Is DeSantis a stronger candidate then Trump was in 16 or 20
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  Is DeSantis a stronger candidate then Trump was in 16 or 20
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Obama-Biden Democrat
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« Reply #25 on: June 12, 2021, 10:04:04 PM »

He's not as crazy as Trump, so that's a plus in his favor.

If you drop the crazy, then the MAGAs will sit out the election. You can't appeal to moderate suburbanites and the MAGAs.
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Minnesota Mike
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« Reply #26 on: June 13, 2021, 12:06:56 AM »

I’d say so as he’d probably able to have Trump’s appeal in the Midwest plus have the appeal of  downballot republicans in the sunbelt meaning I think he definitely wins

I don't get why you would think the generic Governor of Florida would have any appeal in the Midwest. Trump was the crazy billionaire businessman who would be politically incorrect and run the country like his successful businesses (at least that is the story MAGA crowd bought). Desantis is just another boring Republican from the south.   
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #27 on: June 13, 2021, 03:30:50 AM »

With Nikkie Fried as the stronger candidate, DeSantis may not even win Reelection, I will donate to Fried, I know that s forum has been obsessed with DeSantis, hope he loses
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« Reply #28 on: June 13, 2021, 11:57:59 PM »

He very well could be. could and will are two different things though.
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MargieCat
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« Reply #29 on: June 14, 2021, 12:32:17 AM »

I’d say so as he’d probably able to have Trump’s appeal in the Midwest plus have the appeal of  downballot republicans in the sunbelt meaning I think he definitely wins

I don't get why you would think the generic Governor of Florida would have any appeal in the Midwest. Trump was the crazy billionaire businessman who would be politically incorrect and run the country like his successful businesses (at least that is the story MAGA crowd bought). Desantis is just another boring Republican from the south.   
Those are my thoughts.

Other than the already red midwestern states like Ohio, Iowa, Indiana, etc, I don't know why people assume he'd win in Michigan, Wisconsin, and Pennyslvania.
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wbrocks67
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« Reply #30 on: June 14, 2021, 07:55:00 AM »

I'm not sure why people think the same college+ whites in the suburbs who were turned off by Trump wouldn't be completely turned off by DeSantis as well?

Because DeSantis is smarter, saner and has a much cleaner personal life?

How many people did Trump actually turn off that way?

Exactly. DeSantis is toxic to the suburbs/college+ whites in the same way Trump was - how they act. DeSantis is a buffoon, and also just a jerk. Trump's messy personal life was just one more thing on top of everything else, but it wasn't really the catalyst for why he was so toxic in the suburbs and to college+ whites.
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AlterEgo
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« Reply #31 on: June 14, 2021, 09:34:50 AM »

I'm not sure why people think the same college+ whites in the suburbs who were turned off by Trump wouldn't be completely turned off by DeSantis as well?

Because DeSantis is smarter, saner and has a much cleaner personal life?

How many people did Trump actually turn off that way?

Exactly. DeSantis is toxic to the suburbs/college+ whites in the same way Trump was - how they act. DeSantis is a buffoon, and also just a jerk. Trump's messy personal life was just one more thing on top of everything else, but it wasn't really the catalyst for why he was so toxic in the suburbs and to college+ whites.

I'd be curious to have you expound upon the bolded take.
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Person Man
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« Reply #32 on: June 14, 2021, 09:54:00 AM »

I'm not sure why people think the same college+ whites in the suburbs who were turned off by Trump wouldn't be completely turned off by DeSantis as well?

Because DeSantis is smarter, saner and has a much cleaner personal life?

How many people did Trump actually turn off that way?

Exactly. DeSantis is toxic to the suburbs/college+ whites in the same way Trump was - how they act. DeSantis is a buffoon, and also just a jerk. Trump's messy personal life was just one more thing on top of everything else, but it wasn't really the catalyst for why he was so toxic in the suburbs and to college+ whites.

I'd be curious to have you expound upon the bolded take.

He has a history of doing things because he can, but I think the suburbs have simply changed in a way that small towns and frontier areas have changed. That is, they have an increasing tendency to vote on personal and community aspirations rather than immediate personal interests. You can blame the culture wars or relative deprivation but that’s how it works.
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AlterEgo
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« Reply #33 on: June 14, 2021, 10:07:06 AM »

I'm not sure why people think the same college+ whites in the suburbs who were turned off by Trump wouldn't be completely turned off by DeSantis as well?

Because DeSantis is smarter, saner and has a much cleaner personal life?

How many people did Trump actually turn off that way?

Exactly. DeSantis is toxic to the suburbs/college+ whites in the same way Trump was - how they act. DeSantis is a buffoon, and also just a jerk. Trump's messy personal life was just one more thing on top of everything else, but it wasn't really the catalyst for why he was so toxic in the suburbs and to college+ whites.

I'd be curious to have you expound upon the bolded take.

He has a history of doing things because he can, but I think the suburbs have simply changed in a way that small towns and frontier areas have changed. That is, they have an increasing tendency to vote on personal and community aspirations rather than immediate personal interests. You can blame the culture wars or relative deprivation but that’s how it works.

I don't know that particularly answers the question I put forth. What I was really getting at, though: I know we're a politically astute/active bunch here, but I am kind of interested in knowing where some of the very strong opinions on DeSantis from out-of-staters comes from.

Personally, I don't see DeSantis' demeanor as anything close to Trump. In press conferences, etc. Trump would just be a rude jerk if he didn't like you or your line of questioning. DeSantis is more of a smarmy, smart-alec type. If he doesn't like where your line of questioning is going, he's going to give you a smart remark to let you know but then will typically at least address the topic you've brought up.
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Person Man
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« Reply #34 on: June 14, 2021, 11:07:25 AM »

I'm not sure why people think the same college+ whites in the suburbs who were turned off by Trump wouldn't be completely turned off by DeSantis as well?

Because DeSantis is smarter, saner and has a much cleaner personal life?

How many people did Trump actually turn off that way?

Exactly. DeSantis is toxic to the suburbs/college+ whites in the same way Trump was - how they act. DeSantis is a buffoon, and also just a jerk. Trump's messy personal life was just one more thing on top of everything else, but it wasn't really the catalyst for why he was so toxic in the suburbs and to college+ whites.

I'd be curious to have you expound upon the bolded take.

He has a history of doing things because he can, but I think the suburbs have simply changed in a way that small towns and frontier areas have changed. That is, they have an increasing tendency to vote on personal and community aspirations rather than immediate personal interests. You can blame the culture wars or relative deprivation but that’s how it works.

I don't know that particularly answers the question I put forth. What I was really getting at, though: I know we're a politically astute/active bunch here, but I am kind of interested in knowing where some of the very strong opinions on DeSantis from out-of-staters comes from.

Personally, I don't see DeSantis' demeanor as anything close to Trump. In press conferences, etc. Trump would just be a rude jerk if he didn't like you or your line of questioning. DeSantis is more of a smarmy, smart-alec type. If he doesn't like where your line of questioning is going, he's going to give you a smart remark to let you know but then will typically at least address the topic you've brought up.

So this thread is whether you can be Trump without being Trump and whether or not that can work.
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Roll Roons
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« Reply #35 on: June 14, 2021, 11:17:46 AM »

I'm not sure why people think the same college+ whites in the suburbs who were turned off by Trump wouldn't be completely turned off by DeSantis as well?

Because DeSantis is smarter, saner and has a much cleaner personal life?

How many people did Trump actually turn off that way?

Exactly. DeSantis is toxic to the suburbs/college+ whites in the same way Trump was - how they act. DeSantis is a buffoon, and also just a jerk. Trump's messy personal life was just one more thing on top of everything else, but it wasn't really the catalyst for why he was so toxic in the suburbs and to college+ whites.

He's a jerk because he called out the media for a blatant character assassination attempt?

Frankly, I believe the media are the most destructive force in our country today. Anyone who stands up to them gets points from me.
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wbrocks67
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« Reply #36 on: June 14, 2021, 11:25:34 AM »

I'm not sure why people think the same college+ whites in the suburbs who were turned off by Trump wouldn't be completely turned off by DeSantis as well?

Because DeSantis is smarter, saner and has a much cleaner personal life?

How many people did Trump actually turn off that way?

Exactly. DeSantis is toxic to the suburbs/college+ whites in the same way Trump was - how they act. DeSantis is a buffoon, and also just a jerk. Trump's messy personal life was just one more thing on top of everything else, but it wasn't really the catalyst for why he was so toxic in the suburbs and to college+ whites.

He's a jerk because he called out the media for a blatant character assassination attempt?

Frankly, I believe the media are the most destructive force in our country today. Anyone who stands up to them gets points from me.

DeSantis is literally a 'own the libs' meme come to life. He doesn't do anything to better the lives of his constituents, it's all culture war stuff and him being a smart alec to reporters, the media, Democrats, his opposition, etc.

He doesn't even try and be diplomatic or fair.

His last major events were dealing with Critical Race Theory and Transgender athletes. Pretty clear he's being purposeful on what he's choosing to focus on - and none of it is tangibly important to people's actual lives. Just more Fox News fodder.
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Person Man
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« Reply #37 on: June 14, 2021, 12:13:42 PM »

I'm not sure why people think the same college+ whites in the suburbs who were turned off by Trump wouldn't be completely turned off by DeSantis as well?

Because DeSantis is smarter, saner and has a much cleaner personal life?

How many people did Trump actually turn off that way?

Exactly. DeSantis is toxic to the suburbs/college+ whites in the same way Trump was - how they act. DeSantis is a buffoon, and also just a jerk. Trump's messy personal life was just one more thing on top of everything else, but it wasn't really the catalyst for why he was so toxic in the suburbs and to college+ whites.

He's a jerk because he called out the media for a blatant character assassination attempt?

Frankly, I believe the media are the most destructive force in our country today. Anyone who stands up to them gets points from me.

DeSantis is literally a 'own the libs' meme come to life. He doesn't do anything to better the lives of his constituents, it's all culture war stuff and him being a smart alec to reporters, the media, Democrats, his opposition, etc.

He doesn't even try and be diplomatic or fair.

His last major events were dealing with Critical Race Theory and Transgender athletes. Pretty clear he's being purposeful on what he's choosing to focus on - and none of it is tangibly important to people's actual lives. Just more Fox News fodder.

That's why I say he is "Trump without Trump". He basically tries to put the Trump wine in the W/Romney bottle.
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« Reply #38 on: June 14, 2021, 12:38:04 PM »

I'm not sure why people think the same college+ whites in the suburbs who were turned off by Trump wouldn't be completely turned off by DeSantis as well?

Because DeSantis is smarter, saner and has a much cleaner personal life?

How many people did Trump actually turn off that way?

Exactly. DeSantis is toxic to the suburbs/college+ whites in the same way Trump was - how they act. DeSantis is a buffoon, and also just a jerk. Trump's messy personal life was just one more thing on top of everything else, but it wasn't really the catalyst for why he was so toxic in the suburbs and to college+ whites.

He's a jerk because he called out the media for a blatant character assassination attempt?

Frankly, I believe the media are the most destructive force in our country today. Anyone who stands up to them gets points from me.

DeSantis is literally a 'own the libs' meme come to life. He doesn't do anything to better the lives of his constituents, it's all culture war stuff and him being a smart alec to reporters, the media, Democrats, his opposition, etc.

He doesn't even try and be diplomatic or fair.

His last major events were dealing with Critical Race Theory and Transgender athletes. Pretty clear he's being purposeful on what he's choosing to focus on - and none of it is tangibly important to people's actual lives. Just more Fox News fodder.

That's why I say he is "Trump without Trump". He basically tries to put the Trump wine in the W/Romney bottle.

Someone with Trump policies who behaves more like W would be an extremely formidable candidate
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TodayJunior
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« Reply #39 on: June 14, 2021, 01:20:36 PM »
« Edited: June 14, 2021, 09:17:29 PM by TodayJunior »

I'm not sure why people think the same college+ whites in the suburbs who were turned off by Trump wouldn't be completely turned off by DeSantis as well?

Because DeSantis is smarter, saner and has a much cleaner personal life?

How many people did Trump actually turn off that way?

Exactly. DeSantis is toxic to the suburbs/college+ whites in the same way Trump was - how they act. DeSantis is a buffoon, and also just a jerk. Trump's messy personal life was just one more thing on top of everything else, but it wasn't really the catalyst for why he was so toxic in the suburbs and to college+ whites.

He's a jerk because he called out the media for a blatant character assassination attempt?

Frankly, I believe the media are the most destructive force in our country today. Anyone who stands up to them gets points from me.

DeSantis is literally a 'own the libs' meme come to life. He doesn't do anything to better the lives of his constituents, it's all culture war stuff and him being a smart alec to reporters, the media, Democrats, his opposition, etc.

He doesn't even try and be diplomatic or fair.

His last major events were dealing with Critical Race Theory and Transgender athletes. Pretty clear he's being purposeful on what he's choosing to focus on - and none of it is tangibly important to people's actual lives. Just more Fox News fodder.

That's why I say he is "Trump without Trump". He basically tries to put the Trump wine in the W/Romney bottle.

Pretty much this but it’s gonna fail spectacularly. Unfortunately for the GOP, their voters don’t fall in line the way Dems do. It is impossible to mix the Romney suburban types with the MAGA crowd, and that’s why they will continue to fail at the national level and be in the wilderness for decades. The GOP just cannot win on their own merit. When they do win, it’s only by accident or technicality (2000, 2016). That said, you could argue 2004 was probably their only true win on their terms (bc of the 9/11 factor) since the Reagan era, which is now ancient history, but even that election hinged on Ohio for several days, so it wasn’t a clean win either.

1988 really was their last sizeable non-contested win.
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SN2903
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« Reply #40 on: June 14, 2021, 02:18:12 PM »
« Edited: June 14, 2021, 02:23:26 PM by SN2903 »

Yes he would be slightly stronger than Trump 2016 on paper but the issue is Trump still would bring more energy to the ticket. I still have a gut feeling Trump is going to come back and win in 2024. Everything is setting up for a comeback: No more twitter distraction, the news about China only helps and reaffirms Trump, higher prices/inflation.
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AlterEgo
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« Reply #41 on: June 14, 2021, 02:29:04 PM »

I'm not sure why people think the same college+ whites in the suburbs who were turned off by Trump wouldn't be completely turned off by DeSantis as well?

Because DeSantis is smarter, saner and has a much cleaner personal life?

How many people did Trump actually turn off that way?

Exactly. DeSantis is toxic to the suburbs/college+ whites in the same way Trump was - how they act. DeSantis is a buffoon, and also just a jerk. Trump's messy personal life was just one more thing on top of everything else, but it wasn't really the catalyst for why he was so toxic in the suburbs and to college+ whites.

He's a jerk because he called out the media for a blatant character assassination attempt?

Frankly, I believe the media are the most destructive force in our country today. Anyone who stands up to them gets points from me.

DeSantis is literally a 'own the libs' meme come to life. He doesn't do anything to better the lives of his constituents, it's all culture war stuff and him being a smart alec to reporters, the media, Democrats, his opposition, etc.

He doesn't even try and be diplomatic or fair.

His last major events were dealing with Critical Race Theory and Transgender athletes. Pretty clear he's being purposeful on what he's choosing to focus on - and none of it is tangibly important to people's actual lives. Just more Fox News fodder.

In addition to my previous question, I would also like to see your justification for the above bolded statement as well.
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wbrocks67
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« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2021, 03:08:04 PM »

I'm not sure why people think the same college+ whites in the suburbs who were turned off by Trump wouldn't be completely turned off by DeSantis as well?

Because DeSantis is smarter, saner and has a much cleaner personal life?

How many people did Trump actually turn off that way?

Exactly. DeSantis is toxic to the suburbs/college+ whites in the same way Trump was - how they act. DeSantis is a buffoon, and also just a jerk. Trump's messy personal life was just one more thing on top of everything else, but it wasn't really the catalyst for why he was so toxic in the suburbs and to college+ whites.

He's a jerk because he called out the media for a blatant character assassination attempt?

Frankly, I believe the media are the most destructive force in our country today. Anyone who stands up to them gets points from me.

DeSantis is literally a 'own the libs' meme come to life. He doesn't do anything to better the lives of his constituents, it's all culture war stuff and him being a smart alec to reporters, the media, Democrats, his opposition, etc.

He doesn't even try and be diplomatic or fair.

His last major events were dealing with Critical Race Theory and Transgender athletes. Pretty clear he's being purposeful on what he's choosing to focus on - and none of it is tangibly important to people's actual lives. Just more Fox News fodder.

In addition to my previous question, I would also like to see your justification for the above bolded statement as well.

Has he ever done anything that is bipartisan? Has ever tried to work with the Democrats in Florida? I literally just pointed out that the last two bills he signed were essentially just Fox News culture war BS.
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TrumpBritt24
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« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2021, 09:46:29 PM »

Stronger than 2020 Trump, weaker than 2016 Trump.
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #44 on: June 15, 2021, 03:19:59 AM »

No he isn't and in a blue wave he is gonna lose to Crist, and waves don't happen a yr before the Election, as we won 33H seats 2018 not 2017
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« Reply #45 on: June 15, 2021, 12:45:29 PM »

I'm not sure why people think the same college+ whites in the suburbs who were turned off by Trump wouldn't be completely turned off by DeSantis as well?

Because DeSantis is smarter, saner and has a much cleaner personal life?

How many people did Trump actually turn off that way?

Exactly. DeSantis is toxic to the suburbs/college+ whites in the same way Trump was - how they act. DeSantis is a buffoon, and also just a jerk. Trump's messy personal life was just one more thing on top of everything else, but it wasn't really the catalyst for why he was so toxic in the suburbs and to college+ whites.

He's a jerk because he called out the media for a blatant character assassination attempt?

Frankly, I believe the media are the most destructive force in our country today. Anyone who stands up to them gets points from me.

DeSantis is literally a 'own the libs' meme come to life. He doesn't do anything to better the lives of his constituents, it's all culture war stuff and him being a smart alec to reporters, the media, Democrats, his opposition, etc.

He doesn't even try and be diplomatic or fair.

His last major events were dealing with Critical Race Theory and Transgender athletes. Pretty clear he's being purposeful on what he's choosing to focus on - and none of it is tangibly important to people's actual lives. Just more Fox News fodder.

In addition to my previous question, I would also like to see your justification for the above bolded statement as well.

Has he ever done anything that is bipartisan? Has ever tried to work with the Democrats in Florida? I literally just pointed out that the last two bills he signed were essentially just Fox News culture war BS.

He is pretty liberal on education and environmental issues and is definitely more moderate than Rick Scott .


Also he did a great job on CRT 
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Shaula🏳️‍⚧️
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« Reply #46 on: June 15, 2021, 07:28:09 PM »

Stronger than Trump '20, weaker than Trump '16
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MARGINS6729
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« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2021, 05:22:43 AM »

Yes, most certainly much stronger IMO. He is generally more likable than Trump. He can turn out the rurals but he knows how to behave in front of the mainstream media, and he's signed on to a few bipartisan bills and done a few of those meetings to get a moderate image.

You go outside of your hyperpaetisan circle and you find that most Floridians, even Democrats, don't think he's that bad, and seeing the COVID numbers and the economic performance, even I can't help but agree on some level.

The other difference though is that Biden 2024 is also likelier to be stronger than Biden 2020 or Clinton 2016 due to a healthier economy, also being more likable, and incumbency, so DeSantis being stronger doesn't mean he's gonna necessarily win (in fact I think he's likely to lose).

DeSantis is notoriously bad at working with the media in Florida and he also signed SB90 with only Fox News allowed at the event. He might be better at playing the typical politician more than Trump but his relationship with the press is far from strong.
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MARGINS6729
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« Reply #48 on: June 17, 2021, 05:39:28 AM »
« Edited: June 21, 2021, 01:15:18 AM by MARGINS6729 »

I'm not sure why people think the same college+ whites in the suburbs who were turned off by Trump wouldn't be completely turned off by DeSantis as well?

Because DeSantis is smarter, saner and has a much cleaner personal life?

How many people did Trump actually turn off that way?

Exactly. DeSantis is toxic to the suburbs/college+ whites in the same way Trump was - how they act. DeSantis is a buffoon, and also just a jerk. Trump's messy personal life was just one more thing on top of everything else, but it wasn't really the catalyst for why he was so toxic in the suburbs and to college+ whites.

He's a jerk because he called out the media for a blatant character assassination attempt?

Frankly, I believe the media are the most destructive force in our country today. Anyone who stands up to them gets points from me.

DeSantis is literally a 'own the libs' meme come to life. He doesn't do anything to better the lives of his constituents, it's all culture war stuff and him being a smart alec to reporters, the media, Democrats, his opposition, etc.

He doesn't even try and be diplomatic or fair.

His last major events were dealing with Critical Race Theory and Transgender athletes. Pretty clear he's being purposeful on what he's choosing to focus on - and none of it is tangibly important to people's actual lives. Just more Fox News fodder.

In addition to my previous question, I would also like to see your justification for the above bolded statement as well.

Has he ever done anything that is bipartisan? Has ever tried to work with the Democrats in Florida? I literally just pointed out that the last two bills he signed were essentially just Fox News culture war BS.

He is pretty liberal on education and environmental issues and is definitely more moderate than Rick Scott .


Also he did a great job on CRT  

Critical Race Theory wasn't and isn't taught in Florida schools- DeSantis did a great job on something that doesn't exist. He also has been getting more and more right wing so I don't expect his "moderate" aesthetic to be as strong as it is much longer. But he is likely to win reelection at this point. I don't know how he would handle a presidential race.
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« Reply #49 on: June 17, 2021, 07:53:27 AM »

2022 will be the lithumus test, If he's able to break floridas streak of perpetualy close gubernatorial races then he's probably a better canidate but until then he's both overhyped by republicans as some god-tier canidate despite lacking any impressive electoral perfomances and underestimated by democrats ignoring his countinued popularity and core GOP strenght in terms of red meat.
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