Asian American education and income level chart
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Author Topic: Asian American education and income level chart  (Read 1482 times)
Torie
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« on: June 10, 2021, 10:27:23 AM »
« edited: June 10, 2021, 10:47:24 AM by Torie »

I of course RUSHED to show this to my partner Dan as soon as  I saw that it had Samoans at the bottom of the Asian American education food chain, and requested verification of his claimed educational attainments. He informed me that I should now understand why he finds Roby a much more agreeable  pack member with whom to spend time than the unemployed lawyer.

In other news, Taiwanese should stop being pharmacists, and start being investment bankers in order to catch up with the much richer but slightly less educated Indians.



https://twitter.com/SeanTrende/status/1398338357906882561
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« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2021, 01:24:12 PM »

Interesting that they put Hmong in red (geographic East Asia) and Burmese in teal (Indian subcontinent), I would’ve put both in gold (ASEAN).

I’m assuming the big red circle is “Chinese, except Taiwanese”? There are significant income and educational disparities among (non-Taiwanese) Chinese Americans and to a lesser extent, Indian Americans.
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« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2021, 01:51:57 PM »

I see the group indigenous to the US is second poorest, and third least educated.
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The Free North
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« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2021, 01:56:40 PM »

Fascinating stuff, thank you.
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SInNYC
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« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2021, 08:40:57 AM »

In other news, Taiwanese should stop being pharmacists, and start being investment bankers in order to catch up with the much richer but slightly less educated Indians.

While its plausible that Indians are indeed richer, the figure is household income and it wouldnt surprise me if it was due to family issues. Indians have very low divorce rates even in the US, which leads to higher household income.

Also, I've seen other stats that Indians are one of the few immigrant groups that get poorer in the next generation. The question of course is whether this is because the first generation does so well that they can only go down (since they dont have the capital of rich whites), or its just a statistical quirk due to the second generation being younger.
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« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2021, 10:23:14 AM »

In other news, Taiwanese should stop being pharmacists, and start being investment bankers in order to catch up with the much richer but slightly less educated Indians.

While its plausible that Indians are indeed richer, the figure is household income and it wouldnt surprise me if it was due to family issues. Indians have very low divorce rates even in the US, which leads to higher household income.

Also, I've seen other stats that Indians are one of the few immigrant groups that get poorer in the next generation. The question of course is whether this is because the first generation does so well that they can only go down (since they dont have the capital of rich whites), or its just a statistical quirk due to the second generation being younger.

Genuinely something that is very interesting. Source?

I'd think it's mainly the second reason due to the median age of a U.S.-born Asian Indian American being literally 13 years old. It also could be a mixture of the first reason too especially as the younger generation in the United States tends to not be very well-off due to a multitude of factors.
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SInNYC
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« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2021, 10:27:56 AM »

In other news, Taiwanese should stop being pharmacists, and start being investment bankers in order to catch up with the much richer but slightly less educated Indians.

While its plausible that Indians are indeed richer, the figure is household income and it wouldnt surprise me if it was due to family issues. Indians have very low divorce rates even in the US, which leads to higher household income.

Also, I've seen other stats that Indians are one of the few immigrant groups that get poorer in the next generation. The question of course is whether this is because the first generation does so well that they can only go down (since they dont have the capital of rich whites), or its just a statistical quirk due to the second generation being younger.

Genuinely something that is very interesting. Source?

I'd think it's mainly the second reason due to the median age of a U.S.-born Asian Indian American being literally 13 years old. It also could be a mixture of the first reason too especially as the younger generation in the United States tends to not be very well-off due to a multitude of factors.

No source unfortunately since its something I saw about 20 years back (so maybe its different now). But it was only for adults - there was much discussion about it in Asian groups back then.
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« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2021, 01:30:22 AM »

In other news, Taiwanese should stop being pharmacists, and start being investment bankers in order to catch up with the much richer but slightly less educated Indians.

While its plausible that Indians are indeed richer, the figure is household income and it wouldnt surprise me if it was due to family issues. Indians have very low divorce rates even in the US, which leads to higher household income.

Also, I've seen other stats that Indians are one of the few immigrant groups that get poorer in the next generation. The question of course is whether this is because the first generation does so well that they can only go down (since they dont have the capital of rich whites), or its just a statistical quirk due to the second generation being younger.


There's no real Indian American analogue to the non-college educated, blue-collar/working-class "Chinatown Chinese" enclaves you see in big cities. I guess Punjabi Sikh truck drivers would be the closest socioeconomic equivalent, although I'm guessing the Bangladeshi (i.e. non-Indian) community of NYC is closer.

Honestly I think Indian immigration to the US is simply more thoroughly filtered for the H-1B demographic than any other Asian country.

Taiwanese Americans can be explained by Taiwan's Confucian cultural heritage (this might explain why so many Taiwanese politicians have postgraduate degrees), but I think it's also worth mentioning that historical Taiwanese/ROC immigration to the US was disproportionately from 1949 refugees and their children, who tended to have more intergenerational human/cultural capital than the Taiwanese population at large.
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mileslunn
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« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2021, 02:02:13 AM »

Indian American is interesting as in UK and Canada (don't know about Australia) average income for first generation is below average.  But a lot of Indian Americans come on HB-1 Visa so high skilled jobs like tech sector or medicine which tend to pay quite well.  In UK a lot came back when Commonwealth citizens had automatic right to move there so more working class.  In Canada our recognition of foreign credentials is much weaker than US so you have a lot of those with medical degrees driving cabs in Canada.
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King of Kensington
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« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2021, 01:05:32 PM »

Indo Canadians are much more working class than Indian Americans.  A plurality of Indo Canadians are Sikh.  The Sikh community has a large blue collar element and although not poor, not overrepresented in the professions either. Brampton and Surrey are working class suburbs where around 25% have degrees.
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SInNYC
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« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2021, 12:38:05 AM »

In other news, Taiwanese should stop being pharmacists, and start being investment bankers in order to catch up with the much richer but slightly less educated Indians.

While its plausible that Indians are indeed richer, the figure is household income and it wouldnt surprise me if it was due to family issues. Indians have very low divorce rates even in the US, which leads to higher household income.

Also, I've seen other stats that Indians are one of the few immigrant groups that get poorer in the next generation. The question of course is whether this is because the first generation does so well that they can only go down (since they dont have the capital of rich whites), or its just a statistical quirk due to the second generation being younger.

Genuinely something that is very interesting. Source?

I'd think it's mainly the second reason due to the median age of a U.S.-born Asian Indian American being literally 13 years old. It also could be a mixture of the first reason too especially as the younger generation in the United States tends to not be very well-off due to a multitude of factors.

No source unfortunately since its something I saw about 20 years back (so maybe its different now). But it was only for adults - there was much discussion about it in Asian groups back then.


NYT this week had an article that included wealth of various Asian groups, and while it doesnt say exactly what I alluded to above, it does correlate with it: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/21/us/asians-census-us.html
If you scroll down to the graphic titled "Median household income of Asian groups, by U.S. citizenship status", US born Indians are at about 115K while naturalized Indians are at about 140K. The only other named group in that graphic is Koreans, for who its about 95K-75K going the other direction.

Same caveats as above still apply though.
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« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2021, 01:45:24 AM »
« Edited: August 27, 2021, 01:49:47 AM by khuzifenq »

NYT this week had an article that included wealth of various Asian groups, and while it doesnt say exactly what I alluded to above, it does correlate with it: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/08/21/us/asians-census-us.html



Idk which is more surprising about the VietAm stats- how low the college grad rate is or how high the home ownership rate is.

Bangladeshi and Mongolian households seem noticeably more downscale on average than the Bangladeshi and Mongolian Americans I've met and know IRL.



Why heatcharger dislikes all my posts on AAD, in a nutshell. The bottom part probably isn't a very good proxy for how Vietnamese, Filipino, ethnic Chinese, and Indian Americans voted overall- but it accurately describes their relative partisanship to one another. (A bit surprised how Trumpy majority-Filipino precincts were, although maybe I shouldn't be after seeing the Hawaii precinct-level swing map from 2016?)



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Among Korean households, those headed by a person born in the United States have a median income of $95,000, but ones headed by Koreans who are not citizens have a median income of just $54,000. The gap is even wider for those of Chinese or Taiwanese descent.

Didn't see this coming tbh. Looks like ethnic Chinese intergenerational mobility patterns are closer to Korean or Vietnamese than say Indians or Filipinos due to there not being as many H-1B visa type immigrants as I would've guessed?
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« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2021, 10:12:58 AM »

Compared to other Asians, many Vietnamese are in the rural south, which would explain higher home ownership rates (and also lower education levels). Think fishermen in the bayou. Also, the second wave of Vietnamese immigrants was much less educated than the first wave, though their kids seem to be getting educated.

Most of the Bangladeshi I run across are working class (I even run across a homeless one who lives in a park near me). They work in Indian restaurants, etc., especially so in NYC, so most Americans think they are Indian.
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Tintrlvr
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« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2021, 03:31:46 PM »

Indian American is interesting as in UK and Canada (don't know about Australia) average income for first generation is below average.  But a lot of Indian Americans come on HB-1 Visa so high skilled jobs like tech sector or medicine which tend to pay quite well.  In UK a lot came back when Commonwealth citizens had automatic right to move there so more working class.  In Canada our recognition of foreign credentials is much weaker than US so you have a lot of those with medical degrees driving cabs in Canada.

I think the answer is that working class (by developed-world standards) Indians who emigrate mostly go to Commonwealth countries where they have families and other contacts who emigrated during the 20th century, which leaves only wealthy Indian emigrees to move to the United States. It's a reinforcing cycle, of course.
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« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2021, 10:38:04 PM »
« Edited: November 09, 2021, 10:54:23 AM by khuzifenq »

It's interesting: most of the Republican Indian-Americans that I've encountered come from upper-class suburban families (I'm an example of one).  By contrast, the working-class Indian-Americans I know skew heavily Democratic.  

2020 may have changed that cause while this is anecdotel the working class family members I have were much more likely to vote Trump than the more upper middle class types even though they used to be much more solidly democratic

Nope, this was largely the case in 2020 (at least in my own social experiences) -- though I understand that this runs counter-intuitive to wholesale 2020 trends.  

As a whole, though, we're still a relatively Democratic-voting group.  I've always found this interesting considering the stereotype of cultural conservatism that surrounds us.  Hell, I still can't wear leggings-as-pants around my grandma haha.  

I will say that the (mostly age 18-35 and US-raised) Indian Americans on Atlas seem more right-wing than the ones I knew growing up and from college.

Indian Americans are definitely the most "white-adjacent" major Asian group. It makes total sense that they (would if they don't already) vote like Jewish Americans given the broad similarities on cultural values and class/occupational profile.

Indians are also the largest single Asian group in VA, so if there was a significant R swing among Asian American voters we should expect major R shifts in Indian-heavy areas, along with Chinese, Korean, Vietnamese, and Filipino-heavy areas in NoVA and maybe Hampton Roads + Richmond.
And oh you don't need to tell me that many of us Indoan-Americans are white-adjacent.  I'm in the midst of Dhanteras tonight, but I still love my Starbucks and Lululemon dammit!

Wasn't sure which PG&D or Trends thread to necro for this (spoiler: there are a ton of them), but I don't think income or educational attainment are very good metrics for determining which non-white social groups are the most "white-adjacent". If you apply that logic to white Americans, that's like saying NIMBY-ish Marin County retirees are whiter than Elliot County KY Obama-Trump voters lol.

IMO Indian Americans are more white-adjacent than the other big Asian American ancestry groups due to:

1) Literally looking more similar to Europeans than East/Southeast Asians do if you ignore skin tone. Also the Indians who immigrate to the US tend to be lighter-skinned and more white-passing than the general population.

2) Greater preexisting English proficiency compared to immigrants from other Asian countries with similar education attainment, due to English serving as a lingua franca in post-colonial India.

There are also differences in business culture between India and the Confucianist Asian countries that have been used to explain why foreign-born and 2nd+ gen Indian Americans are better represented in tech leadership and management than their Chinese American counterparts.

3) Earlier immigrant waves were more likely to be of cosmopolitan urban elites than more recent ones? (Not 100% sure about that, but I once listened to a podcast on Indian political demography that implied this)

4) Religion. Indian Americans are majority Hindu and have a large Christian minority. This distinguishes them from Pakistani and Bangladeshi Americans (the link attributes India’s relative individualism compared to Pakistan and Bangladesh to its Hindu cultural heritage, which makes it more similar to Western Europe and less similar to the rest of rice-growing Asia in that regard), who are probably more socially other-ized for being Muslim than Indian Americans are for being Hindu.

In my experience, Christian Indian Americans are much more likely to date/marry White than their Hindu counterparts. I also feel like 2nd gen Indian Americans in my neck of the woods are slightly more likely to do so than their East/Southeast Asian counterparts- although this may be due to parental socioeconomic status and educational attainment?

I might be biased because I'm on the West Coast, and East/Southeast outnumber South here by a lot outside of more upscale ethnoburbs and tech hubs. So some of my perception of group differences can probably be explained by average educational attainment and occupational clustering.
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2021, 08:08:21 PM »

Interesting that they put Hmong in red (geographic East Asia) and Burmese in teal (Indian subcontinent), I would’ve put both in gold (ASEAN).

I’m assuming the big red circle is “Chinese, except Taiwanese”? There are significant income and educational disparities among (non-Taiwanese) Chinese Americans and to a lesser extent, Indian Americans.
That should be a mistake. I guess they think that Hmong come from mainland China. But Hmong in US are mainly from SE Asia. Puting Burmese with Indian instead of SE Asia is clearly wrong.
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« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2021, 03:44:40 PM »

Most of these Filipinos were in America for a quite long time. In fact after nearly 375 years of being colonized by the Spanish Empire America colonized Philippines and helped the pre war country have a US type of government. This is why CA/HI/NV have the more higher percentage of Fil Ams in America. Saint Malo was in fact the first Asian American settlement in the country.
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« Reply #17 on: November 15, 2021, 05:39:29 PM »

Most of these Filipinos were in America for a quite long time. In fact after nearly 375 years of being colonized by the Spanish Empire America colonized Philippines and helped the pre war country have a US type of government. This is why CA/HI/NV have the more higher percentage of Fil Ams in America. Saint Malo was in fact the first Asian American settlement in the country.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/17/us/filipino-american-history-louisiana-climate/index.html

Most of today’s Filipino Americans (at least the ones I’ve met IRL) are post-1965 immigrants or the children of said immigrants. I know a lot of Filipinos were able to let their families immigrate to the US after serving in the Navy.
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« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2021, 09:26:00 PM »

Most of these Filipinos were in America for a quite long time. In fact after nearly 375 years of being colonized by the Spanish Empire America colonized Philippines and helped the pre war country have a US type of government. This is why CA/HI/NV have the more higher percentage of Fil Ams in America. Saint Malo was in fact the first Asian American settlement in the country.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/17/us/filipino-american-history-louisiana-climate/index.html

Most of today’s Filipino Americans (at least the ones I’ve met IRL) are post-1965 immigrants or the children of said immigrants. I know a lot of Filipinos were able to let their families immigrate to the US after serving in the Navy.
I see. Interesting enough Bobby Scott a congressman is half black half Filipino. Jay Z is unconfirmed to have Filipino ancestry as well.
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« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2023, 03:55:05 PM »

Re: "Opinion of educated Republicans?"

@Vosem (deleting wall of text)

Before you start going on too much about everyone's favorite model minorities of Asians, you better understand that that is EXTREMELY depending on which Asian American subset you are talking about. Some groups like Japanese Americans who've been here for in cases over a century and a half, and many of immigrated as engineer or other professional positions, non-shockingly enough do rather well. And yes there are many examples of Vietnamese who have done well, but they had a very strong social safety net within the community that helped finance purchases of small businesses, etc. Not to mention substantial support from the US government helping them to relocate and get established.

But then you have other subsets such as cambodians and Hmong who have every bit as much the problem of ghettoization, poverty, gang affiliation among youth, Etc as African Americans or Native Americans. Hell, even in New York City the long established Chinese community has among the highest unemployment rate of any ethnic group in the city. And no, just because some of them are paid off under the table in Chinatown doesn't make any different from Hispanics and indeed many white ethnics immigrants like the Russians and the polish who are similarly so paid.

Again, please go right ahead patting yourself on the back for being so smart to figure out that racism's effect on the economy is a combination of negligible and ancient history, and is really just used by progressives to Gin up minority votes. Lord knows blacks and other minorities can't figure out on their own that they're being screwed by the economy over racism.

As a Asian Vietnamese American, I will stay silent on this. I have a lot of opinions on this, but for the sake of this thread....

The only thing I will add is I'm not sure if the Chinese diaspora in NYC actually has the highest poverty rate among all ethnic groups. As far as I know, Asians in NYC have a higher poverty rate than any other racial group; I have no reason to believe the relative rates of White, Black, Latino, and Asian poverty have changed that much in the last 5-6 years.
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King of Kensington
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« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2023, 03:59:07 PM »

NYC Chinese seem to be more working class than elsewhere.  There are no Chinese ethnoburban type concentrations like there are in California.  No San Marino or Cupertino-type places. 
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