No one ever defends Catholicism from a "cultural" perspective or makes the frankly bizarre in my view argument (that I've actually never seen anywhere except here come to think of it) that converting away from Catholicism is somehow inherently non-progressive.

And I know that Reddit has various stereotypes about it and not a very diverse user base but that's also true of here...and as a much bigger site I'm kind of surprised to almost never see this mentioned or bought up while here it's often assumed to be "the rule" and some people view that type of free conversion as really weird.

[World politics is up Schmitt creek]

It's Reddit. It's an ideologically diverse site but its core constituency is California Ideology turboliberals in the same way that Tumblr's is woke intersectionalists and Facebook's is--these days--aggrieved Trumpist boomers. Add that to the fact that cultural identification with religions you don't actually practice is much weaker among younger people in the first place and the fact that Crusader-LARPer lunatics have successfully crowded normal Catholics out of lots of online spaces despite being a vocal minority in real life and you have the situation you're describing.

[afleitch]

I'm now voting 'yes' on 'is the universe a simulation' in response to this thread.

[they don't love you like i love you]

It's Reddit. It's an ideologically diverse site but its core constituency is California Ideology turboliberals in the same way that Tumblr's is woke intersectionalists and Facebook's is--these days--aggrieved Trumpist boomers. Add that to the fact that cultural identification with religions you don't actually practice is much weaker among younger people in the first place and the fact that Crusader-LARPer lunatics have successfully crowded normal Catholics out of lots of online spaces despite being a vocal minority in real life and you have the situation you're describing.

Funny thing is I don't really think of it that way but that's probably because the majority of my browsing there at all is either on r/emo or r/feet.

[1978 New Wave skinny trousers]

Something I kind of noticed, in stark contrast to here.

On progressive Christian subreddits: Basically doesn't exist. If anyone expresses discontent with Catholicism they immediately get told they should just convert to Episcopalianism, there's even memes about that. No one ever brings up the "cultural" aspects or whatever or thinks it's strange if someone makes a full break from it.

On r/Catholicism: Basically exclusively hard right trads, no purely "cultural" people or anyone remotely liberal at all.

On r/Christianity, (probably the "centrist" place): Also doesn't really exist. The Catholics there still tend to be very conservative and if any more liberal people express discontent then the Episcopalians and other mainline church members come in and promote their own and ask them if they've thought about converting, and a lot of those members are openly converts from Catholicism themselves. No one finds this unusual or some sort of deviation from "how things work."

On secular and atheist spaces: duh, do I even need to explain? Pure 100% neckbeard atheism, no respect for any type of religious institution or cultural ties in any way whatsoever.

On general progressive and "social justice" oriented spaces: Basically a combination of the progressive Christian spaces and atheist ones, either they say you should convert to Episcopalian or another liberal church or that all religion is nonsense anyway, etc. No one ever defends Catholicism from a "cultural" perspective or makes the frankly bizarre in my view argument (that I've actually never seen anywhere except here come to think of it) that converting away from Catholicism is somehow inherently non-progressive.

And I know that Reddit has various stereotypes about it and not a very diverse user base but that's also true of here...and as a much bigger site I'm kind of surprised to almost never see this mentioned or bought up while here it's often assumed to be "the rule" and some people view that type of free conversion as really weird.

Are you saying that people on here have argued that abandoning Catholicism is somehow a conservative action? What a bizarre argument indeed. Regarding "cultural Catholicism", if that means enjoying things like Catholic music/art/architecture then I'm actually somewhat of a cultural Catholic myself, but I see that as a conservative tendency on my part and I don't see anything remotely progressive in traditional Catholic culture or aesthetic. In fact, that's largely why I like it, as in my view the Baroque was the peak of European arts and culture before it entered an irreversible decline in the 19th century with the coming of modern art.

[If my soul was made of stone]

Everyone's responses in this thread have been remarkably predictable.

I think that being "culturally" part of a religion is very alien to most people of my age or younger, with the rise of the sort of New Atheism that raised me denying the value of religious culture. Sometimes I wish that I could've inherited more of my father's Methodist trappings or my mother's Maryland Catholic culture, but they purged those characteristics in knee-jerk early adulthood and I was raised in a very intellectually and culturally lacking landscape (now that I belong to a heavily Catholic social group, however, I suppose that I have partially made up for that). It's a negative reflection on the power of mass society and new media to both create homogeneity and atomization that these cultural aspects of religion have become less salient in place of a mass-marketed youth monoculture that places people entirely in the same context yet makes it harder for them to relate within small, closely-knit groups. The effect of this order on me is much of why I've become so devoutly religious (although as a solitary, eclectic practitioner I'm a bit limited in the social aspect among coreligionists) and convinced of the superiority of smaller-scale, tribal societies.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

I am not reading this thread but judging by the title referencing "cultural Catholicism" I preemptively disagree with BRTD and HenryWallaceVP, agree with Nathan and discovolante, and have a complicated view of afleitch's comment [well, actually, I read that one and it is pretty hilarious, I like it].

[Former President tack50]

Something I kind of noticed, in stark contrast to here.

On progressive Christian subreddits: Basically doesn't exist. If anyone expresses discontent with Catholicism they immediately get told they should just convert to Episcopalianism, there's even memes about that. No one ever brings up the "cultural" aspects or whatever or thinks it's strange if someone makes a full break from it.

On r/Catholicism: Basically exclusively hard right trads, no purely "cultural" people or anyone remotely liberal at all.

On r/Christianity, (probably the "centrist" place): Also doesn't really exist. The Catholics there still tend to be very conservative and if any more liberal people express discontent then the Episcopalians and other mainline church members come in and promote their own and ask them if they've thought about converting, and a lot of those members are openly converts from Catholicism themselves. No one finds this unusual or some sort of deviation from "how things work."

On secular and atheist spaces: duh, do I even need to explain? Pure 100% neckbeard atheism, no respect for any type of religious institution or cultural ties in any way whatsoever.

On general progressive and "social justice" oriented spaces: Basically a combination of the progressive Christian spaces and atheist ones, either they say you should convert to Episcopalian or another liberal church or that all religion is nonsense anyway, etc. No one ever defends Catholicism from a "cultural" perspective or makes the frankly bizarre in my view argument (that I've actually never seen anywhere except here come to think of it) that converting away from Catholicism is somehow inherently non-progressive.

And I know that Reddit has various stereotypes about it and not a very diverse user base but that's also true of here...and as a much bigger site I'm kind of surprised to almost never see this mentioned or bought up while here it's often assumed to be "the rule" and some people view that type of free conversion as really weird.

How is it bizarre at all?

Catholicism is a religion generally practiced by POC in Latin America and Africa; and led by a POC itself (Pope Jorge Mario Bergoglio). Trying to convert someone away from catholicism is therefore POC religious erasure and demonstrates a deep belief into white supremacy. Redditors should check their priviledge, and those Christian subreddits you mention should be banned for demonstrating white imperialism vs Catholic POC.

[Donerail]

Being raised Catholic and joining the Episcopal Church is extremely culturally Catholic

[they don't love you like i love you]

Something I kind of noticed, in stark contrast to here.

On progressive Christian subreddits: Basically doesn't exist. If anyone expresses discontent with Catholicism they immediately get told they should just convert to Episcopalianism, there's even memes about that. No one ever brings up the "cultural" aspects or whatever or thinks it's strange if someone makes a full break from it.

On r/Catholicism: Basically exclusively hard right trads, no purely "cultural" people or anyone remotely liberal at all.

On r/Christianity, (probably the "centrist" place): Also doesn't really exist. The Catholics there still tend to be very conservative and if any more liberal people express discontent then the Episcopalians and other mainline church members come in and promote their own and ask them if they've thought about converting, and a lot of those members are openly converts from Catholicism themselves. No one finds this unusual or some sort of deviation from "how things work."

On secular and atheist spaces: duh, do I even need to explain? Pure 100% neckbeard atheism, no respect for any type of religious institution or cultural ties in any way whatsoever.

On general progressive and "social justice" oriented spaces: Basically a combination of the progressive Christian spaces and atheist ones, either they say you should convert to Episcopalian or another liberal church or that all religion is nonsense anyway, etc. No one ever defends Catholicism from a "cultural" perspective or makes the frankly bizarre in my view argument (that I've actually never seen anywhere except here come to think of it) that converting away from Catholicism is somehow inherently non-progressive.

And I know that Reddit has various stereotypes about it and not a very diverse user base but that's also true of here...and as a much bigger site I'm kind of surprised to almost never see this mentioned or bought up while here it's often assumed to be "the rule" and some people view that type of free conversion as really weird.

How is it bizarre at all?

Catholicism is a religion generally practiced by POC in Latin America and Africa; and led by a POC itself (Pope Jorge Mario Bergoglio). Trying to convert someone away from catholicism is therefore POC religious erasure and demonstrates a deep belief into white supremacy. Redditors should check their priviledge, and those Christian subreddits you mention should be banned for demonstrating white imperialism vs Catholic POC.

Uh Argentina is the whitest country in the Western Hemisphere and the Pope is clearly a white guy.

Also no one actually thinks that way since woke people care more about the Catholic church being sexist and anti-LGBT.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Everyone's responses in this thread have been remarkably predictable.

I think that being "culturally" part of a religion is very alien to most people of my age or younger, with the rise of the sort of New Atheism that raised me denying the value of religious culture. Sometimes I wish that I could've inherited more of my father's Methodist trappings or my mother's Maryland Catholic culture, but they purged those characteristics in knee-jerk early adulthood and I was raised in a very intellectually and culturally lacking landscape (now that I belong to a heavily Catholic social group, however, I suppose that I have partially made up for that). It's a negative reflection on the power of mass society and new media to both create homogeneity and atomization that these cultural aspects of religion have become less salient in place of a mass-marketed youth monoculture that places people entirely in the same context yet makes it harder for them to relate within small, closely-knit groups. The effect of this order on me is much of why I've become so devoutly religious (although as a solitary, eclectic practitioner I'm a bit limited in the social aspect among coreligionists) and convinced of the superiority of smaller-scale, tribal societies.

I don't see that as a problem since we just get involved in different small close-knit groups that aren't based around an an incredibly patriarchal and heterosexist institution. The most obvious example for me is my music subculture. There's similar examples for many Millennials.

[If my soul was made of stone]

Everyone's responses in this thread have been remarkably predictable.

I think that being "culturally" part of a religion is very alien to most people of my age or younger, with the rise of the sort of New Atheism that raised me denying the value of religious culture. Sometimes I wish that I could've inherited more of my father's Methodist trappings or my mother's Maryland Catholic culture, but they purged those characteristics in knee-jerk early adulthood and I was raised in a very intellectually and culturally lacking landscape (now that I belong to a heavily Catholic social group, however, I suppose that I have partially made up for that). It's a negative reflection on the power of mass society and new media to both create homogeneity and atomization that these cultural aspects of religion have become less salient in place of a mass-marketed youth monoculture that places people entirely in the same context yet makes it harder for them to relate within small, closely-knit groups. The effect of this order on me is much of why I've become so devoutly religious (although as a solitary, eclectic practitioner I'm a bit limited in the social aspect among coreligionists) and convinced of the superiority of smaller-scale, tribal societies.

I don't see that as a problem since we just get involved in different small close-knit groups that aren't based around an an incredibly patriarchal and heterosexist institution. The most obvious example for me is my music subculture. There's similar examples for many Millennials.

Most subcultures are unfortunately very "patriarchal and heterosexist", and it seems like your musical ivory tower and probably your church aren't immune either. The fundamental character of humanity doesn't change in modern social organizations; any interest group will have its share of awful people and its share of excellent people. I personally feel that other means of social organization might fix this, but of course I can't know for sure. It's pretty clear that you have far more interest in just universalizing your own principles than understanding anyone else's.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Everyone's responses in this thread have been remarkably predictable.

I think that being "culturally" part of a religion is very alien to most people of my age or younger, with the rise of the sort of New Atheism that raised me denying the value of religious culture. Sometimes I wish that I could've inherited more of my father's Methodist trappings or my mother's Maryland Catholic culture, but they purged those characteristics in knee-jerk early adulthood and I was raised in a very intellectually and culturally lacking landscape (now that I belong to a heavily Catholic social group, however, I suppose that I have partially made up for that). It's a negative reflection on the power of mass society and new media to both create homogeneity and atomization that these cultural aspects of religion have become less salient in place of a mass-marketed youth monoculture that places people entirely in the same context yet makes it harder for them to relate within small, closely-knit groups. The effect of this order on me is much of why I've become so devoutly religious (although as a solitary, eclectic practitioner I'm a bit limited in the social aspect among coreligionists) and convinced of the superiority of smaller-scale, tribal societies.

I don't see that as a problem since we just get involved in different small close-knit groups that aren't based around an an incredibly patriarchal and heterosexist institution. The most obvious example for me is my music subculture. There's similar examples for many Millennials.

Most subcultures are unfortunately very "patriarchal and heterosexist", and it seems like your musical ivory tower and probably your church aren't immune either. The fundamental character of humanity doesn't change in modern social organizations; any interest group will have its share of awful people and its share of excellent people. I personally feel that other means of social organization might fix this, but of course I can't know for sure. It's pretty clear that you have far more interest in just universalizing your own principles than understanding anyone else's.

Something that spawned riot grrl and a church that has had multiple female pastors and a female majority on its governing board obviously isn't on the level of an institution that effectively bans women from any leadership roles.

[If my soul was made of stone]

Everyone's responses in this thread have been remarkably predictable.

I think that being "culturally" part of a religion is very alien to most people of my age or younger, with the rise of the sort of New Atheism that raised me denying the value of religious culture. Sometimes I wish that I could've inherited more of my father's Methodist trappings or my mother's Maryland Catholic culture, but they purged those characteristics in knee-jerk early adulthood and I was raised in a very intellectually and culturally lacking landscape (now that I belong to a heavily Catholic social group, however, I suppose that I have partially made up for that). It's a negative reflection on the power of mass society and new media to both create homogeneity and atomization that these cultural aspects of religion have become less salient in place of a mass-marketed youth monoculture that places people entirely in the same context yet makes it harder for them to relate within small, closely-knit groups. The effect of this order on me is much of why I've become so devoutly religious (although as a solitary, eclectic practitioner I'm a bit limited in the social aspect among coreligionists) and convinced of the superiority of smaller-scale, tribal societies.

I don't see that as a problem since we just get involved in different small close-knit groups that aren't based around an an incredibly patriarchal and heterosexist institution. The most obvious example for me is my music subculture. There's similar examples for many Millennials.

Most subcultures are unfortunately very "patriarchal and heterosexist", and it seems like your musical ivory tower and probably your church aren't immune either. The fundamental character of humanity doesn't change in modern social organizations; any interest group will have its share of awful people and its share of excellent people. I personally feel that other means of social organization might fix this, but of course I can't know for sure. It's pretty clear that you have far more interest in just universalizing your own principles than understanding anyone else's.

Something that spawned riot grrl and a church that has had multiple female pastors and a female majority on its governing board obviously isn't on the level of an institution that effectively bans women from any leadership roles.

Riot grrrl happened because women felt under-represented and discriminated against in the punk scene, not supported by it, you dolt.

[they don't love you like i love you]

Everyone's responses in this thread have been remarkably predictable.

I think that being "culturally" part of a religion is very alien to most people of my age or younger, with the rise of the sort of New Atheism that raised me denying the value of religious culture. Sometimes I wish that I could've inherited more of my father's Methodist trappings or my mother's Maryland Catholic culture, but they purged those characteristics in knee-jerk early adulthood and I was raised in a very intellectually and culturally lacking landscape (now that I belong to a heavily Catholic social group, however, I suppose that I have partially made up for that). It's a negative reflection on the power of mass society and new media to both create homogeneity and atomization that these cultural aspects of religion have become less salient in place of a mass-marketed youth monoculture that places people entirely in the same context yet makes it harder for them to relate within small, closely-knit groups. The effect of this order on me is much of why I've become so devoutly religious (although as a solitary, eclectic practitioner I'm a bit limited in the social aspect among coreligionists) and convinced of the superiority of smaller-scale, tribal societies.

I don't see that as a problem since we just get involved in different small close-knit groups that aren't based around an an incredibly patriarchal and heterosexist institution. The most obvious example for me is my music subculture. There's similar examples for many Millennials.

Most subcultures are unfortunately very "patriarchal and heterosexist", and it seems like your musical ivory tower and probably your church aren't immune either. The fundamental character of humanity doesn't change in modern social organizations; any interest group will have its share of awful people and its share of excellent people. I personally feel that other means of social organization might fix this, but of course I can't know for sure. It's pretty clear that you have far more interest in just universalizing your own principles than understanding anyone else's.

Something that spawned riot grrl and a church that has had multiple female pastors and a female majority on its governing board obviously isn't on the level of an institution that effectively bans women from any leadership roles.

Riot grrrl happened because women felt under-represented and discriminated against in the punk scene, not supported by it, you dolt.

And that was well before my time. Things changed after it. Were they rejected and banned from shows and labels and treated like any attempt to ordain women in Catholicism would be?

Come on you seriously are arguing that the level of patriarchy and sexism in my music scene and church is exactly the same as the Catholic church?

Beyond that though there's another point: the freedom of choice. Having your subculture and close-knit group be just an accident of birth and something you have zero control over is to my mind frankly f[inks]ing horrifying.

[Kahane's Grave Is A Gender-Neutral Bathroom]

Because Reddit is a slightly less incel-ridden 4Chan

[LabourJersey]

Being raised Catholic and joining the Episcopal Church is extremely culturally Catholic

Honestly this is very true, especially if one joins a very high-church Episcopal parish.

And getting back to BRTD's point: the demographics of religious redditors/people who post on those subs are an inaccurate reflection of how religious people generally are/believe

[CEO Mindset]

why do you go on reddit for any reason besides finding pirated content?

[All Along The Watchtower]

California Ideology turboliberals

But enough about my region.

[they don't love you like i love you]

why do you go on reddit for any reason besides finding pirated content?

1-It's the closest thing that exists to old style Internet forums like this this one amongst major Internet sites, and that's my preferred method of Internet communication.

2-It's probably all things considered currently the LEAST toxic social media site, which says way more about the others than it of course....but seriously in comparison to Facebook, Twitter and TikTok it's a breath of fresh air.

3-It's the best place on the Internet for localized content, finding out information about a specific city, things like restaurant recommendations, etc.

4-It's probably the best place on the Internet for netroots-style Democratic politics and activism, now that Democratic Underground and DailyKos have gone to sh!t andhow much of a cesspool that corner of Twitter is simply by virtue of being part of Twitter.

5-The progressive Christian community on it is great, the music subs of genres I like are usually good and r/feet is absolutely fantastic.

[CEO Mindset]

Reddit is psychotic to the point of making here look mellow and relaxed in comparison. Twitter is worse but of the big sites reddit is #2 in being filled with evil gremlins.