Catholic bishops this week will discuss if Biden qualifies for Communion.

[The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow]

The idea of denying him communion is quite absurd when you acknowledge that he won about half of the Catholic vote. Are you going to deny all of them communion too?

[pppolitics]

The bishops, for better or worse, are the teachers of the faith Biden says he is devoted to. That is simply how the Catholic faith works. The Church has been resolute on abortion since the beginning, so if a politician is not willing to follow that as they govern, why is the Church not justified in taking remedial action? It is rather shocking how many people have an opinion on an internal affair between certain politicians and their faith, especially those who are not Catholic. How does this affect you? Why are all these progressives up in arms?

The church has no business sticking its nose into politics.

Biden personally opposes abortion.

[Xeuma]

The bishops, for better or worse, are the teachers of the faith Biden says he is devoted to. That is simply how the Catholic faith works. The Church has been resolute on abortion since the beginning, so if a politician is not willing to follow that as they govern, why is the Church not justified in taking remedial action? It is rather shocking how many people have an opinion on an internal affair between certain politicians and their faith, especially those who are not Catholic. How does this affect you? Why are all these progressives up in arms?

The church has no business sticking its nose into politics.

Biden personally opposes abortion.

Why not? How is politics not an intersection of many different areas the Church cares about, including morality?

So he personally believes abortion is murder, but thinks it should be legal anyways? That's simply not a defendable stance.

[Xeuma]

The idea of denying him communion is quite absurd when you acknowledge that he won about half of the Catholic vote. Are you going to deny all of them communion too?

A random given Catholic could morally vote for Biden. Biden himself, persisting in promotion of abortion, is not a random given Catholic. That's a false equivalency.

[pppolitics]

The bishops, for better or worse, are the teachers of the faith Biden says he is devoted to. That is simply how the Catholic faith works. The Church has been resolute on abortion since the beginning, so if a politician is not willing to follow that as they govern, why is the Church not justified in taking remedial action? It is rather shocking how many people have an opinion on an internal affair between certain politicians and their faith, especially those who are not Catholic. How does this affect you? Why are all these progressives up in arms?

The church has no business sticking its nose into politics.

Biden personally opposes abortion.

Why not? How is politics not an intersection of many different areas the Church cares about, including morality?

So he personally believes abortion is murder, but thinks it should be legal anyways? That's simply not a defendable stance.

If the church wants to go into politics, then it better be willing to give up its tax exemption status.

[Xeuma]

The bishops, for better or worse, are the teachers of the faith Biden says he is devoted to. That is simply how the Catholic faith works. The Church has been resolute on abortion since the beginning, so if a politician is not willing to follow that as they govern, why is the Church not justified in taking remedial action? It is rather shocking how many people have an opinion on an internal affair between certain politicians and their faith, especially those who are not Catholic. How does this affect you? Why are all these progressives up in arms?

The church has no business sticking its nose into politics.

Biden personally opposes abortion.

Why not? How is politics not an intersection of many different areas the Church cares about, including morality?

So he personally believes abortion is murder, but thinks it should be legal anyways? That's simply not a defendable stance.

If the church wants to go into politics, then it better be willing to give up its tax exemption status.

But why? Why should the speech of the Church be silenced in the political arena under the threat of government penalty? Why are Democrats ok with that?

[pppolitics]

The bishops, for better or worse, are the teachers of the faith Biden says he is devoted to. That is simply how the Catholic faith works. The Church has been resolute on abortion since the beginning, so if a politician is not willing to follow that as they govern, why is the Church not justified in taking remedial action? It is rather shocking how many people have an opinion on an internal affair between certain politicians and their faith, especially those who are not Catholic. How does this affect you? Why are all these progressives up in arms?

The church has no business sticking its nose into politics.

Biden personally opposes abortion.

Why not? How is politics not an intersection of many different areas the Church cares about, including morality?

So he personally believes abortion is murder, but thinks it should be legal anyways? That's simply not a defendable stance.

If the church wants to go into politics, then it better be willing to give up its tax exemption status.

But why? Why should the speech of the Church be silenced in the political arena under the threat of government penalty? Why are Democrats ok with that?

penalty?

tax exemption is a privilege

[Storr]

Why isn't the Church doing this to all of the European politicians that support abortion? I wonder if this is happening because the US Church (or in this case specifically the US Conference of Bishops) is more conservative than its European counterparts.

[Xeuma]

The bishops, for better or worse, are the teachers of the faith Biden says he is devoted to. That is simply how the Catholic faith works. The Church has been resolute on abortion since the beginning, so if a politician is not willing to follow that as they govern, why is the Church not justified in taking remedial action? It is rather shocking how many people have an opinion on an internal affair between certain politicians and their faith, especially those who are not Catholic. How does this affect you? Why are all these progressives up in arms?

The church has no business sticking its nose into politics.

Biden personally opposes abortion.

Why not? How is politics not an intersection of many different areas the Church cares about, including morality?

So he personally believes abortion is murder, but thinks it should be legal anyways? That's simply not a defendable stance.

If the church wants to go into politics, then it better be willing to give up its tax exemption status.

But why? Why should the speech of the Church be silenced in the political arena under the threat of government penalty? Why are Democrats ok with that?

penalty?

tax exemption is a privilege

Threatening to tax me because of my political speech is indeed a penalty, yes, regardless if its a church or some other non-profit.

[pppolitics]

The bishops, for better or worse, are the teachers of the faith Biden says he is devoted to. That is simply how the Catholic faith works. The Church has been resolute on abortion since the beginning, so if a politician is not willing to follow that as they govern, why is the Church not justified in taking remedial action? It is rather shocking how many people have an opinion on an internal affair between certain politicians and their faith, especially those who are not Catholic. How does this affect you? Why are all these progressives up in arms?

The church has no business sticking its nose into politics.

Biden personally opposes abortion.

Why not? How is politics not an intersection of many different areas the Church cares about, including morality?

So he personally believes abortion is murder, but thinks it should be legal anyways? That's simply not a defendable stance.

If the church wants to go into politics, then it better be willing to give up its tax exemption status.

But why? Why should the speech of the Church be silenced in the political arena under the threat of government penalty? Why are Democrats ok with that?

penalty?

tax exemption is a privilege

Threatening to tax me because of my political speech is indeed a penalty, yes, regardless if its a church or some other non-profit.

This country was founded on the principle of religious freedom.

If the church wants to play politics, then it better be willing to lose its tax exemption status.

[Xeuma]

The bishops, for better or worse, are the teachers of the faith Biden says he is devoted to. That is simply how the Catholic faith works. The Church has been resolute on abortion since the beginning, so if a politician is not willing to follow that as they govern, why is the Church not justified in taking remedial action? It is rather shocking how many people have an opinion on an internal affair between certain politicians and their faith, especially those who are not Catholic. How does this affect you? Why are all these progressives up in arms?

The church has no business sticking its nose into politics.

Biden personally opposes abortion.

Why not? How is politics not an intersection of many different areas the Church cares about, including morality?

So he personally believes abortion is murder, but thinks it should be legal anyways? That's simply not a defendable stance.

If the church wants to go into politics, then it better be willing to give up its tax exemption status.

But why? Why should the speech of the Church be silenced in the political arena under the threat of government penalty? Why are Democrats ok with that?

penalty?

tax exemption is a privilege

Threatening to tax me because of my political speech is indeed a penalty, yes, regardless if its a church or some other non-profit.

This country was founded on the principle of religious freedom.

If the church wants to play politics, then it better be willing to lose its tax exemption status.

....yes? It is obviously against religious freedom to prohibit the Church from entering the political sphere.

[RI]

Denying a pro-choice Catholic communion is not tantamount to saying "you can not vote for them" but is an ecclesial act to let the politician know that they are in a state of unrepentant mortal sin, which is always grounds for communion denial if publicly known. There is no proscription from voting for a candidate in a state of mortal sin, as far as I know.

[pppolitics]

The bishops, for better or worse, are the teachers of the faith Biden says he is devoted to. That is simply how the Catholic faith works. The Church has been resolute on abortion since the beginning, so if a politician is not willing to follow that as they govern, why is the Church not justified in taking remedial action? It is rather shocking how many people have an opinion on an internal affair between certain politicians and their faith, especially those who are not Catholic. How does this affect you? Why are all these progressives up in arms?

The church has no business sticking its nose into politics.

Biden personally opposes abortion.

Why not? How is politics not an intersection of many different areas the Church cares about, including morality?

So he personally believes abortion is murder, but thinks it should be legal anyways? That's simply not a defendable stance.

If the church wants to go into politics, then it better be willing to give up its tax exemption status.

But why? Why should the speech of the Church be silenced in the political arena under the threat of government penalty? Why are Democrats ok with that?

penalty?

tax exemption is a privilege

Threatening to tax me because of my political speech is indeed a penalty, yes, regardless if its a church or some other non-profit.

This country was founded on the principle of religious freedom.

If the church wants to play politics, then it better be willing to lose its tax exemption status.

....yes? It is obviously against religious freedom to prohibit the Church from entering the political sphere.

...have you ever heard of "separation of church and state"?

[Xeuma]

The bishops, for better or worse, are the teachers of the faith Biden says he is devoted to. That is simply how the Catholic faith works. The Church has been resolute on abortion since the beginning, so if a politician is not willing to follow that as they govern, why is the Church not justified in taking remedial action? It is rather shocking how many people have an opinion on an internal affair between certain politicians and their faith, especially those who are not Catholic. How does this affect you? Why are all these progressives up in arms?

The church has no business sticking its nose into politics.

Biden personally opposes abortion.

Why not? How is politics not an intersection of many different areas the Church cares about, including morality?

So he personally believes abortion is murder, but thinks it should be legal anyways? That's simply not a defendable stance.

If the church wants to go into politics, then it better be willing to give up its tax exemption status.

But why? Why should the speech of the Church be silenced in the political arena under the threat of government penalty? Why are Democrats ok with that?

penalty?

tax exemption is a privilege

Threatening to tax me because of my political speech is indeed a penalty, yes, regardless if its a church or some other non-profit.

This country was founded on the principle of religious freedom.

If the church wants to play politics, then it better be willing to lose its tax exemption status.

....yes? It is obviously against religious freedom to prohibit the Church from entering the political sphere.

...have you ever heard of "separation of church and state"?

I'm not advocating for the Church to take over the state, am I? Further, the 1st Amendment is the precise opposite: the Church needs protection from the state, not, as you are implying, the other way around.

[pppolitics]

The bishops, for better or worse, are the teachers of the faith Biden says he is devoted to. That is simply how the Catholic faith works. The Church has been resolute on abortion since the beginning, so if a politician is not willing to follow that as they govern, why is the Church not justified in taking remedial action? It is rather shocking how many people have an opinion on an internal affair between certain politicians and their faith, especially those who are not Catholic. How does this affect you? Why are all these progressives up in arms?

The church has no business sticking its nose into politics.

Biden personally opposes abortion.

Why not? How is politics not an intersection of many different areas the Church cares about, including morality?

So he personally believes abortion is murder, but thinks it should be legal anyways? That's simply not a defendable stance.

If the church wants to go into politics, then it better be willing to give up its tax exemption status.

But why? Why should the speech of the Church be silenced in the political arena under the threat of government penalty? Why are Democrats ok with that?

penalty?

tax exemption is a privilege

Threatening to tax me because of my political speech is indeed a penalty, yes, regardless if its a church or some other non-profit.

This country was founded on the principle of religious freedom.

If the church wants to play politics, then it better be willing to lose its tax exemption status.

....yes? It is obviously against religious freedom to prohibit the Church from entering the political sphere.

...have you ever heard of "separation of church and state"?

I'm not advocating for the Church to take over the state, am I? Further, the 1st Amendment is the precise opposite: the Church needs protection from the state, not, as you are implying, the other way around.

Did you ever took American history in school?

Some of the very first Europeans to settle in America did so because of religious freedom.

[2952-0-0]

I'm not advocating for the Church to take over the state, am I? Further, the 1st Amendment is the precise opposite: the Church needs protection from the state, not, as you are implying, the other way around.

The issue is that by denying Communion just to one politician just for his action or speech about abortion, while not denying Communion to another for approving the death penalty or detaining child migrants in cages, the Church is selectively applying its teachings. Pope Francis points out that there are no "non-negotiable" Catholic doctrines, because that means all other doctrines are negotiable.

Of course, there's nothing a government can or even should do about to whom a priest administers Communion. But a religious group claiming a set of divine teachings, and then selectively applying them, is deeply damaging to its credibility.

[Xeuma]

Did you ever took American history in school?

Some of the very first European to settle in America did so because of religious freedom.

Are you actually reading and responding to the words I've said, or to some strawman you've created in your mind? Yes, religious freedom is a good thing. You, however, appear to be against the religious freedom of the Church to enter the political arena. If it does, you want the Church to face a government-imposed penalty, and a pretty steep one at that. As for American history, let us not forget the long history of anti-Catholic bias in this country that still rears its head today. There would be no where near as much vitriol against another religious congregation that decided to discipline one of its members as there was been on the original issue of this thread.

[Xeuma]

I'm not advocating for the Church to take over the state, am I? Further, the 1st Amendment is the precise opposite: the Church needs protection from the state, not, as you are implying, the other way around.

The issue is that by denying Communion just to one politician just for his action or speech about abortion, while not denying Communion to another for approving the death penalty or detaining child migrants in cages, the Church is selectively applying its teachings. Pope Francis points out that there are no "non-negotiable" Catholic doctrines, because that means all other doctrines are negotiable.

Of course, there's nothing a government can or even should do about to whom a priest administers Communion. But a religious group claiming a set of divine teachings, and then selectively applying them, is deeply damaging to its credibility.

By all means then, discipline them too. I have zero time for Republicans cospalying as Catholics, as I have said before. However, again, this is a false equivalency. Abortion is of particular importance because of the deep evil of the act. It is worse than the death penalty and the cruelty given to children at the border. That does not make any doctrine "negotiable" but reflects the reality that we cannot do everything at once.

[RI]

I'm not advocating for the Church to take over the state, am I? Further, the 1st Amendment is the precise opposite: the Church needs protection from the state, not, as you are implying, the other way around.

The issue is that by denying Communion just to one politician just for his action or speech about abortion, while not denying Communion to another for approving the death penalty or detaining child migrants in cages, the Church is selectively applying its teachings. Pope Francis points out that there are no "non-negotiable" Catholic doctrines, because that means all other doctrines are negotiable.

Of course, there's nothing a government can or even should do about to whom a priest administers Communion. But a religious group claiming a set of divine teachings, and then selectively applying them, is deeply damaging to its credibility.

While I very much agree with the spirit of your post, there is a distinct difference between abortion and the death penalty or child detainment in that only the former is held by the Catholic Church to be intrinsically immoral whereas the others are context-dependent.

[Buffalo Mayor Young Kim]

I’d just like to point out again that this standard doesn’t apply to literally anything or anyone else.
See Barr, William and 5 SC justices

[Xeuma]

I’d just like to point out again that this standard doesn’t apply to literally anything or anyone else.
See Barr, William and 5 SC justices

Who all have a very different job than the president, and even then, I don't think a Catholic could morally serve as a prosecutor in this country with the laws we have. But they are not as prominent as Biden. And this matter should ordinarily be between the person and his priest. In this case, that has not worked, and so now there is an escalation.

[pppolitics]

Are you actually reading and responding to the words I've said, or to some strawman you've created in your mind? Yes, religious freedom is a good thing. You, however, appear to be against the religious freedom of the Church to enter the political arena. If it does, you want the Church to face a government-imposed penalty, and a pretty steep one at that.

The church entering the political arena is literally the opposite of religious freedom: it's religious oppression.

Also, tax exemption is a privilege.

As for American history, let us not forget the long history of anti-Catholic bias in this country that still rears its head today. There would be no where near as much vitriol against another religious congregation that decided to discipline one of its members as there was been on the original issue of this thread.

There is your strawman.

That has literally nothing to do with the discussion.

[Xeuma]

Are you actually reading and responding to the words I've said, or to some strawman you've created in your mind? Yes, religious freedom is a good thing. You, however, appear to be against the religious freedom of the Church to enter the political arena. If it does, you want the Church to face a government-imposed penalty, and a pretty steep one at that.

The church entering the political arena is literally the opposite of religious freedom: it's religious oppression.

Also, tax exemption is a privilege.

As for American history, let us not forget the long history of anti-Catholic bias in this country that still rears its head today. There would be no where near as much vitriol against another religious congregation that decided to discipline one of its members as there was been on the original issue of this thread.

There is your strawman.

That has literally nothing to do with the discussion.

How is the Church saying, for example, "We think Donald Trump is not suited to be President," religious oppression?

[pppolitics]

Are you actually reading and responding to the words I've said, or to some strawman you've created in your mind? Yes, religious freedom is a good thing. You, however, appear to be against the religious freedom of the Church to enter the political arena. If it does, you want the Church to face a government-imposed penalty, and a pretty steep one at that.

The church entering the political arena is literally the opposite of religious freedom: it's religious oppression.

Also, tax exemption is a privilege.

As for American history, let us not forget the long history of anti-Catholic bias in this country that still rears its head today. There would be no where near as much vitriol against another religious congregation that decided to discipline one of its members as there was been on the original issue of this thread.

There is your strawman.

That has literally nothing to do with the discussion.

How is the Church saying, for example, "We think Donald Trump is not suited to be President," religious oppression?

The church successfully made abortion illegal.

An atheist wants to get an abortion, but can't do so.

What do you call that besides religious opression?

[afleitch]

The Church in the US is effectively confirming it's nothing more than a pro-prenatal-life pressure group. Which is understandable as it's the only issue that it has capital on (and indeed has shaped in many ways over the past forty years) Why pressure on issues of human trafficking, welfare based poverty solution or against the death penalty when on those issues not only is it ignored, but most Republican Catholics don't choose to advocate? Let it be consumed into serving one wing of the culture wars like everything else from the NFL to tinned beans.