LGC 1.10 - Peconic Act - Vetoed

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Peconic Act

Section 1
a. A referendum shall be held in the towns of East Hampton, Riverhead, Shelter Island, Southampton, and Southold, New York concurrently with the August gubernatorial election.
b. Voters shall vote on the question: “Should the five easternmost towns in Suffolk County secede from the county to form Peconic County?”
c. Voters may vote “yes” or “no.” Abstentions shall not count as votes.
c. Section 2 of this bill shall only apply if at least 55% of votes are “yes.”

Section 2
a. The towns of East Hampton, Riverhead, Shelter Island, Southampton, and Southold, New York shall secede from Suffolk County to form Peconic County by the end of 2024.
b. Implementation shall primarily be managed by New York state officials.
c. The county seat of Peconic County shall be Riverhead, New York.
d. The county seat of Suffolk County shall be moved to Hauppauge, New York.

Sponsor: AGA
Occupying: Slot 10 of 14

Sponsor, please advocate for your bill.

[AGA]

Suffolk County has a population of one and a half million and is 85 miles long. Its size makes it too difficult to govern effectively. There is also some desire for the county split among the populace. A RL non-binding referendum in 1997 showed support for Peconic County to be at 71% among its hypothetical residents. I would like to give the people a binding referendum. I've already asked the GM, who has confirmed that an NPC referendum is possible.

I chose Hauppauge as the new seat of Suffolk County because a lot of the county offices are already located there. Riverhead, the current official county seat, is simply too inconvenient for much of the population to travel to. Two separate counties would reduce the need for county officials to travel such long distances.

I understand that there is concern that this would result in more secessionist movements, but any such movement would still have to be approved by this Court. I am open to input on what the referendum threshold should be. As for the flag and seal, we can either decide that now or after the referendum if it passes. There already is a decent flag proposal that we could use.

[Leinad]

85 miles

Wow, and it's surrounded by water? Sounds like a pretty...

...long...

...ISLAND



[credits roll on Atlasia]


Anyway, I like the idea. Suffolk is almost five times as big as the average county in New York, which in itself is about thrice the size of the average county in the country, so it makes sense in that regard. I wonder if there are any other counties that are maybe a bit too big and weird-shaped that could be split? Also, perhaps there are a few smaller ones (both in size and population) that we could put merging referendums on? Oh and in some states counties are mostly just lines so we could do whatever we want probably...make some cool paint-by-number stuff in New Hampshire or something...whatever.

[OBD]

I support this bill. But be warned that future county line shifts will not be reflected on the NPC county map

[AGA]

I support this bill. But be warned that future county line shifts will not be reflected on the NPC county map

Slacker. All you have to do is add one line to the map.

[OBD]

I support this bill. But be warned that future county line shifts will not be reflected on the NPC county map

Slacker. All you have to do is add one line to the map.

Not happening. I don’t do photoshop.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Moving for a final vote

[S019]

Wait you're going to move for a vote on creating a new county that quickly? You guys should at least look at the tax base of said county, as well as the tax base of Suffolk before and after, because if you get a county that either takes too little of a tax base or too much, it will be a disaster. Counties are governments too, and they need adequate funding to operate.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Wait you're going to move for a vote on creating a new county that quickly? You guys should at least look at the tax base of said county, as well as the tax base of Suffolk before and after, because if you get a county that either takes too little of a tax base or too much, it will be a disaster. Counties are governments too, and they need adequate funding to operate.

I don't personally have any problem with the bill, and it will ultimately be up to the county to decide here.

If someone has a reason to believe the tax base is inadequate I'm willing to hear them out but otherwise I think we should vote.

As an accommodation I will withdraw the motion for now but it will get reoffered tomorrow if there is no further debate.

[AGA]

It's a referendum, so ultimately, it's up to the voters whether or not they want to form a new county. They will also have a few years to implement the change, so I'm not too concerned about the tax base. Also, do people think the 55% threshold is a good idea? I want there to be a strong mandate.

[S019]

Ok so this is imperfect, but it's the best metric we have since NY doesn't release municipal tax data, anyways the primary tax collected at the county level is the property tax, so here are average property values


Suffolk County as a whole: $510,000

East Hampton: $1.6 Million
Riverhead: $400,000
Shelter Island: $1.1 Million
Southampton: $1.4 Million
Southold: $790,000


So, yeah it seems like properties in this hypothetical county are valued way higher than the county average. It's an imperfect metric, but this leans me towards thinking this isn't a good idea.

[Leinad]

Interesting insight! I wasn't really thinking of this along those lines--more on, "hey, changing the map would be fun! I like maps! " but I'm honestly not super surprised there might be a class dimension.

Perhaps a compromise would be where the referendum is county-wide, and has to also clear a simple majority in the county as a whole as opposed to just the would-be Peconic by itself? Now, maybe this means the referendum would be dead in the water, but if that's the case and the entire county mostly opposes it, it's probably for the better it fails.

(Also if ODB isn't going to draw a new line so that the tinkering actually shows up in game why bother )

[Leinad]

Any interest in the version I discussed? If there is but no one wants to write it up I can, but you guys might prefer to just ditch the bill altogether. Or maybe I am the only one with concerns given the recent information?

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I guess I don't much care what happens with this. On one hand it may not make a lot of financial sense for the new county, but on the other hand this is just a game, and the state or region could always provide aid to this new county until it can increase its tax revenue. I'm prepared to support whatever is the majority here.

I'd encourage the 4 deputies who have ignored this thread to weigh in.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I guess the Court as a whole doesn't really care about the practicality of this.

Moving for a final vote.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

A vote is open on this.

AYE

[AGA]

Aye

[Nyssus]

Nay

[Never Made it to Graceland]

Aye

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

The bill is passed 3-1 with 3 not voting

[KaiserDave]

Debate on this proposal has been far too brief, and with the low vote count, it's clear to me this people does not have the full confidence of the General Court, nor does it have mine. Therefore I veto this legislation.

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

If anyone wishes to have a veto override vote, such request must be made within 72 hours.