Israeli forces storm and fire on Al Aqsa mosque

[Velasco]

Disinformation. Using media as a military weapon

https://twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/1393378004357746690?s=19

[America Needs R'hllor]

Lol. This ^ was a military strategy to get Hamas combatants who fire rockets to murder my friends and family into their tunnels that they use to hide military weapons meant for Israeli civilians, and then destroy the tunnels with them. It was brilliant and I'm proud of the IDF for doing its job.

Anyway, as you might've read in the Updates thread I'm extremely busy, but I'm seeing a lot of radicalization on this issue. So just in case anyone here who didn't accept the Palestinian narrative wholesale before read leftist bs on the internet and does now, I'm here to remind that in 1947 the Palestinians refused to accept a map that was extremely fair for them and instead went on the offensive to try and destroy the Jews living here, who were mostly refugees escaping the holocaust or earlier anti-semitic persecution. Whatever you think of the more complicated situation now, if you think Israel has no right to exist, you're just a right wing militant, not a progressive. The poster above me, for example, is a right wing anti-Jewish militant who purposefully posts only examples of violence from one side while Jews suffer lynches from Arabs every day too and he doesn't care.

On a personal note, it's really hard for me here right now because I do have very mixed feelings about this unlike most Israelis. Our media doesn't talk about Jewish violence nearly enough, and this whole round of violence was entirely preventable, as I said in my first page post. It's hard to feel that way while everyone is rallying around the flag, but I'm keeping to my values. But, when I see people from abroad paint this conflict in broad strokes that try to erase hundreds of years of violence Jews suffered, and try to legitimize rocket attacks on my family, I can't shut up.

[TheDeadFlagBlues]

Lol. This ^ was a military strategy to get Hamas combatants who fire rockets to murder my friends and family into their tunnels that they use to hide military weapons meant for Israeli civilians, and then destroy the tunnels with them. It was brilliant and I'm proud of the IDF for doing its job.

Anyway, as you might've read in the Updates thread I'm extremely busy, but I'm seeing a lot of radicalization on this issue. So just in case anyone here who didn't accept the Palestinian narrative wholesale before read leftist bs on the internet and does now, I'm here to remind that in 1947 the Palestinians refused to accept a map that was extremely fair for them and instead went on the offensive to try and destroy the Jews living here, who were mostly refugees escaping the holocaust or earlier anti-semitic persecution. Whatever you think of the more complicated situation now, if you think Israel has no right to exist, you're just a right wing militant, not a progressive. The poster above me, for example, is a right wing anti-Jewish militant who purposefully posts only examples of violence from one side while Jews suffer lynches from Arabs every day too and he doesn't care.

I understand that you're an Israeli and, therefore, will take criticism of your country personally to some degree but the idea that velasco is a "right-wing anti-Jewish militant" because he focuses on one side of conflicts in Israel offensive to anyone who is a member of this forum community - sharing videos of communalist violence or links that make Israel look bad provides a different perspective! If you want to weigh-in to provide an alternative one, that's fine also, but velasco is entitled to say what he wants to say on these matters and his sources of info seem credible to me.

I'll add that I agree with what you say about the founding of Israel but I don't think you should imply that people who have ideological disagreements with the idea of a "Jewish state" are anti-Semitic because that mostly mischaracterizes their views. It's quite common for liberals and leftists to loathe ethno-nationalism. The evolution of Israel politics and society has mostly served to confirm suspicions that anyone of this perspective should continue to be skeptical of states that symbolically prefer people who pray a certain way, belong to a certain caste grouping etc. I believe things could have evolved differently but it's harder and harder to make this case, especially given the ugly and distressing mob violence in Israel, where both Jews and Arabs are being lynched. Making the Israel state exclusive has mostly served to foster resentments, sense of second class citizenship (that is basically real) and ramp-up tensions. I have no idea how this could possibly benefit Jews...

[Velasco]

.

(...) anyone here who didn't accept the Palestinian narrative wholesale before read leftist bs on the internet and does now, I'm here to remind that in 1947  refused to accept a map that was extremely fair for them and instead went on the offensive to try and destroy the Jews living here (...)

The Palestinian voices and narratives have been systematically ignored, especially in the US. This is changing, but very slowly. I think you are not entitled to complain, since you are a zionist  well regarded in this forum and have voiced your opinions without restrictions. I'm not interested in engaging historical discussions, because I'm more concerned about the terrible events happening in Israel-Palestine now. Your vision is so one-sided, biased and negationist that it would be worthless. A large majority of the Palestinian civilians was not involved in the war triggered by the partition of Palestine. Many of them fled, either forcibly expelled, intimidated, or ill-advised by their leaders.They never returned and these events that form the big tragedy of the people of Palestine and is known as the Nakba. You deny its existence, but the consequences are still visible. As for your "fair map" of the partition of Palestine,  I studied Geography and have seen maps. When I see this one in particular,  my first thought is "impractical". Do you really think that map so madly drawn would have worked in the real life? Isn't it true the Zionist movement rejected a solution that involved sharing that small country with the Palestinians? Anyway it's worthless, for a committed Zionist every Palestinian is a Grand Mufti

What is happening in Gaza and throughout Israel-Palestine is terrible.  Your "national home " is turning into the ugliest of dystopias and you know it. The right to have a national home for the Jewish people sounds good on paper, but not so good when the realization of your vision or project implies dispossesing others of everything.  You share that country with the Palestinians,  like it or not. You could have opted for other ways of coexistence. Don 't blame me for caring about people who suffer and denouncing the ugliness

Most of my sources are from Israel, btw

[America Needs R'hllor]

Let me just add that I talk very different in Hebrew. I don't talk that much about the injustice of the missile attacks we're facing, but rather about how we don't talk enough about the Jewish Kahanist violence and about how this all started very fishy, just in time to save Netanyahu. While here I find it important to remind everyone of the history of Jews in Palestina being persecuted and attacked despite plenty of space for both people, and of Arabs rejecting a compromise that let each side practice their right for self determination and going on an offensive to kill us or send us back to the places we were slaughtered by millions. I'm not usually a contrarian but in this issue I can't shut up when people ignore the context just to delegitimize entire groups of people, whether it's zionist Jews or the Palestinian right for self determination. And I definitely have no patience for people who say that it's ok to target me and my family with missiles and we have no right to defend myself as some political grandstanding. That's why here I sound mostly the contrarian position to the mainstream leftist point of view.

Just my piece- still very busy and won't be able to go here for the next few weeks. Stay safe everyone, and apologies if my passion on this issue hurt anyone.

[Tender Branson]

Kurz and the FMA under fire for deploying the Israeli flag on top of the Chancellery and FMA.

Critics from the opposition (incl. the FPÖ) and experts say it’s not fair and balanced towards the Palestinians.

https://twitter.com/sebastiankurz/status/1393106844449705985
https://twitter.com/MFA_Austria/status/1393141263520698370
https://www.derstandard.at/story/2000126638296/kurz-liess-aus-solidaritaet-israelische-flagge-auf-bundeskanzleramt-hissen

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

I'm only watching a tiny fraction of the horror, but it's apalling anyway. I wonder if Joe Biden is aware who is triggering this situation. It's not a mere question of "de-escalating" violence and then forget about it until the next escalation. A supremacist dystopia is surfacing

https://twitter.com/AlaaDaraghme/status/1393247683670908932

Of course, he's aware. But Israel is the most important ally in the region. Obama & Biden let Saudis wage a [US-tax funded] war against Yemeni people. The consequences of this war are much worse than what Israelis ever did and Saudis are way less important to US than Israel. Yet, Saudi faced basically no consequences.

Nothing personal, just business.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

https://twitter.com/jongambrellAP/status/1393550867534516224

[Velasco]

lol #austriaposting

I'm only watching a tiny fraction of the horror, but it's apalling anyway. I wonder if Joe Biden is aware who is triggering this situation. It's not a mere question of "de-escalating" violence and then forget about it until the next escalation. A supremacist dystopia is surfacing

Of course, he's aware. But Israel is the most important ally in the region. Obama & Biden let Saudis wage a [US-tax funded] war against Yemeni people. The consequences of this war are much worse than what Israelis ever did and Saudis are way less important to US than Israel. Yet, Saudi faced basically no consequences.

Nothing personal, just business.

Thank you for the lessons in geopolitics

https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1393320501674745857?s=19

[kaoras]

Yes, that famous condition for being left-wing: being in favor of etno-nationalism. If Israel is going to do everything in its power to make a separate Palestinian state unviable through the neverending expansion of settlements, then it should accept that a multi-etnic one-state solution is the only way forward unless they want to go full kahanist. It would be extremely hard to bring along the Palestinians but that is the logical outcome of current Israel policy unless they want to resort to more ethnic cleansing (And "what about 1948 isn't going to cut it)

[Meclazine for Israel]

Al-Jazeera media centre goes boom.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-15/israel-targets-gaza-building-housing-media/100142158

I don't think Israel are finished yet.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

Al-Jazeera media centre goes boom.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-15/israel-targets-gaza-building-housing-media/100142158

I don't think Israel are finished yet.

Not only Al-Jazeera, but AP and "others"

https://apnews.com/article/israel-west-bank-gaza-middle-east-israel-palestinian-conflict-7974cc0c03897b8b21e5fc2f8c7d8a79
Israel strike in Gaza destroys building with AP, other media

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip (AP) — An Israeli airstrike destroyed a high-rise building in Gaza City that housed offices of The Associated Press and other media outlets on Friday, the latest step by the military to silence reporting from the territory amid its battle with the militant group Hamas.

Trump made it OK to call them FAKE NEWS, Biden made it OK to bomt sh**t out of them!

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1393571636759212034

[lfromnj]

Disinformation. Using media as a military weapon

https://twitter.com/nytimesworld/status/1393378004357746690?s=19

Ok legitimate question, there will be attempted Gaza missile attacks in the short run.

How should Israel retaliate to stop said attacks?

This isn't to say the hugh civilian deaths are justified but Israel should be able to retaliate in some manner.

[Red Velvet]

Associated Press, Al Jazeera buildings were exploded by Israel. And yet we’re still going to be forced to hear by western media that this is a conflict between “radical” Palestinians and a “democratic” country.

What is happening is a terrorist State promoting ethnic cleansing in the face of all the world and people are completely okay with it because they’re Muslims. That is the truth. Western world has no place to position themselves as defenders of human rights and democracy when they side with stuff like this because it’s clear that they only see one specific type of people as human beings.

“Bombing the press is necessary to fight Hamas” takes won’t make this look better, neither will use the past to justify this stuff as if Israel had a free blank card to do whatever they want and to step on international human rights agreements that should work for EVERYONE.

The worse Israel will get out of all this is people sh**tting on it more often on the internet, while Palestinians are being erased and deleted from existence with the backing and silent consensus of the whole world. So excuse me if I’m not sensitive enough about the Israeli pain at the moment.

Bombing the press happens to prevent media reporting from the inside. So that people don’t know what is the situation there.

[CumbrianLefty]

There will inevitably be a rise in anti-Semitism around the world because of this. But what does that or anything else count, compared to getting Bibi a few more points in the polls?

[Velasco]

Ok legitimate question, there will be attempted Gaza missile attacks in the short run.

How should Israel retaliate to stop said attacks?

Israel shouln't target indiscriminately residential areas, or buildings used by correspondents and news agencies, under the false pretense Hamas terrorists use civilians or journalists as human shields. Firstly, bombing residential areas is a war crime contrary to the rules of conflicts; secondly, most of the buildings targeted by the IDF are not locations for missile launching, but places where Hamas militants eat or sleep. Being the world's largest open-air prison, Gaza is one of the most densely populated places in the world.  Bombing the areas where Hamas militamts live (not the locations of the rockets) leads invariably to the death of many innocent civilians, including children. This is a blatant war crime.

Let alone the Israeli authorities could do much more in order to prevent these situations, because only propagandists and die-hard supporters of #TeamIsrael ignore the fact this current escalation began in East Jerusalem,  triggered by far-right settlers and quite possibly by Netanyahu himself. Not to mention Israeli authorities have abandoned any pretense of "peace process" and do nothing to alleviate the humanitarian situation of Gaza, submit Palestinians to a regime of apartheid,  etcetera.  

Said this the rocket attacks are unacceptable. But they don't justify savage and disproportionate retaliations, oppresive regimes or kahanist progroms. Hamas must be combated, like all the organizations that resort to violence, but Palestinian civilians must not pay for the crimes of Hamas militamts. The mistreatment of Palestinian civilians throughout Israel-Palestine must stop

[lfromnj]

Ok legitimate question, there will be attempted Gaza missile attacks in the short run.

How should Israel retaliate to stop said attacks?

Israel shouln't target indiscriminately residential areas, or buildings used by correspondents and news agencies, under the false pretense Hamas terrorists use civilians or journalists as human shields. Firstly, bombing residential areas is a war crime contrary to the rules of conflicts; secondly, most of the buildings targeted by the IDF are not locations for missile launching, but places where Hamas militants eat or sleep. Being the world's largest open-air prison, Gaza is one of the most densely populated places in the world.  Bombing the areas where Hamas militamts live (not the locations of the rockets) leads invariably to the death of many innocent civilians, including children. This is a blatant war crime.

Let alone the Israeli authorities could do much more in order to prevent these situations, because only propagandists and die-hard supporters of #TeamIsrael ignore the fact this current escalation began in East Jerusalem,  triggered by far-right settlers and quite possibly by Netanyahu himself. Not to mention Israeli authorities have abandoned any pretense of "peace process" and do nothing to alleviate the humanitarian situation of Gaza, submit Palestinians to a regime of apartheid,  etcetera.  

Said this the rocket attacks are unacceptable. But they don't justify savage and disproportionate retaliations, oppresive regimes or kahanist progroms. Hamas must be combated, like all the organizations that resort to violence, but Palestinian civilians must not pay for the crimes of Hamas militamts. The mistreatment of Palestinian civilians throughout Israel-Palestine must stop

You just attacked Israel for bringing Hamas to a non civilian zone using "deception"

[lfromnj]

https://mobile.twitter.com/APStylebook/status/1311357912078585858

Don't focus on property destruction guys(in all seriousness it is quite bad that non combatants are losing their livelihoods and I genuinely do feel bad for Gaza civilians. Not so much for AP though.

[The Undefeatable Debbie Stabenow]

Some valuable context about what exactly "human shielding" is and how it has both been utilized and been incorrectly identified throughout the years of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict:

https://twitter.com/sarahleah1/status/1392479694382043141

[lfromnj]

Don't focus on property destruction guys(in all seriousness it is quite bad that non combatants are losing their livelihoods and I genuinely do feel bad for Gaza civilians. Not so much for AP though.

You are an utterly vacuous presence on this website. If you'll excuse war crimes, what else do you believe in?

*potential war crime . The IDF which i dont trust either obviously  has stated it was a hamas intel area. I would like some independent confirmation if that is true or not. So far the AP has complained but they haven't actually denied the IDFs statement.

However overall after what the AP said about how property destruction doesn't matter, i have little sympathy towards them even if its still bad what happened to them.

[Silent Hunter]

I choose to blame each side for their own actions, myself.

[MT Treasurer]

Too bad no "warning" was issued for this:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/israel-airstrike-gaza-kills-8-children-u-s-envoy-arrives-n1267490
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/15/israel-gaza-west-bank-rockets-jerusalem-warplanes

And yes, bombing the headquarters/offices of media is a fairly common war crime that the U.S. has also committed frequently (bombing RTS in Belgrade in 1999 without letting people evacuate it*, bombing Al-Jazeera offices in Afghanistan in 2001 and Iraq in 2003). So it’s not like this is some 'uniquely Israeli' type of act or whatever.

*This was one of the most barbaric instances of such a crime (resulted in 16 deaths), even more so than anything that followed. At least people in the building we’re talking about were evacuated, but it’s pretty obvious that innocent civilians are dying elsewhere and that the 'scale' of Israel's response is completely unjustified.

I also feel sorry for anyone (on either "side") who has to constantly endure the psychological terror that is the sound of those sirens.

[MaxQue]

There will inevitably be a rise in anti-Semitism around the world because of this. But what does that or anything else count, compared to getting Bibi a few more points in the polls?

This is actually a feature. The more anti-semitism in the world, the more right-wing Jews move back to Israel, the more votes he gets.

[GALeftist]

Don't focus on property destruction guys(in all seriousness it is quite bad that non combatants are losing their livelihoods and I genuinely do feel bad for Gaza civilians. Not so much for AP though.

You are an utterly vacuous presence on this website. If you'll excuse war crimes, what else do you believe in?

*potential war crime . The IDF which i dont trust either obviously  has stated it was a hamas intel area. I would like some independent confirmation if that is true or not. So far the AP has complained but they haven't actually denied the IDFs statement.

However overall after what the AP said about how property destruction doesn't matter, i have little sympathy towards them even if its still bad what happened to them.

Not necessarily directed at you, lfromnj, but if this was a building with lots of press offices in eastern Ukraine or something and Russia leveled it and said afterwards that it was because there were far-right Ukrainian insurgents hiding out there or something and I decided to take Russia at its word (or frankly even entertain the notion that that was their sole motivation) I would (rightly) be roundly mocked. It seems odd to me that we afford Israel so much more latitude.

[Continential]

https://twitter.com/dylanotes/status/1393401481974493187