Can you be anti-BLM without being anti-black?

[wimp]

see thread.

[Chips]

Yes.

[Terlylane]

Yes. BLM is a garbage organization which doesn’t care about black lives.

And for all those who say “that’s only the organization not the movement as a whole”, the movement started from the organization. They are one in the same. If you want a racial justice and anti police brutality decentralized rallying cry, find another slogan.

[PSOL]

I don’t see how tbh, the ten point program they have is very lukewarm and are the simplest of reforms for preserving black lives.

[President Punxsutawney Phil]

Yes

[Ferguson97]

No.

[AGA]

Obviously. Being against all the property destruction and violence caused by the BLM movement is not anti-black.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I don’t see how tbh, the ten point program they have is very lukewarm and are the simplest of reforms for preserving black lives.

This was surprisingly hard to find. It's been taken off of their website and all of my top search results are about a fake BLM manifesto spread by trolls that was just copied out of old Italian fascist propaganda. These appear to be the real points:

   1. Ending "broken windows" policing, which aggressively polices minor crimes in an attempt to stop larger ones
   2. Using community oversight for misconduct rather than having police decide what consequences officers face
   3. Making standards for reporting police use of deadly force
   4. Independently investigating and prosecuting police misconduct
   5. Having the racial makeup of police departments reflect the communities they serve
   6. Requiring officers to wear body cameras
   7. Providing more training for police officers
   8. Ending for-profit policing practices
   9. Ending the police use of military equipment
   10. Implementing police union contracts that hold officers accountable for misconduct

If we ignore the most ambiguous items, points #1 and #2 are the most contentious here.

The experience of cities that have reduced policing around property crimes most dramatically shows that there is a point at which ignoring minor crimes creates quality of life problems, drives people and businesses away from cities, and increases the risk of more serious crimes. There's a balance to be struck on this.

I honestly can't tell you how "broken windows policing" was implemented in practice (this appears to me a knowledge gap I should work to redress), but by my memory, the document from which BWP was theoretically drawn discussed the variety of informal actions a neighborhood police officer undertook to maintain order and cleanliness on his little piece of earth--shooing away troublemakers, herding the local kids away from trouble, etc. This, of course, is hard to legislate as a philosophy.

And, if we are being serious, how many people want to live in an area where petty property and disorder crimes go unpunished and undeterred? There's a strain of policing philosophy that contends that these incidents, rather than what we usually consider "major crimes" do more to shape a resident's impression of an area, and undermine social capital and public confidence.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

I don’t see how tbh, the ten point program they have is very lukewarm and are the simplest of reforms for preserving black lives.

This was surprisingly hard to find. It's been taken off of their website and all of my top search results are about a fake BLM manifesto spread by trolls that was just copied out of old Italian fascist propaganda. These appear to be the real points:

   1. Ending "broken windows" policing, which aggressively polices minor crimes in an attempt to stop larger ones
   2. Using community oversight for misconduct rather than having police decide what consequences officers face
   3. Making standards for reporting police use of deadly force
   4. Independently investigating and prosecuting police misconduct
   5. Having the racial makeup of police departments reflect the communities they serve
   6. Requiring officers to wear body cameras
   7. Providing more training for police officers
   8. Ending for-profit policing practices
   9. Ending the police use of military equipment
   10. Implementing police union contracts that hold officers accountable for misconduct

If we ignore the most ambiguous items, points #1 and #2 are the most contentious here.

The experience of cities that have reduced policing around property crimes most dramatically shows that there is a point at which ignoring minor crimes creates quality of life problems, drives people and businesses away from cities, and increases the risk of more serious crimes. There's a balance to be struck on this.

I honestly can't tell you how "broken windows policing" was implemented in practice (this appears to me a knowledge gap I should work to redress), but by my memory, the document from which BWP was theoretically drawn discussed the variety of informal actions a neighborhood police officer undertook to maintain order and cleanliness on his little piece of earth--shooing away troublemakers, herding the local kids away from trouble, etc. This, of course, is hard to legislate as a philosophy.

And, if we are being serious, how many people want to live in an area where petty property and disorder crimes go unpunished and undeterred? There's a strain of policing philosophy that contends that these incidents, rather than what we usually consider "major crimes" do more to shape a resident's impression of an area, and undermine social capital and public confidence.

This is from Kelling, a co-author of the original article:
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2015/08/broken-windows-theory-poor-policing-ferguson-kelling-121268/

Why then has broken windows policing re-emerged as the target not only of academics but activists during the second decade of the 21st century? In part, police themselves have not always applied a broken-windows approach in a manner in which it is most effective as a crime prevention and control technique, while compatible with and responsive to community goals and desires. Both are crucial to good broken-windows policing—which by its nature depends upon the exercise of seasoned discretion and wise judgment by trained police officers familiar with and sensitive to the local community. At the same time, many critics of order maintenance by police fail to understand either the fundamental theory behind its use, or actual positive outcomes that have been documented in its application in numerous cities across the country—outcomes that make it a police tactic worth pursuing.

[Terlylane]

[Rosethecommie]

No, why wouldn’t you support an organization literally based around protecting black lives? How is that not inherently anti-black?

[All Along The Watchtower]

Yes. Next question.

[dead0man]

No, why wouldn’t you support an organization literally based around protecting black lives? How is that not inherently anti-black?

so being against an organization that was based around protecting white lives would make someone anti-white?

[ElectionsGuy]

Without even going into the riots of last year, you can oppose their ideological demands clearly as they're pretty radical, while still being appalled by killings of George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, etc. When I saw polls that showed 55-60% of Americans supporting BLM, I knew most Americans were associating BLM with protests against police injustice rather than their actual platform.

[Schiff for Senate]

Depends on what you characterize as "anti-BLM." If being BLM requires you to support defunding or abolishing the police, then the answer to your question is definitely yes. I'm certainly not 'anti-black,' but I don't think the solution is setting fire to buildings/vandalizing/looting/defunding or abolishing the police. The police can be reformed; defunding it won't reduce racism but will increase the number of criminals on the streets; and I'm appalled that elected representatives like Rashida Tlaib think that abolishing the police is a good idea because it's inherently racist (her solution is ending the police, which will lead to more murder, crime, theft, etc.). If BLM simply means you support police reform and oppose police using overly aggressive tactics like knee-on-neck, then the answer is no; there's no reason at all for the police to do so except in very few circumstances (and George Floyd definitely wasn't one of them).

[Blue3]

No. It's not an organization, it's a sentiment.

[RINO Tom]

I don’t see how tbh, the ten point program they have is very lukewarm and are the simplest of reforms for preserving black lives.

Simple - you can believe that various bad actors associated with BLM chapters or whatever have failed to live up to their ideals and tarnished the reputation of “BLM.”

[nclib]

In theory, yes, but people who oppose the basic ideas of BLM rather than its rhetoric, are anti-black.

[GregTheGreat657]

Yes, BLM described themselves as a Marxist organization. Opposing marxism has nothing to do with being anti-black

[John Dule]

No.

Rather than making more Americans pro-BLM, this kind of attitude will actually make more people comfortable with being anti-Black.

[An American Tail: Fubart Goes West]

Yes, if you’re talking about BLM the grassroots organization as opposed to BLM the motto/sentiment.