BREAKING: Roe v. Wade might be overruled or severely weakened by SCOTUS
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  BREAKING: Roe v. Wade might be overruled or severely weakened by SCOTUS
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Author Topic: BREAKING: Roe v. Wade might be overruled or severely weakened by SCOTUS  (Read 11984 times)
Chunk Yogurt for President!
CELTICEMPIRE
Junior Chimp
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« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2021, 10:35:04 AM »

I'm honestly increasingly beginning to believe this is a good thing. It would drive D turnout up and R turnout down for the midterms.

And the women unable to get abortions in the meantime are just collateral damage?

But people keep on telling me that abortion bans have no affect on the rate of abortion!

If you want to be precise, rich women who want to get an abortion will get an abortion by travelling to California/Canada for the weekend (your pick) and paying out of pocket; while poor women will just have to suck it up and raise the child (or put him up for adoption, or do a dangerous illegal abortion)
Wrong. If a woman leaves Georgia to get an abortion in Virginia (the closest state with legal abortion), the woman can be charged with a crime.



Based.
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Mopsus
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« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2021, 10:35:25 AM »

I think you would see mass mobilisation of pro-choice Americans and a mass drain of demographic and economic drain from states where there would be default anti-choice legislation.

I don’t see why that would happen. Most women who get abortions don’t have the economic resources to move to a new state on a whim, and those who do could just as easily drive or take a train to the nearest legal abortion state if they really wanted to get one.
Remember that Georgia passed a law to make it illegal to leave the state to get an abortion.

I can’t imagine how a state would enforce that.

I don’t see why that would happen. Most women who get abortions don’t have the economic resources to move to a new state on a whim, and those who do could just as easily drive or take a train to the nearest legal abortion state if they really wanted to get one.

And risk getting fired from their jobs for absenteeism in their convalescence and recovery from the procedure?

Most people are able to take a few days off of work.
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I’m not Stu
ERM64man
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« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2021, 10:36:00 AM »

I think you would see mass mobilisation of pro-choice Americans and a mass drain of demographic and economic drain from states where there would be default anti-choice legislation.

I don’t see why that would happen. Most women who get abortions don’t have the economic resources to move to a new state on a whim, and those who do could just as easily drive or take a train to the nearest legal abortion state if they really wanted to get one.
Remember that Georgia passed a law to make it illegal to leave the state to get an abortion.

I can’t imagine how a state would enforce that.

I don’t see why that would happen. Most women who get abortions don’t have the economic resources to move to a new state on a whim, and those who do could just as easily drive or take a train to the nearest legal abortion state if they really wanted to get one.

And risk getting fired from their jobs for absenteeism in their convalescence and recovery from the procedure?

Most people are able to take a few days off of work.
Georgia would ask for extradition if the woman is still out of state. If not, authorities might suspect a terminated pregnancy.
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Bootes Void
iamaganster123
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« Reply #53 on: May 17, 2021, 10:38:37 AM »

I'm honestly increasingly beginning to believe this is a good thing. It would drive D turnout up and R turnout down for the midterms.

And the women unable to get abortions in the meantime are just collateral damage?

But people keep on telling me that abortion bans have no affect on the rate of abortion!

If you want to be precise, rich women who want to get an abortion will get an abortion by travelling to California/Canada for the weekend (your pick) and paying out of pocket; while poor women will just have to suck it up and raise the child (or put him up for adoption, or do a dangerous illegal abortion)
Wrong. If a woman leaves Georgia to get an abortion in Virginia (the closest state with legal abortion), the woman can be charged with a crime.


I'm fairly sure this violates freedom of movement
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I’m not Stu
ERM64man
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« Reply #54 on: May 17, 2021, 10:40:48 AM »

I'm honestly increasingly beginning to believe this is a good thing. It would drive D turnout up and R turnout down for the midterms.

And the women unable to get abortions in the meantime are just collateral damage?

But people keep on telling me that abortion bans have no affect on the rate of abortion!

If you want to be precise, rich women who want to get an abortion will get an abortion by travelling to California/Canada for the weekend (your pick) and paying out of pocket; while poor women will just have to suck it up and raise the child (or put him up for adoption, or do a dangerous illegal abortion)
Wrong. If a woman leaves Georgia to get an abortion in Virginia (the closest state with legal abortion), the woman can be charged with a crime.


I'm fairly sure this violates freedom of movement
I know that it does. Georgia’s government doesn’t care. I think the state would also illegally spy on confidential health records to find pregnancies.
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Mopsus
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« Reply #55 on: May 17, 2021, 10:44:32 AM »

I think you would see mass mobilisation of pro-choice Americans and a mass drain of demographic and economic drain from states where there would be default anti-choice legislation.

I don’t see why that would happen. Most women who get abortions don’t have the economic resources to move to a new state on a whim, and those who do could just as easily drive or take a train to the nearest legal abortion state if they really wanted to get one.
Remember that Georgia passed a law to make it illegal to leave the state to get an abortion.

I can’t imagine how a state would enforce that.

I don’t see why that would happen. Most women who get abortions don’t have the economic resources to move to a new state on a whim, and those who do could just as easily drive or take a train to the nearest legal abortion state if they really wanted to get one.

And risk getting fired from their jobs for absenteeism in their convalescence and recovery from the procedure?

Most people are able to take a few days off of work.
Georgia would ask for extradition if the woman is still out of state. If not, authorities might suspect a terminated pregnancy.

Showing my ignorance here, but can you be charged with a crime for doing something that’s legal in the state you’re in? If you live in a state where gambling is illegal, but you go to an Indian Reservation to go to a casino, your home state can’t prosecute you, can they?
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I’m not Stu
ERM64man
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« Reply #56 on: May 17, 2021, 10:45:06 AM »

I think you would see mass mobilisation of pro-choice Americans and a mass drain of demographic and economic drain from states where there would be default anti-choice legislation.

I don’t see why that would happen. Most women who get abortions don’t have the economic resources to move to a new state on a whim, and those who do could just as easily drive or take a train to the nearest legal abortion state if they really wanted to get one.
Remember that Georgia passed a law to make it illegal to leave the state to get an abortion.

I can’t imagine how a state would enforce that.

I don’t see why that would happen. Most women who get abortions don’t have the economic resources to move to a new state on a whim, and those who do could just as easily drive or take a train to the nearest legal abortion state if they really wanted to get one.

And risk getting fired from their jobs for absenteeism in their convalescence and recovery from the procedure?

Most people are able to take a few days off of work.
Georgia would ask for extradition if the woman is still out of state. If not, authorities might suspect a terminated pregnancy.

Showing my ignorance here, but can you be charged with a crime for doing something that’s legal in the state you’re in? If you live in a state where gambling is illegal, but you go to an Indian Reservation to go to a casino, your home state can’t prosecute you, can they?
Georgia would try to prosecute anyway.
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Damocles
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« Reply #57 on: May 17, 2021, 10:47:16 AM »

Most people are able to take a few days off of work.
Have you seen the conditions many workers at the bottom in this country languish in? They get paid what amounts to poverty wages, their direct reports aren’t much better off than they are, they constantly get screamed at and abused in high-stress, uncivilized environments made worse by entitled consumers, they have little to nothing to their name, and oftentimes, they have to indebt themselves to simply get something like this done. They exist in a world of privation and humiliation, and you seem ignorant and dismissive of this reality.
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I’m not Stu
ERM64man
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« Reply #58 on: May 17, 2021, 10:48:36 AM »

I can imagine Georgia erecting checkpoints for pregnant women.
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GeorgiaModerate
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« Reply #59 on: May 17, 2021, 10:49:39 AM »

GA HB481 was ruled unconstitutional last year.
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I’m not Stu
ERM64man
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« Reply #60 on: May 17, 2021, 10:50:34 AM »

GA HB481 was ruled unconstitutional last year.
It will be appealed.
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7,052,770
Harry
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« Reply #61 on: May 17, 2021, 10:55:07 AM »

GA HB481 was ruled unconstitutional last year.

We can hope that cooler heads will prevail if Roe is overturned, but I fear we will go to a very dark and draconian place as a country if the anti-abortion crusaders are validated by the Supreme Court.

People who truly believe abortion is murder aren't going to stop with "Ok, we've banned it in our states, so the issue is settled." They're going to ban it everywhere, reduce the acceptable exceptions, and prevent people from travelling to other places to get one. And in fairness, why wouldn't they? If abortion really is murder, that's the only reasonable course of action.
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Mopsus
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« Reply #62 on: May 17, 2021, 10:56:10 AM »

Showing my ignorance here, but can you be charged with a crime for doing something that’s legal in the state you’re in? If you live in a state where gambling is illegal, but you go to an Indian Reservation to go to a casino, your home state can’t prosecute you, can they?
Georgia would try to prosecute anyway.

It doesn’t sound like they would be successful though.

Most people are able to take a few days off of work.
Have you seen the conditions many workers at the bottom in this country languish in? They get paid what amounts to poverty wages, their direct reports aren’t much better off than they are, they constantly get screamed at and abused in high-stress, uncivilized environments made worse by entitled consumers, they have little to nothing to their name, and oftentimes, they have to indebt themselves to simply get something like this done. They exist in a world of privation and humiliation, and you seem ignorant and dismissive of this reality.

For context, my original post was in response to afleitch’s contention that overturning Roe would cause a mass exodus out of states where abortion is made illegal. I’ve already acknowledged that poor women, who are most of the women who get abortions, would neither have the resources to move nor circumvent the law.
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I’m not Stu
ERM64man
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« Reply #63 on: May 17, 2021, 10:57:58 AM »

GA HB481 was ruled unconstitutional last year.
Also, the 11th Circuit is very conservative. I would expect an initial en banc hearing.
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Person Man
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« Reply #64 on: May 17, 2021, 11:09:44 AM »

I think you would see mass mobilisation of pro-choice Americans and a mass drain of demographic and economic drain from states where there would be default anti-choice legislation.

I don’t see why that would happen. Most women who get abortions don’t have the economic resources to move to a new state on a whim, and those who do could just as easily drive or take a train to the nearest legal abortion state if they really wanted to get one.
Remember that Georgia passed a law to make it illegal to leave the state to get an abortion.

I can’t imagine how a state would enforce that.

I don’t see why that would happen. Most women who get abortions don’t have the economic resources to move to a new state on a whim, and those who do could just as easily drive or take a train to the nearest legal abortion state if they really wanted to get one.

And risk getting fired from their jobs for absenteeism in their convalescence and recovery from the procedure?

Most people are able to take a few days off of work.
Georgia would ask for extradition if the woman is still out of state. If not, authorities might suspect a terminated pregnancy.

Showing my ignorance here, but can you be charged with a crime for doing something that’s legal in the state you’re in? If you live in a state where gambling is illegal, but you go to an Indian Reservation to go to a casino, your home state can’t prosecute you, can they?
Georgia would try to prosecute anyway.

Can’t you just not go back or apply for foreign asylum if they keep hounding you? (Theoretical)

It’s still legal in Florida by constitutional referendum. I think.
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SteveRogers
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« Reply #65 on: May 17, 2021, 11:11:00 AM »

I'm honestly increasingly beginning to believe this is a good thing. It would drive D turnout up and R turnout down for the midterms.

And the women unable to get abortions in the meantime are just collateral damage?

But people keep on telling me that abortion bans have no affect on the rate of abortion!

If you want to be precise, rich women who want to get an abortion will get an abortion by travelling to California/Canada for the weekend (your pick) and paying out of pocket; while poor women will just have to suck it up and raise the child (or put him up for adoption, or do a dangerous illegal abortion)
Wrong. If a woman leaves Georgia to get an abortion in Virginia (the closest state with legal abortion), the woman can be charged with a crime.


Yeah... that wouldn’t hold up in court even if SCOTUS fully overturned Roe.
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I’m not Stu
ERM64man
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« Reply #66 on: May 17, 2021, 11:12:59 AM »

I'm honestly increasingly beginning to believe this is a good thing. It would drive D turnout up and R turnout down for the midterms.

And the women unable to get abortions in the meantime are just collateral damage?

But people keep on telling me that abortion bans have no affect on the rate of abortion!

If you want to be precise, rich women who want to get an abortion will get an abortion by travelling to California/Canada for the weekend (your pick) and paying out of pocket; while poor women will just have to suck it up and raise the child (or put him up for adoption, or do a dangerous illegal abortion)
Wrong. If a woman leaves Georgia to get an abortion in Virginia (the closest state with legal abortion), the woman can be charged with a crime.
Yeah... that wouldn’t hold up in court even if SCOTUS fully overturned Roe.
This SCOTUS would uphold it 5-4.
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Sestak
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« Reply #67 on: May 17, 2021, 11:15:58 AM »

Why are people responding seriously to erm64man’s ridiculous claims?
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I’m not Stu
ERM64man
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« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2021, 11:21:09 AM »

Why are people responding seriously to erm64man’s ridiculous claims?
It isn’t hyperbole. I have even taken healthcare law and business law classes in school. Don’t underestimate the GOP.
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2021, 11:21:16 AM »

I'm fine with constitutional concealed carry and don't even see why that's controversial but overturning Roe would be pretty despicable. Probably gonna happen though.

The problem with constitutional right to concealed carry is that the vast majority of those who will avail themselves of it will be dangerously incompetent in their exercise of it.  It makes about as much objective sense as a constitutional right to impaired driving.
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SteveRogers
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« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2021, 11:22:23 AM »

I'm honestly increasingly beginning to believe this is a good thing. It would drive D turnout up and R turnout down for the midterms.

And the women unable to get abortions in the meantime are just collateral damage?

But people keep on telling me that abortion bans have no affect on the rate of abortion!

If you want to be precise, rich women who want to get an abortion will get an abortion by travelling to California/Canada for the weekend (your pick) and paying out of pocket; while poor women will just have to suck it up and raise the child (or put him up for adoption, or do a dangerous illegal abortion)
Wrong. If a woman leaves Georgia to get an abortion in Virginia (the closest state with legal abortion), the woman can be charged with a crime.
Yeah... that wouldn’t hold up in court even if SCOTUS fully overturned Roe.
This SCOTUS would uphold it 5-4.
You are incorrect.
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2021, 11:23:26 AM »

I'm honestly increasingly beginning to believe this is a good thing. It would drive D turnout up and R turnout down for the midterms.

It's politically advantageous, but that doesn't make it good. Trump winning in 2016 was good for the democratic party's medium-term prospects, but it was terrible for the nation.
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Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers
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« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2021, 11:25:02 AM »

The births are at the lowest level, Freeman of the Braves had invetro fetertillization, even athletes are adopting, abortion isn't even that much a concern anymore because the birth rate thanks to Covid has gone down from 3 to 1.5

The real issue is DC statehood passed n the next election and HR 1 those are the concerns not that much an abortion

If a woman doesn't want a baby after 15 weeks, she should give it up for adoption not abort it
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Person Man
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« Reply #73 on: May 17, 2021, 11:25:11 AM »

Why are people responding seriously to erm64man’s ridiculous claims?

He put down that it MIGHT. This is vey similar to 1992 where, in Casey, the court took up a PA law that required filial consent to obtain an abortion. The public thought that there were enough Republicans on the Court and the restriction was broad enough to overturn Roe v. Wade. They got the "undue burden" instead. Of the four restrictions in the Abortion Control Act, waiting period, consent for minor,  and consent from husband, all but the consent from husband was struck down. So we are pretty much in that predicament.

That said, I severely doubt either Kavanaugh, Gorsuch, or Roberts is 100% in on fetal personhood. I could definitely see them interested in overturning Roe and can see them say its a state issue while ACB, Thomas, Alito consenting by saying there is a Right to be Born (which is stupid because Courts can't make crimes... I guess they can say that common law torts of survivorship could be brought forth though).

Honestly, if Roe v. Wade gets overruled, I can see its effects being very similar to the current marijuana situation or the COVID situation. It will just make this country that much harder to govern and I can even see local DAs and sheriffs in big cities offering defacto amnesty and when AZ, GA, TX, or FL finally get a D governor, but still not having the votes to legalize,  that they do that too.



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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #74 on: May 17, 2021, 11:25:50 AM »

I think you would see mass mobilisation of pro-choice Americans and a mass drain of demographic and economic drain from states where there would be default anti-choice legislation.



So, Ohio, West Virginia, Missouri, Iowa are doomed economically?

I think states with punitive abortion law will see both economic boycotts and a drain of young people. Women have much more social mobility than they did pre Roe.

'Big Pro-Life' is well connected and powerful but it is not popular. Repealing Roe ends the grift.

Watch for Handmaid-Red States to start taking action on that front. "Tried to leave the state for an abortion? Now you're a felon and can't leave the state." (I'm not saying it will be effective, but they'll try.)
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