Australia General Discussion 4.0: It ain’t easy under Albanese

[AustralianSwingVoter]

People are assuming they'll be Astute class subs, which would be great news for BAE in Barrow and a feather in the cap for the government's "Global Britain" tilt to the Indo-Pacific. French foreign policy analysts are spitting feathers on Twitter.

Seems unlikely, all our foreign policy media are reporting the Defence Department prefer the Virginia Class to the Astute class. The government has generally preferred American contractors to Europeans in recent years. ScoMo also has a desperate need to suck up to Biden so he doesn't get too harsh on our non-existent climate policy.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

People are assuming they'll be Astute class subs, which would be great news for BAE in Barrow and a feather in the cap for the government's "Global Britain" tilt to the Indo-Pacific. French foreign policy analysts are spitting feathers on Twitter.

Seems unlikely, all our foreign policy media are reporting the Defence Department prefer the Virginia Class to the Astute class. The government has generally preferred American contractors to Europeans in recent years. ScoMo also has a desperate need to suck up to Biden so he doesn't get too harsh on our non-existent climate policy.

Hasn't been decided yet what submarine it will be, 18 month consultation to work that out

https://twitter.com/JonathanLea10/status/1438324009402200065?s=20

It could be the Astute, or a hybrid design between Astute and Virginia, or even if they do go with the Virginia class it will likely include Astute sonar tech etc..

The focus of Boris in the press conference was "this guarantees jobs here" rather than geostrategic concerns per se.

[WMS]

People are assuming they'll be Astute class subs, which would be great news for BAE in Barrow and a feather in the cap for the government's "Global Britain" tilt to the Indo-Pacific. French foreign policy analysts are spitting feathers on Twitter.

Perfidious Albion honhonhonhonhon

[rc18]

People are assuming they'll be Astute class subs, which would be great news for BAE in Barrow and a feather in the cap for the government's "Global Britain" tilt to the Indo-Pacific. French foreign policy analysts are spitting feathers on Twitter.

Seems unlikely, all our foreign policy media are reporting the Defence Department prefer the Virginia Class to the Astute class. The government has generally preferred American contractors to Europeans in recent years. ScoMo also has a desperate need to suck up to Biden so he doesn't get too harsh on our non-existent climate policy.

Who knows? But I'd be surprised if the US agrees export of Virginias, especially if it isn't Americans making them. Given Australia is very keen on building the submarines themselves we are talking more about licensing the design, which isn't really something the US has been keen on. The nature of the announcement makes far more sense if the base design is a licensing of the Astute, which includes US nuclear propulsion tech.

[AustralianSwingVoter]

The focus of Boris in the press conference was "this guarantees jobs here" rather than geostrategic concerns per se.

Which was very odd given we've made it clear that the Nuclear Submarines will be built in Adelaide, just like the cancelled French subs.

[Statilius the Epicurean]

The focus of Boris in the press conference was "this guarantees jobs here" rather than geostrategic concerns per se.

Which was very odd given we've made it clear that the Nuclear Submarines will be built in Adelaide, just like the cancelled French subs.

Well, France is upset at this manoeuvre same as the UK is pleased. Perhaps both are confused.

[GoTfan]

Personally, I think the only reason ScoMo's pursuing this is pure electoral politics. His government is scandal-ridden, with an alleged rapist serving on the frontbench and still refusing to act on anything actually important, so I'd betmy house on him purusing this purely so he can beat the China war drums in the election next year.

Speaking as someone on the ground in SA too, a lot of people are pretty uneasy at the prospect of anything nuclear being built in Australia, and particularly here, since Adelaide and many of its suburbs are on a fault line.

[(no subject)]

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Albanese has announced he's completely 1000% in favour of the nuclear subs because of course he has. However he's found the funniest possible target, and is (seriously) calling for the government to promise we won't acquire or develop nuclear weapons!

Speaking as someone on the ground in SA too, a lot of people are pretty uneasy at the prospect of anything nuclear being built in Australia, and particularly here, since Adelaide and many of its suburbs are on a fault line.

If Adelaide is genuinely too concerned with the nuclear subs it's not hard to fix. The government will just propose building them in US dockyards and basing them in Perth and see how long until the Adelaide opposition folds.

[GoTfan]

This is perhaps one of the dumbest memes I've seen on this site.

[morgieb]

So now alledged "progressives" are tweeting "Thin Blue Line" and "Thank You Vic Pol" style nonsense.

This is good as it means I feel comfortable knowing who would tell the Nazis about Anne Frank.

[GoTfan]

So now alledged "progressives" are tweeting "Thin Blue Line" and "Thank You Vic Pol" style nonsense.

This is good as it means I feel comfortable knowing who would tell the Nazis about Anne Frank.

Don't f(inks)ing compare victims of a genocide to a bunch of selfish, entitled whingers who decided to rush a police line because "COVID ISN'T REAL WAKE UP SHEEPLE!!!!!"

[AustralianSwingVoter]

Porter's jumped before he was belatedly pushed. The mystery donor saga was the straw that broke the camels back and it now looks all but certain that he'll retire rather than try to recontest the next election.

[WMS]

This is perhaps one of the dumbest memes I've seen on this site.

"This arrangement would witness a further dramatic loss of Australian sovereignty, as material dependency on the United States robbed Australia of any freedom or choice in any engagement Australia may deem appropriate," Keating said.

However, former Labor prime minister Kevin Rudd, who is also president of the Asia Society, cautioned the Morrison government against direct criticism of China.

"It is too overt in the way in which it uses its language on these questions," Mr Rudd told 730.

So AUKUS is a dramatic loss of Australian sovereignty, while being afraid to directly criticize China isn’t? Or is the U.S. the only country Australia isn’t allowed to cooperate with?

[GoTfan]

This is perhaps one of the dumbest memes I've seen on this site.

"This arrangement would witness a further dramatic loss of Australian sovereignty, as material dependency on the United States robbed Australia of any freedom or choice in any engagement Australia may deem appropriate," Keating said.

However, former Labor prime minister Kevin Rudd, who is also president of the Asia Society, cautioned the Morrison government against direct criticism of China.

"It is too overt in the way in which it uses its language on these questions," Mr Rudd told 730.

So AUKUS is a dramatic loss of Australian sovereignty, while being afraid to directly criticize China isn’t? Or is the U.S. the only country Australia isn’t allowed to cooperate with?

Grow a brain and realise what the actual reason for it is.

Morrison is leading a government ridden by scandal after scandal despite Murdoch covering his back 24/7 and knows he can't win the next election. The only way he can win is by yelling the words "Labor" and "China" in the same sentence as many times as he can.

That's literally it.

[WMS]

This is perhaps one of the dumbest memes I've seen on this site.

"This arrangement would witness a further dramatic loss of Australian sovereignty, as material dependency on the United States robbed Australia of any freedom or choice in any engagement Australia may deem appropriate," Keating said.

However, former Labor prime minister Kevin Rudd, who is also president of the Asia Society, cautioned the Morrison government against direct criticism of China.

"It is too overt in the way in which it uses its language on these questions," Mr Rudd told 730.

So AUKUS is a dramatic loss of Australian sovereignty, while being afraid to directly criticize China isn’t? Or is the U.S. the only country Australia isn’t allowed to cooperate with?

Grow a brain and realise what the actual reason for it is.

Morrison is leading a government ridden by scandal after scandal despite Murdoch covering his back 24/7 and knows he can't win the next election. The only way he can win is by yelling the words "Labor" and "China" in the same sentence as many times as he can.

That's literally it.

It doesn’t take a brain to consider that both possibilities are accurate: it is both a brilliant strategic move and a Coalition electoral ploy.

At the same time, the positions of the two former Labor PM’s and the Greens seem dodgy. I’m certain opposing the Americans and supporting the Chinese will be the electoral magic needed to finally dislodge the Coalition (long overdue) oh wait no it seems like the opposite of that

[S019]

This is perhaps one of the dumbest memes I've seen on this site.

"This arrangement would witness a further dramatic loss of Australian sovereignty, as material dependency on the United States robbed Australia of any freedom or choice in any engagement Australia may deem appropriate," Keating said.

However, former Labor prime minister Kevin Rudd, who is also president of the Asia Society, cautioned the Morrison government against direct criticism of China.

"It is too overt in the way in which it uses its language on these questions," Mr Rudd told 730.

So AUKUS is a dramatic loss of Australian sovereignty, while being afraid to directly criticize China isn’t? Or is the U.S. the only country Australia isn’t allowed to cooperate with?

Grow a brain and realise what the actual reason for it is.

Morrison is leading a government ridden by scandal after scandal despite Murdoch covering his back 24/7 and knows he can't win the next election. The only way he can win is by yelling the words "Labor" and "China" in the same sentence as many times as he can.

That's literally it.

It doesn’t take a brain to consider that both possibilities are accurate: it is both a brilliant strategic move and a Coalition electoral ploy.

At the same time, the positions of the two former Labor PM’s and the Greens seem dodgy. I’m certain opposing the Americans and supporting the Chinese will be the electoral magic needed to finally dislodge the Coalition (long overdue) oh wait no it seems like the opposite of that

From what I've read, this seems like a bit of a dishonest take on Keating, the gist of his argument is basically that Australia would be dragged into war with China if the US and China ever had a war. As Australia is its own country and not a US puppet or something like that, it does make sense that they might not want to be dragged into possibly unwinnable wars. On the topic of winning the election, a new Newspoll came out today showing Labor leading by 6, and Labor hasn't trailed in the 2 Party Vote in a poll since January. Of course, the election is still a ways away, but as of right now, Labor is in the lead, for however much that's worth. Also Australia's relations with China really aren't anywhere near as hostile as Chinese and US relations, and again it's not like Keating is even being explicitly pro-China.

[Pericles]

If I have to guess, I still think Scott Morrison wins since he's ahead on the leadership metrics and he'll be more popular once everyone is vaccinated (just as Boris' errors faded away after the vaccine rollout). However, it looks like a close one, and Albanese is making the right moves to win. So I really hope that Morrison's standing actually is weak and Labor can finally pull out a win.

[GoTfan]

This is perhaps one of the dumbest memes I've seen on this site.

"This arrangement would witness a further dramatic loss of Australian sovereignty, as material dependency on the United States robbed Australia of any freedom or choice in any engagement Australia may deem appropriate," Keating said.

However, former Labor prime minister Kevin Rudd, who is also president of the Asia Society, cautioned the Morrison government against direct criticism of China.

"It is too overt in the way in which it uses its language on these questions," Mr Rudd told 730.

So AUKUS is a dramatic loss of Australian sovereignty, while being afraid to directly criticize China isn’t? Or is the U.S. the only country Australia isn’t allowed to cooperate with?

Grow a brain and realise what the actual reason for it is.

Morrison is leading a government ridden by scandal after scandal despite Murdoch covering his back 24/7 and knows he can't win the next election. The only way he can win is by yelling the words "Labor" and "China" in the same sentence as many times as he can.

That's literally it.

It doesn’t take a brain to consider that both possibilities are accurate: it is both a brilliant strategic move and a Coalition electoral ploy.

At the same time, the positions of the two former Labor PM’s and the Greens seem dodgy. I’m certain opposing the Americans and supporting the Chinese will be the electoral magic needed to finally dislodge the Coalition (long overdue) oh wait no it seems like the opposite of that

Okay, well again, Morrison would not have made this decision if he was behind in the polls. It's pretty blatant this was a purely political decision and nothing else.

Get out of your stupid "MURICA NUMBER ONE!!!" mindset for five seconds and realise that maybe not everyone sees you as saints.

[(no subject)]

Pacifism is a suicide squad. The conchies got exactly what they deserved during WWI

[GoTfan]

Pacifism is a suicide squad. The conchies got exactly what they deserved during WWI

Nuclear war leads to suicide as well.

That prospect seems to be lost on a lot of people here.

[CumbrianLefty]

Pacifism is a suicide squad. The conchies got exactly what they deserved during WWI

Ah yes, WW1 - that well known Just War.

[(no subject)]

My great grandfather who fought on the Western Front would regard your defeatism with rightful contempt…

[GoTfan]

My great grandfather who fought on the Western Front would regard your defeatism with rightful contempt…

This is another thing that ticks me off. Criticising people for being overly hawkish or pursuing arguably stupid measures in an attempt to win an election is not defeatism.

We do not live in the wolrd of WW1 anymore. We live in a world where the push of a button can literally destroy humanity, so maybe we need to stop approaching this as a zero-sum game?

[WMS]

This is perhaps one of the dumbest memes I've seen on this site.

"This arrangement would witness a further dramatic loss of Australian sovereignty, as material dependency on the United States robbed Australia of any freedom or choice in any engagement Australia may deem appropriate," Keating said.

However, former Labor prime minister Kevin Rudd, who is also president of the Asia Society, cautioned the Morrison government against direct criticism of China.

"It is too overt in the way in which it uses its language on these questions," Mr Rudd told 730.

So AUKUS is a dramatic loss of Australian sovereignty, while being afraid to directly criticize China isn’t? Or is the U.S. the only country Australia isn’t allowed to cooperate with?

Grow a brain and realise what the actual reason for it is.

Morrison is leading a government ridden by scandal after scandal despite Murdoch covering his back 24/7 and knows he can't win the next election. The only way he can win is by yelling the words "Labor" and "China" in the same sentence as many times as he can.

That's literally it.

It doesn’t take a brain to consider that both possibilities are accurate: it is both a brilliant strategic move and a Coalition electoral ploy.

At the same time, the positions of the two former Labor PM’s and the Greens seem dodgy. I’m certain opposing the Americans and supporting the Chinese will be the electoral magic needed to finally dislodge the Coalition (long overdue) oh wait no it seems like the opposite of that

From what I've read, this seems like a bit of a dishonest take on Keating, the gist of his argument is basically that Australia would be dragged into war with China if the US and China ever had a war. As Australia is its own country and not a US puppet or something like that, it does make sense that they might not want to be dragged into possibly unwinnable wars. On the topic of winning the election, a new Newspoll came out today showing Labor leading by 6, and Labor hasn't trailed in the 2 Party Vote in a poll since January. Of course, the election is still a ways away, but as of right now, Labor is in the lead, for however much that's worth. Also Australia's relations with China really aren't anywhere near as hostile as Chinese and US relations, and again it's not like Keating is even being explicitly pro-China.

Now this is a respectable take that doesn’t begin by accusing me of being brainless! I would say that the news reports I’ve read on this decision have mentioned that China’s much more aggressive foreign policy under Xi as being a big reason for Australia agreeing to this pact. In 2016 I could see that being a stronger stance to take, but not as much today.