More than 1 million nonbinary adults live in the US, study finds
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  More than 1 million nonbinary adults live in the US, study finds
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Author Topic: More than 1 million nonbinary adults live in the US, study finds  (Read 1816 times)
SR GARBIEL BORIC
Alfred F. Jones
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« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2021, 01:24:10 PM »

I like how everyone is reading way too much into this when I just asked a simple question LOL. Chill. There was no ulterior motive. I just saw the article and thought this sounded high, even taking into account that it’s a small percentage of the population.

But assuming the estimate is correct or close, regarding my question: I think “people are more accepting” is certainly one hypothesis that could explain it. But I don’t think comparisons to gay people are perfect. There have clearly always been people who are gay and identify/behave as such. Sexuality is relatively straightforward compared to gender identity, and even trans identity is relatively straightforward compared to non-binary. The entire concept is a relatively new and nebulous one. It wasn’t that everyone always knew that there were non-binary people and oppressed them. It seems more like that basically nobody “identified” as non-binary at all, and suddenly a bunch have decided they are. It seems almost undeniable to me that social trends are a large part of that; unlike sexual orientation, I am not convinced that it’s something fixed and innate, but much more fluid and based on cultural views of gender roles. Hell, I thought that was the point?

I don’t particularly care and no, I am not worried about this hurting Dems in 2022. But I will say that I do find it curious how many biological women in my experience are identifying as non-binary lately, changing absolutely nothing about themselves. It’s more like “Oh I’m a tomboy who hates pink, must not really be a woman but don’t feel like a man either.” In those cases it’s not clear to me how much thought really went into adopting the label, and how much was more just following the trends or believing that any deviation from some strange Platonic ideal of how a gender is “supposed” to be meaning you are literally not that gender. I find that bizarre because by such a strict standard, EVERYONE would be “non-binary.”

You’re making some interesting assumptions. Why do you say being nonbinary isn’t straightforward, and why do you say it’s new? I think a lot of people would have said that about homosexuality a few decades ago, because it was seen as socially deviant and novel just like nonbinary identity is today. People have identified outside of being strictly male or female for a long time in a way that you understand to be true for homosexuality despite the fact that people actually haven’t been identifying as “gay” or “homosexual” per se for very long either - just like how men have had romantic and sexual relationships with other men and women with women for a long time before they were societally understood, there have also been people who didn’t feel like a man or a woman for a very long time.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2021, 01:24:56 PM »
« Edited: June 23, 2021, 02:37:23 PM by Joe Republic »

For everyday society, gender is still essentially a Venn diagram with two giant circles.  The overlap between the two circles is small but slowly growing as they drift closer together.  People in that overlap (a) are only recently learning that this label exists to help describe their identity, and (b) are coming out as such in greater numbers as the label gains mainstream acceptance.

I can personally admit that the first time I ever heard of it and truly learned what it was, my first thoughts for a while were a dismissive "huh, that’s kinda weird".  But then flashback to fifteen years ago and that was also my personal feeling towards gay people getting married.  Attitudes change.
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Joe Republic
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« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2021, 01:25:41 PM »

Is there really such a thing as a gender binary? I'm not convinced. What makes a person male or female?

Their chromosomes and genatalia.

No, he said gender.
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Trans Rights Are Human Rights
Peebs
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« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2021, 02:09:03 PM »

Is there really such a thing as a gender binary? I'm not convinced. What makes a person male or female?

Their chromosomes and genatalia.
As a wise woman once said, speak for yourself, motherf[inks]er.
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August is Landlord Pride Month
John Dule
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« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2021, 02:13:12 PM »

Is there really such a thing as a gender binary? I'm not convinced. What makes a person male or female?

Their chromosomes and genatalia.
As a wise woman once said, speak for yourself, motherf[inks]er.

It cannot possibly be fun to engage in ripostes when you know that your opponent has his hands tied behind his back.
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Horus
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« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2021, 02:16:47 PM »

Is there really such a thing as a gender binary? I'm not convinced. What makes a person male or female?

Their chromosomes and genatalia.

No, he said gender.

I did, but still no one has answered. Obviously Dule's misgendering is uncouth, but all of this seems to be relative. Does playing with dolls make one effeminate? Does wanting to pursue a career in the military make one masculine?
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Dr. MB
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« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2021, 02:17:04 PM »

Never been on twitter huh?
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Trans Rights Are Human Rights
Peebs
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« Reply #32 on: June 23, 2021, 02:22:54 PM »

Is there really such a thing as a gender binary? I'm not convinced. What makes a person male or female?

Their chromosomes and genatalia.
As a wise woman once said, speak for yourself, motherf[inks]er.

It cannot possibly be fun to engage in ripostes when you know that your opponent has his hands tied behind his back.
It's only not fun if I'm looking for a response, and right now, I'm not looking for a response. I just wanted to make a cheap one liner for (most likely non-existent) clout.
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ηєω ƒяσηтιєя
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« Reply #33 on: June 23, 2021, 02:55:23 PM »

Non-binary is a gender identity neither male nor female - meaning it doesn't fit into the typical "binary" understanding of gender.  
I get that part. However, do non-binary people feel as though they have no gender at all or that they don't fit into the gender stereotypes of being a "male" or "female"? Or am I wrong?


If it helps, bisexuality is a 'non-binary' sexuality.
Can you explain further? Thanks.
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HisGrace
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« Reply #34 on: June 23, 2021, 03:23:56 PM »

A decade ago you'd acting suprised that so many people identify as LGBT now compared to the past.

I think most everybody not living in the most square bubble knew there were tons of people in the closet.

How did we go from nobody being gay to millions? Why are autism diagnoses increasing? A more open and accepting society allows people to explore themselves and be open about their experiences.

Autism diagnoses are going up because Autism went from something that had clear criterion (not smiling/talking within x months, exc) to something extremely broad where the descriptions of it sound like a horoscope or internet personality test.
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HisGrace
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« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2021, 03:32:45 PM »

As others have said that like 0.3% of the public, which is about what I would have expected.
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🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸
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« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2021, 03:53:22 PM »

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/nonbinary-lgbtq-adults-us/

apparently 58% of "nonbinary adults" are "cis" (19% cis men + 39% cis women)?  How does that work?
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Lady of Ten Thousand Names
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« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2021, 04:07:32 PM »


I assume that it means that they identify marginally more with their gender assigned at birth, as in demi-male or demi-female identities, or perhaps that they have chosen not to physically transition, although that's a poor choice of terminology as it's generally understood that one can't be both cis and non-binary.
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Motorcity
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« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2021, 04:12:40 PM »

Is there really such a thing as a gender binary? I'm not convinced. What makes a person male or female?
In biological terms

Male is someone born with a penis
Female is someone born with a vigina

Our genders are based on our reproductive organs. I think its ridiclous that people pretend gender is a social construct and there aren't clear difference between biological males and females
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Southern Deputy Speaker Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2021, 04:30:38 PM »
« Edited: June 23, 2021, 05:17:36 PM by Southern Deputy Speaker Punxsutawney Phil »

Is there really such a thing as a gender binary? I'm not convinced. What makes a person male or female?
In biological terms

Male is someone born with a penis
Female is someone born with a vigina

Our genders are based on our reproductive organs. I think its ridiclous that people pretend gender is a social construct and there aren't clear difference between biological males and females
Science does show clear biological differences between general* male and female thinking in some rather minute areas (such as sensory things and such). It stretches credulity to claim biological male and biological female are not things at all. This is not to say that some kind of binary doesn't exist in some respects, just that male and female is clearly part of the basic framework and it's very ascientific to claim otherwise.
*=word choice here intentionally allows for deviation from the norm/average/whatever isn't statistically is the likeliest
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7,052,770
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« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2021, 05:14:59 PM »

Is there really such a thing as a gender binary? I'm not convinced. What makes a person male or female?
In biological terms

Male is someone born with a penis
Female is someone born with a vigina

Except when they're not, and I'm not even talking about trans stuff.
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Республиканский бандит
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« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2021, 06:21:53 PM »

Non-binary is a political identity.
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"?"
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« Reply #42 on: June 23, 2021, 07:33:54 PM »

DRINKING GAME LIST! Drink for each of the following:

1. Thread created by Alben Barkley
2. Thread title contains one of the following words: Woke, Cancel, Remove, Latinx, Trans, Gender, Transgender, Nonbinary
3. OP writes a 2 paragraph take with this story where he either calls for a government crackdown on woke culture or claims this will be the reason Dems get crushed in the 2022 midterms.
--- Take may also include more than 3 question marks in a row and "quoted words"
4. One of the first 3 posts is an anti-woke culture comment that quickly gets 10+ recommendations in an hour from (at least) 2 of the following posters: Averroës Nix, BRTD, Cashew, Horus, Sawxdem, Thegreatwar18
5. Thread reaches over 2 pages in 3 hours
6. BRTD complains about having to hear "Latinx" again
7. Repeat 7 days from now

I'm always open to suggestions.
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"?"
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« Reply #43 on: June 23, 2021, 07:34:13 PM »

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again. This board is a mess when it comes to trans & nonbinary discussion.
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Progressive Pessimist
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« Reply #44 on: June 23, 2021, 07:55:33 PM »

Honestly, the number shouldn't matter for our country to treat them equitably.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #45 on: June 23, 2021, 11:16:00 PM »

Also, I've said it before and I'll say it again. This board is a mess when it comes to trans & nonbinary discussion.
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MR. YIAR LAPID
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« Reply #46 on: June 23, 2021, 11:19:52 PM »

Effortlessly moronic statement from an intellectual sadist.
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DaleCooper
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« Reply #47 on: June 23, 2021, 11:46:36 PM »

Is there really such a thing as a gender binary? I'm not convinced. What makes a person male or female?

Their chromosomes and genatalia.

No, he said gender.

I did, but still no one has answered. Obviously Dule's misgendering is uncouth, but all of this seems to be relative. Does playing with dolls make one effeminate? Does wanting to pursue a career in the military make one masculine?

We were starting to break those barriers in the past but I think the left has little interest in that anymore. The funny thing is that when I was growing up there was a big, and I'd argue positive, cultural push in society to recognize that being tomboy or sissy (purely for lack of a less rude word) had no bearing on the legitimacy of one's gender. This was reflected in a lot of the children's programming too. I remember there were little commercials on the Disney Channel when I was in elementary school where they'd profile boys that enjoyed volleyball or dancing and girls that liked reptiles or football. This always stuck out to me as a kid because I was never sporty or outdoorsy and was made to feel bad about it back then because boys weren't "supposed" to be the way I was. Now I feel like this wouldn't be encouraged, because it seems to go against the extremely rigid gender roles that are getting pushed these days.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #48 on: June 23, 2021, 11:51:43 PM »

How did we go from nobody having heard of non-binary to 1.2 million so rapidly, exactly?

0.4% of the population with an identity that can easily be hidden (or not even understood by the person who had that identity until the words came about) is easy to imagine people missing or minimizing for centuries. 1 in 250 people.

Of course, populations far smaller than that have been recognized. Intersex people are about 0.02% of the population, or 1 in 5000, and their status is still valid even though it's vanishingly rare.
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HisGrace
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« Reply #49 on: June 23, 2021, 11:57:40 PM »

Is there really such a thing as a gender binary? I'm not convinced. What makes a person male or female?

Their chromosomes and genatalia.

No, he said gender.

I did, but still no one has answered. Obviously Dule's misgendering is uncouth, but all of this seems to be relative. Does playing with dolls make one effeminate? Does wanting to pursue a career in the military make one masculine?

We were starting to break those barriers in the past but I think the left has little interest in that anymore. The funny thing is that when I was growing up there was a big, and I'd argue positive, cultural push in society to recognize that being tomboy or sissy (purely for lack of a less rude word) had no bearing on the legitimacy of one's gender. This was reflected in a lot of the children's programming too. I remember there were little commercials on the Disney Channel when I was in elementary school where they'd profile boys that enjoyed volleyball or dancing and girls that liked reptiles or football. This always stuck out to me as a kid because I was never sporty or outdoorsy and was made to feel bad about it back then because boys weren't "supposed" to be the way I was. Now I feel like this wouldn't be encouraged, because it seems to go against the extremely rigid gender roles that are getting pushed these days.

Maybe getting a bit off the point of the thread, but I've brought up several times on here that I've yet to hear an example of a "brain sex" that isn't stereotypical and obviously socially constructed (i.e, playing with dolls or wanting to wear a dress). No one's ever corrected me and given better examples. Maybe someone could suggest more substantive things like women being more emotional or men having more spatial awareness, but even then I'm a bit dubious because there's not much actual evidence suggesting a biological cause for stuff like that. Not to mention that it flies in the face of everything feminists were saying just a couple years ago and you'd have been called a bigot for suggesting it. It causes problems in their rhetoric even now. Like, why are we calling men "toxic" for being unemotional if they're born that way? Wouldn't that be bigotry if it were the case?

Adults certainly have the right to get a sex or name change if they want to. The left's dialogue on this should really revolve around that instead of this incoherent ideology they appear to be making up as they go along.
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