Since 1968, did each loser come off as more elitist?
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  Since 1968, did each loser come off as more elitist?
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Author Topic: Since 1968, did each loser come off as more elitist?  (Read 1332 times)
President Johnson
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« on: August 23, 2021, 02:34:34 PM »

Maybe there's an exception to make for 1988 and maybe 2020, but I feel like each presidential loser since at least 1968 came off as more "elitist" than the ultimate winner. Would you say this notion true?
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Computer89
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« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2021, 02:38:51 PM »

1988 was definitely the exception, and you can even make an argument for 1980 as Carter really never came of as elitist
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President Johnson
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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2021, 02:55:13 PM »

1988 was definitely the exception, and you can even make an argument for 1980 as Carter really never came of as elitist

That's true for 1980, though Reagan didn't either and like Carter four years earlier, he ran as some kind of outsider.

1988 could have been different if the Democrats didn't nominate a weak candidate who ran an incomptent campaign.
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Computer89
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« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2021, 03:09:10 PM »

1988 was definitely the exception, and you can even make an argument for 1980 as Carter really never came of as elitist

That's true for 1980, though Reagan didn't either and like Carter four years earlier, he ran as some kind of outsider.

1988 could have been different if the Democrats didn't nominate a weak candidate who ran an incomptent campaign.

I think a Dem could have gotten 200 EV in 1988 but its hard for me to see them win in 1988 given fundamentals. In 2000 Gore would have won if he like HW Bush embraced the popular president he served under instead of running away from Clinton.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2021, 06:00:39 PM »

1968, 1980, 1988, 2020 and arguably 2000 and 1984 buck this “trend”
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Asenath Waite
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« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2021, 06:10:10 PM »

Yes with the exception of 88. I would include 2020. Despite his brand I think that Trump in practice did come off as less relatable then Biden.
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Progressive Pessimist
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« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2021, 06:22:49 PM »

Was Humphrey, a huge union and working class supporter, really seen as more elite than Nixon? Was it due more to racial views, if so?

Other than that, I suppose there is a connection. Though 2016 and 2020 are more difficult to classify since the definition of "elite" lost all meaning by then.
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Asenath Waite
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« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2021, 07:20:33 PM »

Was Humphrey, a huge union and working class supporter, really seen as more elite than Nixon? Was it due more to racial views, if so?

Other than that, I suppose there is a connection. Though 2016 and 2020 are more difficult to classify since the definition of "elite" lost all meaning by then.

Nixon was also a coward who refused to debate Humphrey so I think that election might be hard to classify.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #8 on: August 23, 2021, 10:08:19 PM »

1984 shouldn’t even count … neither was elitist, and neither really even needed to be there.
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jfern
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« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2021, 10:13:59 PM »

The loser has usually been the more wooden candidate, but that wasn't true in 2008 and 2020.
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darklordoftech
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« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2021, 10:27:09 PM »

https://www.nytimes.com/1988/06/10/us/bush-paints-rival-as-elitist-with-harvard-yard-views.html
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Vice President Christian Man
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« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2021, 11:27:59 PM »
« Edited: August 24, 2021, 12:05:18 AM by Soc. Dem Paleocon »

I think Wallace, McGovern, Carter (in '80), Mondale, Dukakis and Trump (in '20) were not elitists. While Trump had money, I think Trump was the only loser to actively run against the establishment/elite besides Wallace, although Nixon somewhat attacked them during his '72 run.
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TheElectoralBoobyPrize
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« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2021, 09:24:48 PM »

No one's mentioned 1996 as an exception...
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Mr. Smith
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« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2021, 09:41:42 PM »

The loser has usually been the more wooden candidate, but that wasn't true in 2008 and 2020.

Wooden =/= elitist/"out of touch"

Also lol @ Obama being more wooden than McCain.
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2021, 07:28:49 AM »


Bill Clinton did not come across as more elitist than Bob Dole.
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TheElectoralBoobyPrize
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« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2021, 08:35:00 AM »


Bill Clinton did not come across as more elitist than Bob Dole.

I guess I was defining elitist as “Ivy League education”. Clinton had one, and Dole didn’t…
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RINO Tom
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« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2021, 02:29:40 PM »


Bill Clinton did not come across as more elitist than Bob Dole.

I guess I was defining elitist as “Ivy League education”. Clinton had one, and Dole didn’t…

I interpreted the premise of the OP to be that it’s hard for a candidate to win if he or she is perceived as more elitist than the alternative by the electorate.  And I think that’s undeniably true.  Even in an Eisenhower/Stevenson situation or a Coolidge/Davis election, the GOP often still portrayed the the Democrats as stooges for inner city unions trying to take “regular Americans’” tax dollars, which is a fundamentally populist pitch, too.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2021, 02:43:54 PM »

A lot of this also sounds like the claim that the more “charismatic” candidate always wins.  Such assessments are only ever formed with the value of hindsight - we backwardly project traits onto candidates to explain away their wins/losses.
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GregTheGreat657
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« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2021, 02:49:14 PM »

A lot of this also sounds like the claim that the more “charismatic” candidate always wins.  Such assessments are only ever formed with the value of hindsight - we backwardly project traits onto candidates to explain away their wins/losses.
Yeah. In no way was Biden "more charismatic" than Trump
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« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2021, 04:53:49 PM »

All except '68 and '84. While Mondale was certainly seen as "out of touch" and Reagan made populist appeals against big government, the few regions he did well with indicate the working-class nature of the Democratic campaign.
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Progressive Pessimist
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« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2021, 05:42:08 PM »

A lot of this also sounds like the claim that the more “charismatic” candidate always wins.  Such assessments are only ever formed with the value of hindsight - we backwardly project traits onto candidates to explain away their wins/losses.

That's actually a very good point.
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Computer89
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« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2021, 07:12:42 PM »
« Edited: August 25, 2021, 07:15:57 PM by Old School Republican »

All except '68 and '84. While Mondale was certainly seen as "out of touch" and Reagan made populist appeals against big government, the few regions he did well with indicate the working-class nature of the Democratic campaign.





Seems like Reagan did really good with WWC outside Appalachia
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« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2021, 07:32:33 PM »

All except '68 and '84. While Mondale was certainly seen as "out of touch" and Reagan made populist appeals against big government, the few regions he did well with indicate the working-class nature of the Democratic campaign.





Seems like Reagan did really good with WWC outside Appalachia
He did really good period, however the few places Mondale did well (Appalachia, the Iron Range in north Minnesota, limited parts of the Midwest due to the farm crisis) were all places with a strong tradition of labor. The truly historic margins came in the suburbs.
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Joe McCarthy Was Right
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« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2021, 08:27:34 PM »

Bush was not seen as more elitist than Dukakis by the end of the campaign. He was at first, but Dukakis was just not a well-vetted candidate.

Quote
What is striking about the 1988 campaign so far is that Bush has been far more successful than Dukakis in painting himself as the anti-elitist candidate, the one who is in touch with what the vice president calls "the mainstream" of American life.

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/fl-xpm-1988-10-30-8803030845-story.html

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Alben Barkley
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« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2021, 12:02:54 AM »

Obama also kinda gave off an "elitist" vibe tbh. Not as much as Romney, but maybe more than McCain.

Also IDK if I'd call McGovern or even Humphrey more "elitist" than Nixon in any meaningful sense.

I get what you're saying but I still think "charisma" is the big factor in this period more than anything else. Even then, Nixon is kind of an exception. And in 1988, neither candidate was charismatic.
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