SB 104-02: Senate Terms Amendment (Tabled)
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  SB 104-02: Senate Terms Amendment (Tabled)
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Author Topic: SB 104-02: Senate Terms Amendment (Tabled)  (Read 2087 times)
GM Team Member and Senator WB
weatherboy1102
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« Reply #25 on: July 12, 2021, 12:50:43 AM »

Aye
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Pericles
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« Reply #26 on: July 12, 2021, 01:43:42 AM »

Do we really need to amend the system so quickly, when we haven't even had a chance to see how the current one actually works?

Nay
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Spark
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« Reply #27 on: July 12, 2021, 07:40:36 AM »

Nay
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Holy Unifying Centrist
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« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2021, 08:36:55 AM »

Aye
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Left Wing
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« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2021, 08:46:57 AM »

Nay
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Continential
The Op
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« Reply #30 on: July 12, 2021, 09:10:02 AM »

Nay
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Talleyrand
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« Reply #31 on: July 12, 2021, 11:35:18 AM »

Aye
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OBD
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« Reply #32 on: July 12, 2021, 12:31:15 PM »

Present
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wxtransit
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« Reply #33 on: July 12, 2021, 07:02:21 PM »

Aye.
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Dr. MB
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« Reply #34 on: July 13, 2021, 12:38:49 AM »

Aye
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Joseph Cao
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« Reply #35 on: July 13, 2021, 12:50:32 AM »

Nay.
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #36 on: July 14, 2021, 02:24:29 AM »

Don't forget about this, folks.
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Kuumo
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« Reply #37 on: July 14, 2021, 12:01:27 PM »

Aye
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #38 on: July 15, 2021, 01:30:29 AM »

With seven votes in favor, six opposed, one abstention, and four not voting, the amendment is adopted.

Debate resumes.

Quote from: Current Text
AN AMENDMENT
To equalize the term lengths of all Senators and modify the calendar for the elections of Regional and Subregional Senators.


Be it enacted by two-thirds of the Senate and of the Regions concurrently


Quote
Section 1. Title

This legislation may be cited as the Senate Terms Amendment.

Section 2. Amendment to the Fifth Constitution

1. Section 2 of the Constitution is hereby amended:

Quote
Section 2. Elections to the Senate.

1. The manner of election for at-large Senators shall be as follows:

i. The nine at-large Senators shall be elected for a term of two months by the eligible voters of the Republic according to a method of proportional representation prescribed by the Senate. Elections for the seats shall be held in the months of February, April, June, August, October, and December.
ii. If no other method of proportional representation is prescribed by law, at-large Senate elections shall operate on single transferable vote.
iii. At-large Senate vacancies shall be filled through appointment by the executive of the former Senator’s Party; but should a vacancy occur as the result of the death, expulsion, or resignation of an at-large Senator not being a member of a major Party, then a special election shall be held within twenty days of the vacancy to choose a replacement to serve the remainder of the existing term.

2. The manner of election for Regional Senators shall be as follows:

i. Each region shall elect a Senator for a term of two months by popular election of the region’s residents administered by the regional government in a manner prescribed by the legislature thereof. Regional Senate elections shall be held in the months of February, April, June, August, October, and December.
ii. Regional Senate vacancies occurring more than thirty days prior to the end of the term shall be filled by special election of the region’s residents administered by the regional government within twenty days of the vacancy.
iii. Regional Senate vacancies occurring within thirty days of the end of the term, as well as the interim between a vacancy and a prescribed special election, may be filled in accordance with the laws of the region in question; should no such law exist then the region’s executive shall have the power to make such an appointment.

3. The manner of election for Subregional Senators shall be as follows:
i. Each subregion shall elect a Senator for a term of two months by popular election of the subregion’s residents administered by its constituent regional government in a manner prescribed by the legislature thereof. Subegional Senate elections shall be held in the months of February, April, June, August, October, and December.
ii. Subregional Senate vacancies occurring more than thirty days prior to the end of the term shall be filled by a special election of the subregion’s residents administered by its constituent regional government within twenty days of the vacancy.
iii. Subregional Senate vacancies occurring within thirty days of the end of the term shall be filled by the subregional Senator elected for the following term immediately upon conclusion of their election.

Section 3. Referendum Date

1. Each region shall vote on this change concurrently with the elections of August 2021.
Amendment Explanation: This amendment changes the terms of regional and subregional Senators to two months and changes the calendar for the election of regional and subregional Senators to coincide with those of at-large senators.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #39 on: July 15, 2021, 07:40:21 PM »

I would have voted Nay on the amendment.

This hang up over everyone being the same term length annoys me. The reason why the At-large were given shorter term lengths was so that they would be more in tune with the people and the popular majority (which is prone to shifting quicker than the interest of a region or a sub region) frankly that is the only reason why it makes sense. There are practical draw backs to short terms, which I have discussed previously.

That said if we are going to have everyone be the same, I would prefer everyone be four than everyone be two with the At-large in the mid terms as it was traditionally done.
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GM Team Member and Senator WB
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« Reply #40 on: July 16, 2021, 07:23:34 PM »

I'd rather keep what we have now than have all 4 month terms. We saw just last election that regional or subregional races can be quite uncompetitive.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #41 on: July 16, 2021, 10:33:29 PM »
« Edited: July 16, 2021, 10:39:06 PM by Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee »

I'd rather keep what we have now than have all 4 month terms. We saw just last election that regional or subregional races can be quite uncompetitive.

And that problem will be made worse by giving two month terms to regional and sub regional races, because you have to find enough candidates to make it competitive 6 times a year, instead of 3.

The sole activity benefit from two months applies to the At-large situation because you only need 1.25 times as many candidates as seats to make it competitive, whereas for a head to head race you need 2 times as many candidates as seats to achieve the same. Even then we had trouble finding 5 candidates six times a year as it was. Remember when I had to beg Lumine and Cinyc to run?

More elections in the regional category would have the opposite effect of what you are desiring, hence making the regional and sub regional seats two month terms makes absolutely no sense from this standpoint of competitiveness.
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #42 on: July 16, 2021, 11:03:25 PM »

Honestly, for the reasons Yankee stated, I'm actually having reservations about this now.

It's still a very unusual makeup for half the senators having half the term lengths as the others, despite having the exact same voting powers as every other senator. We are also giving half the chamber an advantage in becoming entrenched.

The only alternative I can think of at this point would be to only allow regional and subregional senators to vote on, say, nominees and treaties. But that kind of defeats the spirit of unicameralism and only serves to disenfranchise public opinion.

I might withdraw sponsorship or motion to table and let this die, because I don't see anything passing anyway.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #43 on: July 16, 2021, 11:28:22 PM »

The only alternative I can think of at this point would be to only allow regional and subregional senators to vote on, say, nominees and treaties.

Who would run for Regional or sub regional Senate at that point? You are just sitting and watching the wheels go round and round as John Lennon once said.

Imagine if you couldn't do anything on health care, anything on education, anything on making college more affordable, anything on climate, etc etc etc.

Would you have run for your current office?
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Just Passion Through
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« Reply #44 on: July 16, 2021, 11:36:02 PM »

The only alternative I can think of at this point would be to only allow regional and subregional senators to vote on, say, nominees and treaties.

Who would run for Regional or sub regional Senate at that point? You are just sitting and watching the wheels go round and round as John Lennon once said.

Imagine if you couldn't do anything on health care, anything on education, anything on making college more affordable, anything on climate, etc etc etc.

Would you have run for your current office?

I meant in addition to proposing legislation; the four-month senators having more power than the two-month senators in a unicameral legislature.

But that defeats the purpose of unicameralism if it's essentially just a perpetual joint session of the old House and Senate.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #45 on: July 16, 2021, 11:36:29 PM »

Just because we no longer have the House, doesn't mean we need to forget why we have "People's Representatives" and even if the title doesn't exist officially anymore, the job and purpose is the same for those 9 members of the chamber.

I think instead of eliminating the differences between the representation types, we should maintain them to the furthest extent possible short of re-establishing the House. I said this in the discussions with Sestak and MB and I said it publicly afterwards, I even suggested still calling the People's Representatives, People's Representatives to emphasize the point at the expense of some obvious confusion that would cause. Tongue

DUKE'S LEGACY SHALL LIVE FOREVER!!! Tongue

I don't want us to return to the days of yore when half the country was gunning for one half of the Senate or the other desiring to make it all "their preferred way".
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GM Team Member and Senator WB
weatherboy1102
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« Reply #46 on: July 16, 2021, 11:37:58 PM »

yeah, I'm having reservations about this too.

Motioning to table.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2021, 11:38:09 PM »

We are also giving half the chamber an advantage in becoming entrenched.

A partisan in at-large is safer than someone in a sub region or regional seat.

Look at Razze's or Deadprez's long tenure. Fhtagn back a year or two ago. It is very hard to lose at-large as long as you maintain your core base.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2021, 11:40:09 PM »

The only alternative I can think of at this point would be to only allow regional and subregional senators to vote on, say, nominees and treaties.

Who would run for Regional or sub regional Senate at that point? You are just sitting and watching the wheels go round and round as John Lennon once said.

Imagine if you couldn't do anything on health care, anything on education, anything on making college more affordable, anything on climate, etc etc etc.

Would you have run for your current office?

I meant in addition to proposing legislation; the four-month senators having more power than the two-month senators in a unicameral legislature.

But that defeats the purpose of unicameralism if it's essentially just a perpetual joint session of the old House and Senate.

I wouldn't have had a problem with perpetual joint session, but you damn sure better believe that I would have insisted on equal rights in proposing legislation as well as voting on it. Tongue
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
Just Passion Through
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« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2021, 11:41:05 PM »

Seconding the motion to table.

Senators, please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.
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