Do you think there will be a religious revival in the west?
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  Do you think there will be a religious revival in the west?
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Author Topic: Do you think there will be a religious revival in the west?  (Read 502 times)
Bootes Void
iamaganster123
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« on: June 07, 2021, 01:07:07 AM »
« edited: June 08, 2021, 01:06:09 PM by Bootes Void »

There was a revival in religion in the west in the mid 1800s and mid 1980s. Do you think that in a increasingly secular society that there would be backlash against it and people become more religious again or do you think the west will continue to be nonreligious and not changing
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John Dule
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« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2021, 02:08:44 AM »

Nope!
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Vosem
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« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2021, 02:41:59 AM »

Yes, the advantage in fertility rate provided by religion pretty strongly suggests this. I don't think the answer even could be 'no' without very large-scale technological progress.
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PSOL
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« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2021, 07:57:58 AM »

Outside of the United States, I really donít.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2021, 09:55:25 AM »

The secularization thesis in sociology is largely considered outdated, and most serious sociologists have either moved to a complexity model or to a desecularization hypothesis.
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L.D. Smith
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« Reply #5 on: June 08, 2021, 12:22:29 PM »

Yes.

These things always have an ebb and flow. I suspect post-postmodernism will have such as a tenet.
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TDAS04
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« Reply #6 on: June 08, 2021, 12:56:43 PM »

There was a revival in religion in the west in the mid 1800s and mid 2900s. Do you think that in a increasingly secular society that there would be backlash against it and people become more religious again or do you think the west will continue to be nonreligious and not changing

So youíre predicting yes, but not for 900 years from now?
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2021, 01:28:08 PM »

In other shocking news, libertarians still donít understand sociological trends.
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John Dule
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« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2021, 04:07:30 PM »

In other shocking news, libertarians still donít understand sociological trends.

And sociologists do?
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2021, 11:48:44 AM »
« Edited: June 10, 2021, 11:52:33 AM by Kingpoleon »

Iím hardly an arch defender of sociology, but yes, sociologists have refined their models & correctly predicted religious trends.

I recommend On Secularization: Towards a Revised General Theory by Martin, A Secular Age by Taylor, and A Rumor of Angels by Berger. The second is pretty complicated and not intrinsically as ontologically sociological as the other two.
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Pink Panther
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« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2021, 08:48:37 PM »

Probably, but I have no idea whatsoever what religion/ideology(Certain WW2 ideology, i.e.), since this generally happens a lot throughout history for the West.
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John Dule
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« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2021, 10:45:39 PM »

Iím hardly an arch defender of sociology, but yes, sociologists have refined their models & correctly predicted religious trends.

I recommend On Secularization: Towards a Revised General Theory by Martin, A Secular Age by Taylor, and A Rumor of Angels by Berger. The second is pretty complicated and not intrinsically as ontologically sociological as the other two.

And will this be on the final, or is that non-cumulative?
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #12 on: June 11, 2021, 12:01:13 AM »

      I expect something of the sort to occur in 50-100 years, once the West enters into serious decline. Wealth unfortunately tends to alienate people from God.
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John Dule
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« Reply #13 on: June 11, 2021, 12:05:00 AM »

      I expect something of the sort to occur in 50-100 years, once the West enters into serious decline. Wealth unfortunately tends to alienate people from God.

Or perhaps desperation makes people vulnerable to cults. Equally plausible!
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Southern Deputy Speaker Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #14 on: June 11, 2021, 12:05:48 AM »

      I expect something of the sort to occur in 50-100 years, once the West enters into serious decline. Wealth unfortunately tends to alienate people from God.
That certainly seems possible. Religiousity went up in Rome as general prosperity went down, in the 300s and 400s.
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2021, 01:21:14 AM »

And will this be on the final, or is that non-cumulative?
If you want to get at the truth as to whether or not religion will increase in the general American populace, as it already is among scientists and other small groups, then you should study the sociology of it. If you donít? Then keep on randomly saying ďNo!Ē to questions like this, but most atheists have made a habit of chanting ďIt is always wrong, at every time and in every place, to believe something without sufficient evidence.Ē
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Samof94
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« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2021, 07:25:03 AM »

      I expect something of the sort to occur in 50-100 years, once the West enters into serious decline. Wealth unfortunately tends to alienate people from God.
That certainly seems possible. Religiousity went up in Rome as general prosperity went down, in the 300s and 400s.
The difference was that the old system wasnít about belief, it was about ritual. Also, there are societies that are rich and religious like any Gulf oil dictatorship.
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The Exaltation of Inanna
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« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2021, 08:42:00 AM »

Speaking from within the queer community, in some ways a revival is already ongoing in certain spheres. The suffering and oppressed, and those who have been rejected by society at large, have always been the foundation of religion, and in a time as confusing and draining as late-capitalist modernity plenty of folk find themselves with a need to live for a greater purpose and love something greater than themselves. I was born to two people who had left faith in young adulthood, only to find myself lacking in grounding, and yearning for release from all the woes that being trans imparts, at that same age. After finding Goddess I have felt infinitely more connected to nature, my female identity, and my queer forebears and ancestors, and this is an increasingly common experience.

This is still movement against the current of most of society at the moment, but especially with a grim future of more entrenched wealth and environmental destruction stretching out ahead of us the forces to continue the trend exist if people continue to find new solace in faith. Even if older faiths remain in decline, the future may be ripe for a new movement that captures the mood of the era.
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SecularGlobalist
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« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2021, 08:49:11 AM »

Yes.  Almost assuredly. 

The forward march toward secularization is not a guarantee.

But more like 3 steps forward, and 2 steps back. 
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Associate Justice PiT
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« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2021, 11:26:04 AM »

      I expect something of the sort to occur in 50-100 years, once the West enters into serious decline. Wealth unfortunately tends to alienate people from God.
That certainly seems possible. Religiousity went up in Rome as general prosperity went down, in the 300s and 400s.
The difference was that the old system wasnít about belief, it was about ritual. Also, there are societies that are rich and religious like any Gulf oil dictatorship.

     The effect isn't instant; America spent many years being one of the most prosperous countries in the world and also very religious. The wealthiest societies tend to move away from faith, and I suspect that in a century the oil-rich gulf states will be much more secular vis-a-vis the median country than they are today.
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Senator-elect Scott🦋
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« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2021, 12:52:55 PM »

      I expect something of the sort to occur in 50-100 years, once the West enters into serious decline. Wealth unfortunately tends to alienate people from God.

Or perhaps desperation makes people vulnerable to cults. Equally plausible!

How do you know you're not in a cult? You seem very convinced that everybody else is.
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John Dule
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« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2021, 02:35:21 PM »

And will this be on the final, or is that non-cumulative?
If you want to get at the truth as to whether or not religion will increase in the general American populace, as it already is among scientists and other small groups, then you should study the sociology of it. If you donít? Then keep on randomly saying ďNo!Ē to questions like this, but most atheists have made a habit of chanting ďIt is always wrong, at every time and in every place, to believe something without sufficient evidence.Ē

In case it wasn't clear, that was an invitation for you to put forth your argument in your own words and start a discussion (rather than trying to assign me a reading list every time we disagree).

How do you know you're not in a cult? You seem very convinced that everybody else is.

I don't believe that at all. And as for myself, I'm not a member of any groups or organizations whatsoever, let alone cults.
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afleitch
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« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2021, 02:40:22 PM »

Speaking from within the queer community, in some ways a revival is already ongoing in certain spheres. The suffering and oppressed, and those who have been rejected by society at large, have always been the foundation of religion, and in a time as confusing and draining as late-capitalist modernity plenty of folk find themselves with a need to live for a greater purpose and love something greater than themselves. I was born to two people who had left faith in young adulthood, only to find myself lacking in grounding, and yearning for release from all the woes that being trans imparts, at that same age. After finding Goddess I have felt infinitely more connected to nature, my female identity, and my queer forebears and ancestors, and this is an increasingly common experience.

This is still movement against the current of most of society at the moment, but especially with a grim future of more entrenched wealth and environmental destruction stretching out ahead of us the forces to continue the trend exist if people continue to find new solace in faith. Even if older faiths remain in decline, the future may be ripe for a new movement that captures the mood of the era.

Queerness itself is spirituality. Which I think is missed by those religious and non-religious outside of that.
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Samof94
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« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2021, 05:50:00 PM »

      I expect something of the sort to occur in 50-100 years, once the West enters into serious decline. Wealth unfortunately tends to alienate people from God.
That certainly seems possible. Religiousity went up in Rome as general prosperity went down, in the 300s and 400s.
The difference was that the old system wasnít about belief, it was about ritual. Also, there are societies that are rich and religious like any Gulf oil dictatorship.

     The effect isn't instant; America spent many years being one of the most prosperous countries in the world and also very religious. The wealthiest societies tend to move away from faith, and I suspect that in a century the oil-rich gulf states will be much more secular vis-a-vis the median country than they are today.
Them secularizing one day when the police runs out but not on western lines makes sense.
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Senator-elect Scott🦋
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« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2021, 09:42:28 PM »

How do you know you're not in a cult? You seem very convinced that everybody else is.

I don't believe that at all. And as for myself, I'm not a member of any groups or organizations whatsoever, let alone cults.

So how do you define "cult"? Must they always be of a religious nature? QAnon is clearly a cult to you even though it has no formal set of moral rules or any underlying philosophy concerning God or otherwise. Is the Boy Scouts a cult? Political parties? Fraternities?

How about small religions in the West which may or may not involve a deity but are of a religious nature nonetheless, i.e. Buddhism and Daoism?
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