SB 104-20: Federal Impeachment Amendment (Tabled)

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

AN AMENDMENT
To clarify procedure for impeachment of Regional and Federal officials


Be it enacted by two-thirds of the Senate and of the Regions concurrently

Section 1. Title

This legislation may be cited as the Federal Impeachment Amendment.

Section 2. Amendment to the Fifth Constitution

1. Article IV, Section 4 of the Constitution is hereby amended:

The President, Vice President and all federal civil officers of the Republic of Atlasia, shall be removed from office on Impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

Amendment Explanation: This amendment clarifies that only federal civil officers may be removed via Senate impeachment instead of regional officials, which must be removed by the regions on their own terms.

Sponsor: Scott

The gentleman from Wyoming is recognized.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

This amendment is intended to correct what I believe was an oversight in drafting the new constitution. Under current language, Nyman can impeach and remove any official, including regional executives and legislators. But allowing this enables the federal government to extend its hand far beyond what it is intended to.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well at least it wasn't Arizona this time.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

What? Regional officials aren't "civil officers of the Republic of Atlasia", they are officers of their respective regions. This is a Rosecrans amendment attempting to solve a problem that does not exist, and in the process creating a new problem via redundancy.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Well at least it wasn't Arizona this time.

You're gonna have to explain this one to me.

What? Regional officials aren't "civil officers of the Republic of Atlasia", they are officers of their respective regions. This is a Rosecrans amendment attempting to solve a problem that does not exist, and in the process creating a new problem via redundancy.

Yes, and because those regions are within the Republic of Atlasia, they can still be considered civil officers of such. I just think that this line is somewhat ambiguous and could potentially lead to abuse at some point, and there is a case to be made that under the current language, the Senate could impeach non-federal officials. It's not redundant, it just clarifies the language so that an impartial (well, or partial) judge can't argue otherwise.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Well at least it wasn't Arizona this time.

You're gonna have to explain this one to me.

What? Regional officials aren't "civil officers of the Republic of Atlasia", they are officers of their respective regions. This is a Rosecrans amendment attempting to solve a problem that does not exist, and in the process creating a new problem via redundancy.

Yes, and because those regions are within the Republic of Atlasia, they can still be considered civil officers of such. I just think that this line is somewhat ambiguous and could potentially lead to abuse at some point, and there is a case to be made that under the current language, the Senate could impeach non-federal officials. It's not redundant, it just clarifies the language so that an impartial (well, or partial) judge can't argue otherwise.

Well no, not really. This is literally the same language as in the U.S. constitution, which nobody argues empowers Congress to impeach state officials because that's not what "civil officers of the United States Republic of Atlasia" means. But if you add "federal", you imply that it does mean that and then every other use of "officers" becomes ambiguous. Very bad amendment, senators please vote no!

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Here is the text of Article II§4 of the U.S. constitution:

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

If "civil officers of the United States" means any officeholder in the United States, why has Congress not already impeached and convicted Andrew Cuomo IRL? It is because that is not what it means! "Civil officers of the United States" refers to officials of the executive branch of the United States government, and only those officials. It does not refer to officials of the legislative branch, which is why senators cannot be impeached, and it does not refer to regional or state officials.

Unless something dramatic has happened to the English language versus IRL in the last couple of months, these words still mean what they meant in the U.S. constitution. "Civil officers of the Republic of Atlasia" refers to the president, the vice president, the secretary of state, the attorney general, and the secretary of federal elections/registrar general —no others.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Withdrawing sponsorship. If there's (lack of) real-life precedence for the problem I described, I won't push for the amendment.

Any senator has 48 hours to assume sponsorship or the amendment is tabled.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

What? Regional officials aren't "civil officers of the Republic of Atlasia", they are officers of their respective regions. This is a Rosecrans amendment attempting to solve a problem that does not exist, and in the process creating a new problem via redundancy.

One of many examples where a set of modern radios would have made a massive difference in he era before instant communication. Though obviously that doesn't ensure there won't be miscommunications and era as such does still occur in more recent times, though much less frequently.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

Well at least it wasn't Arizona this time.

You're gonna have to explain this one to me.

Its a reference to how Arizona was left out of the Fourth Constitution by mistake.

[Spark]

Why should federal officials be impeached? Can't they simply be removed by the agency for which they work?

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Why should federal officials be impeached? Can't they simply be removed by the agency for which they work?

What?

[Spark]

Why should federal officials be impeached? Can't they simply be removed by the agency for which they work?

What?

Why is it necessary to impeach federal workers??

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Why should federal officials be impeached? Can't they simply be removed by the agency for which they work?

What?

Why is it necessary to impeach federal workers??

The amendment refers to elected or appointed officials, not NPCs like federal workers.

[Spark]

Why should federal officials be impeached? Can't they simply be removed by the agency for which they work?

What?

Why is it necessary to impeach federal workers??

The amendment refers to elected or appointed officials, not NPCs like federal workers.

In that case, I can support. But doesn't this already exist in the Constitution?

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

Why should federal officials be impeached? Can't they simply be removed by the agency for which they work?

What?

Why is it necessary to impeach federal workers??

The amendment refers to elected or appointed officials, not NPCs like federal workers.

In that case, I can support. But doesn't this already exist in the Constitution?

Yes, but the point of this amendment was meant to clarify language, which Truman pointed out isn't necessary. I've withdrawn sponsorship.

[The world will shine with light in our nightmare]

With no motion for sponsor having been raised, the bill is tabled.