Rank the 20 most powerful countries in the world in 2021?
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  Rank the 20 most powerful countries in the world in 2021?
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Author Topic: Rank the 20 most powerful countries in the world in 2021?  (Read 1507 times)
Blue3
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« on: June 25, 2021, 10:18:19 AM »

What are the 20 most powerful countries in the world in 2021, and what is the ranking of them?




I’d guess it’s something like
1. USA
2. PRC/China
3. Russia
4. Germany
5. France
6. Saudi Arabia
7. UK
8. India
9 ROC/Taiwan
10. Turkey
11. Iran
12. Pakistan
13. Israel
14. DPRK/NKorea
15. Japan
16. ROK/South Korea
17. Brazil
18. Egypt
19. Canada
20. Mexico

Maybe Italy, Australia, Nigeria, Poland, South Africa, Indonesia, Argentina, Colombia, Morocco, Angola, Algeria, Chile, Peru, Bangladesh, Kazakhstan, Philippines, Malaysia, Singapore, Thailand, Vietnam, New Zealand, Spain, Ukraine, or a few others should replace some countries on this list?
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jaichind
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« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2021, 11:24:41 AM »

1 USA   
2 PRC   
3 Russia   
4 Germany    
5 France    
6 Japan   
7 GB   
8 India   
9 Turkey   
10 Brazil
11 ROK
12 Indonesia
13 Italy
14 Mexico
15 Pakistan
16 Australia
17 Iran
18 Israel
19 Spain
20 Canada

Sorry there is no way ROC is more powerful than ROK or Japan.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2021, 01:26:02 PM »

Japan is way too low on your list, Blue3.  Less powerful than Iran and North Korea?  LOL

It also doesn't make any sense to exclude Italy from your list, as it is still a top-10 economy.
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2021, 02:17:55 PM »

Japan is way too low on your list, Blue3.  Less powerful than Iran and North Korea?  LOL

It also doesn't make any sense to exclude Italy from your list, as it is still a top-10 economy.

But its chaotic and dysfunctional politics means it's unable to use that potentiel influence. E.g. Italy consistently ranks below Spain and sometimes even the Netherlands in studies of member countries' influence in the EU. Power isn't just about resources and capabilities, but your ability to use them.
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FrancoAgo
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« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2021, 06:04:21 PM »


But its chaotic and dysfunctional politics means it's unable to use that potentiel influence. E.g. Italy consistently ranks below Spain and sometimes even the Netherlands in studies of member countries' influence in the EU. Power isn't just about resources and capabilities, but your ability to use them.

Can you link some studies?
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Blue3
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« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2021, 11:53:49 PM »

Japan is way too low on your list, Blue3.  Less powerful than Iran and North Korea?  LOL

It also doesn't make any sense to exclude Italy from your list, as it is still a top-10 economy.
When is the last time Italy was an influential leader in their region, let alone the world?
And Japan is mostly a vassal state of the US (and demilitarized), while Iran and North Korea shape not only regional policies but ripples in the world.

1 USA   
2 PRC   
3 Russia   
4 Germany    
5 France    
6 Japan   
7 GB   
8 India   
9 Turkey   
10 Brazil
11 ROK
12 Indonesia
13 Italy
14 Mexico
15 Pakistan
16 Australia
17 Iran
18 Israel
19 Spain
20 Canada

Sorry there is no way ROC is more powerful than ROK or Japan.
Saudi Arabia isn't even in your top 20? Or North Korea?

Indonesia more influential than nuclear, mega-populous Pakistan? And Iran and Israel?
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dead0man
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« Reply #6 on: June 26, 2021, 12:11:25 AM »

1.US
2.PRC
3.Russia
4.Germany
5.India
6.France
7.Japan
8.UK
9.S.Korea
10.Israel
11.Italy
12.Spain
13.Canada
14.Australia
15.S.Arabia
16.Sweden
17.Turkey
18.Taiwan
19.Brazil
20.UAE
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Conservatopia
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« Reply #7 on: June 26, 2021, 02:03:02 AM »

1. US
2. PRC
3. Russia
4. France
5. UK
6. India
7. Germany
8. Japan
9. South Korea
10. Israel
11. Canada
12. Pakistan
13. Australia
14. Iran
15. North Korea
16. Turkey
17. South Africa
18. Brazil
19. Taiwan
20. Sweden
21. Wessex
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CumbrianLefty
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« Reply #8 on: June 26, 2021, 09:15:36 AM »

Fifth is definitely too high for the UK, around tenth is probably more like it
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Red Velvet
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« Reply #9 on: June 26, 2021, 09:27:34 AM »

People are overrating Taiwan and North Korea here.
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jaichind
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« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2021, 10:07:30 AM »


1 USA   
2 PRC   
3 Russia   
4 Germany    
5 France    
6 Japan   
7 GB   
8 India   
9 Turkey   
10 Brazil
11 ROK
12 Indonesia
13 Italy
14 Mexico
15 Pakistan
16 Australia
17 Iran
18 Israel
19 Spain
20 Canada

Sorry there is no way ROC is more powerful than ROK or Japan.
Saudi Arabia isn't even in your top 20? Or North Korea?

Indonesia more influential than nuclear, mega-populous Pakistan? And Iran and Israel?

I tend to weight economic power more.  Nuclear weapons are a deterrent but since in de facto terms they are not usable as an offensive weapon I tend to weight them less in terms of power.
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beesley
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« Reply #11 on: June 26, 2021, 01:44:25 PM »

1. USA
2. PRC
3. Russia
4. Cheating a bit, but the EU
5. Germany
6. France
7. Japan
8. India
9. UK
10. Israel
11. Canada
12. South Korea
13. Italy
14. Turkey
15. Pakistan
16. Saudi Arabia
17. Australia
18. Mexico
19. Brazil
20. UAE

Surprised to see countries like Spain and Sweden on some lists.
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Biden his time
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« Reply #12 on: June 28, 2021, 06:16:05 PM »
« Edited: June 29, 2021, 11:48:39 AM by UNBEATABLE TITAN WAYNE MESSAM »

I crafted up a little list:

  • United States of America (STABLE)
  • People's Republic of China (QUICKLY RISING)
  • Russian Federation (FALLING)
  • Republic of India (QUICKLY RISING)
  • Republic of Japan (QUICKLY FALLING)
  • Federal Republic of Germany (FALLING)
  • United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (FALLING)
  • French Republic (FALLING)
  • Federative Republic of Brazil (STABLE)
  • Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (STABLE)
  • Republic of Korea (QUICKLY FALLING)
  • Republic of Indonesia (QUICKLY RISING)
  • Republic of Turkey (RISING)
  • Italian Republic (QUICKLY FALLING)
  • United States of Mexico (RISING)
  • State of Israel (RISING)
  • Federal Republic of Nigeria (RISING)
  • Federal Republic of Iran (RISING)
  • Islamic Republic of Pakistan (RISING)
  • Canada (RISING)

Opinions?



Surprised to see countries like Spain and Sweden on some lists.

People are overrating Taiwan and North Korea here.

100%! They are non-factors!



BTW I hope someone bumps this thread in 2030.



The list above has been updated with recommendations by Bismarck and Starwatcher, some of which I agree with and some of which I disagree with.
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Bismarck
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« Reply #13 on: June 28, 2021, 08:14:19 PM »

I crafted up a little list:

  • United States of America (STABLE)
  • People's Republic of China (QUICKLY RISING)
  • Russian Federation (STABLE)
  • Republic of India (QUICKLY RISING)
  • Republic of Japan (QUICKLY FALLING)
  • United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (STABLE)
  • Federal Republic of Germany (FALLING)
  • French Republic (FALLING)
  • Federative Republic of Brazil (RISING)
  • Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (RISING)
  • Republic of Korea (QUICKLY FALLING)
  • Republic of Indonesia (QUICKLY RISING)
  • Republic of Turkey (RISING)
  • Italian Republic (QUICKLY FALLING)
  • United States of Mexico (RISING)
  • State of Israel (RISING)
  • Federal Republic of Nigeria (RISING)
  • Federal Republic of Iran (RISING)
  • Islamic Republic of Pakistan (RISING)
  • Canada (RISING)

Opinions?



Surprised to see countries like Spain and Sweden on some lists.

People are overrating Taiwan and North Korea here.

100%! They are non-factors!



BTW I hope someone bumps this thread in 2030.


France is stable. Brazil is stable or falling. Saudi is stable or falling. If Japan is falling then so is Russia.
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Blue3
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« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2021, 09:18:10 PM »

The UK is definitely not stable, nor is it that high. And Japan isn't that high. Germany is stable or rising, not falling. Indonesia, Italy and Mexico shouldn't be that high either.
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Conservatopia
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« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2021, 04:51:57 PM »

I know I'm biased but people really are understating Britain.

We have a (growing) nuclear arsenal, we are still one of the top three naval powers
We are rated as having the greatest diplomatic influence in the world
We have close links and alliances with probably more countries than any other great power
We continue to project our power abroad while other countries retreat
And we just beat Germany at football.
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2021, 05:08:18 PM »


we are still one of the top three naval powers

Do you base that on some study? Military Today rank you as 5th behind the US, Russia, China and Japan.

http://www.military-today.com/navy/top_10_navies.htm
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Conservatopia
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« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2021, 05:16:47 PM »


we are still one of the top three naval powers

Do you base that on some study? Military Today rank you as 5th behind the US, Russia, China and Japan.

http://www.military-today.com/navy/top_10_navies.htm

Isn't that just naval spending?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-water_navy
This is based on a study from 2019.

My claim for diplomatic (soft) power is also a study in 2019 but it's in paper form so I'm not sure how to show you.

I feel like Brexit might be making some think that Britain is diminished.  This isn't really the case.  Leaving a customs union probably won't make much difference either way.

Interesting discussion!
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Lord Halifax
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« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2021, 05:22:39 PM »


we are still one of the top three naval powers

Do you base that on some study? Military Today rank you as 5th behind the US, Russia, China and Japan.

http://www.military-today.com/navy/top_10_navies.htm

Isn't that just naval spending?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-water_navy
This is based on a study from 2019.


No, it's not based on spending.

"Which is the most powerful navy in the world? Which are the top 10 strongest navies? Our Top 10 ranking of navies is based on their fleet surface combatants and submarines. This analysis considers offensive power of the world navies."
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2021, 06:31:38 PM »

We are rated as having the greatest diplomatic influence in the world

lol
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Red Velvet
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« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2021, 08:15:06 PM »

1. USA
2. China
3. Russia
4. India
5. Germany
6. Japan
7. France
8. South Korea
9. UK
10. Brazil
11. Turkey
12. Iran
13. Egypt
14. Italy
15. Indonesia
16. Pakistan
17. Israel
18. Saudi Arabia
19. Australia
20. Spain

Next 5 (alphabetical):
- Canada
- Mexico
- Nigeria
- South Africa
- UAE

Absolutely shocked people here are not even ranking Egypt.

I’m going by a mix of economy power + military power + diplomatic power + cultural power btw
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« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2021, 08:21:09 PM »

Absolutely shocked people here are not even ranking Egypt.

For what it's worth I had it #21

Just a little too small today.
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Pick Up the Phone
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« Reply #22 on: June 29, 2021, 08:43:40 PM »

I crafted up a little list:

  • United States of America (STABLE)
  • People's Republic of China (QUICKLY RISING)
  • Russian Federation (FALLING)
  • Republic of India (QUICKLY RISING)
  • Republic of Japan (QUICKLY FALLING)
  • Federal Republic of Germany (FALLING)
  • United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland (FALLING)
  • French Republic (FALLING)
  • Federative Republic of Brazil (STABLE)
  • Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (STABLE)
  • Republic of Korea (QUICKLY FALLING)
  • Republic of Indonesia (QUICKLY RISING)
  • Republic of Turkey (RISING)
  • Italian Republic (QUICKLY FALLING)
  • United States of Mexico (RISING)
  • State of Israel (RISING)
  • Federal Republic of Nigeria (RISING)
  • Federal Republic of Iran (RISING)
  • Islamic Republic of Pakistan (RISING)
  • Canada (RISING)


I think it's pretty clear that the Top 5 should be US, China, Russia, Germany, and France/UK. India is not at the same level - and Brazil, Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Indonesia, and Mexico are ranked too high as well. Just like most other non-European countries. What about the Netherlands instead? A country with a GDP (1.01 trillion USD) much larger than Turkey's (794 bn), Iran's (682 bn), Nigeria's (514 bn), South Africa's (329 bn), or Pakistan's (306 bn) that has lots(!) of influence in both the EU and the UN, and is home to major global companies such as Shell and Airbus.

It seems that many countries on this list are just there because of sheer population size or the "emerging power" label. But in reality, their power is extremely limited - bei it diplomatically, economically, financially, or culturally. Being a relatively big fish in a very small pond (i.e., Nigeria) is not tantamount to real power in any meaningful sense.

Also, Germany is not "falling" and neither is France. But Israel, Brazil, or Saudi Arabia might be.  
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Pick Up the Phone
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« Reply #23 on: June 29, 2021, 08:58:12 PM »

My own list:

1. US
2. China
3. Russia
4. Germany
5. France/UK

6.-10. France/UK, Japan, India, Italy, South Korea
11.-15. Canada, Mexico, Spain, Netherlands, Brazil
16.-20. Australia, Iran, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Switzerland

No Nigeria, South Africa, Pakistan, DPRK or whatever else is the flavor of the day.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #24 on: June 29, 2021, 09:03:48 PM »
« Edited: June 29, 2021, 09:09:43 PM by TDAS04 »

1. USA
2. China
3. Germany
4. Japan
5. UK
6. France
7. Russia
8. India
9. South Korea
10. Brazil
11. Turkey
12. Saudi Arabia
13. Israel
14. Italy
15. Pakistan
16. Egypt
17. Canada
18. Mexico
19. Australia
20. Indonesia

Japan is still the third largest economy, and they could demonstrate a lot more military might if they wanted to.
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