Should we leave the unvaccinated on their own?

[Tekken_Guy]

Of course not. Medical care should not be denied on account of stupidity. However, we probably do need to return to strict lockdowns in places where the hospitals are overrun. I'm not a fan of the idea, but having to get airlifted 150 miles away isn't any better. For those that will attack me for saying this, it is reserved for extraordinarily exceptional parts of the country. When the hospitals are overrun with COVID patients, there is no room for anyone else, regardless of vaccination status.

We need to stop this virus ASAP because it can and will mutate. It has already mutated several times to our detriment. I'm not interested in seeing the next variant that starts to bypass our vaccines. So long as the virus replicates in new hosts as it has been doing, we are all at risk. I don't want to play games. I want maximum efforts to be used for as long as we can. That means vaccines, masks, and social distancing in most indoor places. We've waited too long for vaccines to win alone. They are our major Number One tool, but not our only or cure-all tool at this point.

I think the virus is here to stay, just like the flu, and pneumonia. What we need to do is become a more healthy educated society. That won't happen overnight, but that's the direction we should be heading in.

Most of these deaths are because of co-morbidities. People aren't just dropping dead from the virus but because it is causing havoc on their already unhealthy system. Let's all get more healthy, not lockdown the country or the entire world.

Well, the flu and pneumonia haven't stopped society from functioning normally. What's to say COVID would be any different?

[Horus]

Of course not. Medical care should not be denied on account of stupidity. However, we probably do need to return to strict lockdowns in places where the hospitals are overrun. I'm not a fan of the idea, but having to get airlifted 150 miles away isn't any better. For those that will attack me for saying this, it is reserved for extraordinarily exceptional parts of the country. When the hospitals are overrun with COVID patients, there is no room for anyone else, regardless of vaccination status.

We need to stop this virus ASAP because it can and will mutate. It has already mutated several times to our detriment. I'm not interested in seeing the next variant that starts to bypass our vaccines. So long as the virus replicates in new hosts as it has been doing, we are all at risk. I don't want to play games. I want maximum efforts to be used for as long as we can. That means vaccines, masks, and social distancing in most indoor places. We've waited too long for vaccines to win alone. They are our major Number One tool, but not our only or cure-all tool at this point.

I think the virus is here to stay, just like the flu, and pneumonia. What we need to do is become a more healthy educated society. That won't happen overnight, but that's the direction we should be heading in.

Most of these deaths are because of co-morbidities. People aren't just dropping dead from the virus but because it is causing havoc on their already unhealthy system. Let's all get more healthy, not lockdown the country or the entire world.

Michelle Obama already tried this, obesity and unhealthy food are intertwined with American culture and the fat acceptance movement is making it worse.

[TheTide]

Of course not. Medical care should not be denied on account of stupidity. However, we probably do need to return to strict lockdowns in places where the hospitals are overrun. I'm not a fan of the idea, but having to get airlifted 150 miles away isn't any better. For those that will attack me for saying this, it is reserved for extraordinarily exceptional parts of the country. When the hospitals are overrun with COVID patients, there is no room for anyone else, regardless of vaccination status.

We need to stop this virus ASAP because it can and will mutate. It has already mutated several times to our detriment. I'm not interested in seeing the next variant that starts to bypass our vaccines. So long as the virus replicates in new hosts as it has been doing, we are all at risk. I don't want to play games. I want maximum efforts to be used for as long as we can. That means vaccines, masks, and social distancing in most indoor places. We've waited too long for vaccines to win alone. They are our major Number One tool, but not our only or cure-all tool at this point.

I think the virus is here to stay, just like the flu, and pneumonia. What we need to do is become a more healthy educated society. That won't happen overnight, but that's the direction we should be heading in.

Most of these deaths are because of co-morbidities. People aren't just dropping dead from the virus but because it is causing havoc on their already unhealthy system. Let's all get more healthy, not lockdown the country or the entire world.

Michelle Obama already tried this, obesity and unhealthy food are intertwined with American culture and the fat acceptance movement is making it worse.

The issue of obesity has never been omnipresent in the headlines of the news cycle, or at least not for a period of 18 months.

[Former Dean Phillips Supporters for Haley (I guess???!?) 👁️]

The unvaccinated should receive medical care as long as there is sufficient capacity and medical resources to treat them available. However, that capacity and medical resources are not unlimited, and when capacity is exceeded, rationing and triage of care necessarily has to occur.

Another area in which there are, sadly, not unlimited medical resources available is organ transplants.

Smokers are commonly de-prioritized for lung transplants and alcoholics de-prioritized for liver transplants, in comparison to non-smokers/non-alcoholics who need organ transplants.

The reason for that is pretty simple - if you give a smoker/alcoholic a lung/liver transplant, there is a larger risk they will ruin/waste the transplanted organ. It will, other things equal, do less good to give them a transplant.

Similar logic applies to people who have deliberately chosen not to get vaccinated, and so they can and will be de-prioritized for care in comparison to vaccinated people. That doesn't mean they will never receive care; other factors such as severity of illness will be taken into account. But, other things equal, a vaccinated patient of equivalent age etc are generally going to get (and should get) preferential access to monoclonals/ventilators/ECMOs/etc in comparison to the unvaccinated. And vaccinated car accident victims who have a good chance of survival with treatment are generally going to get preferential ICU access in comparison to unvaccinated severely ill COVID patients who are likely to die regardless. Etc.

This is the new reality in states like Florida, Texas, and Mississippi. Hopefully not coming to an Illinois/California/Minnesota near you, but that depends over the coming weeks and months on numerous factors such as what mitigation policies get put in place, what increases in vaccination rates can be achieved, how much vaccine efficacy turns out to drop over time and in response to delta (more data continues to trickle in every few days), and how much of a difference booster shots turn out to make.

[°Leprechaun]

NO (sane)

[°Leprechaun]

I was thinking about the star bellied sneetches earlier today. The vaccinated are like the star bellied sneetches but unfortunately many of the unvaccinated are stubbornly refusing to get vaccinated, unlike the sneetches without stars who got stars to be more acceptable.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Lol, the terminal illness are AIDs and Cancer which attack your T Cells that's why you get chemo or blood transfusions to build up your T Cells, again every other disease increase your your red blood cell abnormally and your body always make new red blood cells

Your blood cells are replaced every day, so it's not uncommon for your body to lose red blood cells to diabetes or high Hemoglobins

Lol it's the common cold it's not a terminal illness, in a non HIV patient or Cancer or compromised immune system, your body will build more red blood cells

It can't rebuild T Cells

[Xing]

Ah, if only other people’s poor decisions only affected them…

[Sir Mohamed]

How is that even supposed to work? We need effective PR campaigns to convince as much people as possible to get vaccinated. In certain professions and areas, a mandate makes sense and should be imposed.

Sure, a certain slate won't be convinced, and as harsh as it sounds, they're bearing the risk for their own health and safety. This virus is not going to go away and sooner or later pretty much anyone not immune through vaccine gets infected.

[Tekken_Guy]

https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=457915.0

I added a follow-up thread on the Individual Politics board. The point I was trying to make is "the vaccinated should not be responsible for protecting those who are capable of protecting themselves but choose not to", but it came off to many as "if you are unvaccinated and get COVID you should be left to die".

[Yoda]

A big part of me wants to say yes. Personal responsibility, Darwinism, a not-insignificant well of spite built up over the years towards these mostly trump voters, etc.

The big flaws I see in this approach though is that:

1) It fails to protect those who have no choice but to interact with these people (young family members, coworkers, service workers, etc)

2) It fails to address the crushing burden that Covid is placing on the healthcare system and those healthcare workers who have been working physically and emotionally exhausting shifts b/c of the selfishness and stupidity of the unvaccinated. Some of these poor people have been doing this for over a year now and the right wing of this country does not care about them at all and it's tough to watch. I can't imagine working in such a grim environment for so long. We can't be like republicans and show just complete and total indifference to the incredible burden these doctors, nurses, paramedics etc are being required to bear.

If we could quarantine all the hardcore unvaccinated in a few southern states and call it Dumbf***istan then sure, I'd be all for it. But, alas, that's not how it works. We are all connected whether we like it or not.

[President Johnson]

In addition to a lot of arguments already made: Letting the virus continue to spread is risks new variants emerging that may reduce effectiveness of the vaccines. Then it would come back like a boomerang to all of us and vaccinations need to start all over again. That's also why rich countries like EU members and the US must help poorer nations with getting their people vaccinated. The virus and its spread must be supressed everywhere as much as possible.

[7,052,770]

why do we (Atlas, media, general public) keep acting like Republicans are the only demographic with low vaccine rates?  Is it 'cause they are only the group we can make fun of for it?  Men's rates suck too, and clearly they can be made fun of, though I understand the trepidation some of us have with pointing out black folk suck at it too.

Trumpists have the strongest correlation, stronger than race or gender. I don't think anyone's claiming non-Trumpists are perfect, but Trumpists are clearly the biggest problem.

Case in point.

https://twitter.com/kdrum/status/1425842498056769536

I've made a good faith effort to see if I can find a stronger correlation with any other demographic indicators, and nothing is close.

[DS0816]

At this point in the pandemic, should we just leave the unvaccinated to suffer the consequences of their actions as us vaccinated people go back to normal?

Are you saying those who do not get vaccinated will, guaranteed, get COVID?

[Tekken_Guy]

At this point in the pandemic, should we just leave the unvaccinated to suffer the consequences of their actions as us vaccinated people go back to normal?

Are you saying those who do not get vaccinated will, guaranteed, get COVID?

No, what I'm saying is it's their own responsibility to protect themselves by getting the vaccine, and not the responsibility of vaccinated people not to spread it to them.

[CEO Mindset]

well no we shouldn't but for a limited extent

we need stiff punishment for journalists, public health "experts" and others helping spread the fear since last year regardless of vaccination status

anyone else not in those groups? yeah they should be able to 100% return to normal life including not having to hear about covid, horse race politics, the overeducated class's moral panics, etc