LGC 1.8 - the WEALTH Act - Passed
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
March 29, 2024, 05:40:34 AM
News: Election Simulator 2.0 Released. Senate/Gubernatorial maps, proportional electoral votes, and more - Read more

  Talk Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Government
  Regional Governments (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  LGC 1.8 - the WEALTH Act - Passed
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2
Author Topic: LGC 1.8 - the WEALTH Act - Passed  (Read 764 times)
Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
Dwarven Dragon
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,580
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.42, S: -0.52

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: May 09, 2021, 10:25:31 AM »
« edited: May 21, 2021, 12:22:29 PM by Lincoln Speaker Dwarven Dragon »

Quote
the Way Excess Amounts of Loot, To Hell! Act

1. The Wealth Threshold Figure (WTF) shall be defined as a level of net worth exceeded by 0.1% of the population of Lincoln.
2. All Lincoln residents whose net worth exceeds the WTF will pay a 3.1% tax on their assets exceeding the WTF.

Sponsor: Leinad
Occupying: Slot 8 of 14

Sponsor, please advocate for your bill.
Logged
Leinad
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,049
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -7.91

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2021, 11:04:34 PM »

Dude you murdered the formatting, and the whole idea is that it goes by the acronym (which literally says more about what this bill is than the silly long title). Request for those to be fixed.

Anyway, this brings the wealth tax back, at basically the same rate that it was before the conservatives & centrists in the last Council removed it. I think that it's a fine amount, agreed to by previous lawmakers of Lincoln including moderates, that isn't excessively punitive, and does a lot to cure what is arguably the biggest problem in our society--the gap between those with the power and those struggling to get by.
Logged
Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
Dwarven Dragon
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,580
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.42, S: -0.52

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2021, 11:09:02 PM »

Okay done.

Anyways I don't really care on this. If a majority wants this I won't create undue delay.

If I am the deciding vote I'll probably vote No.
Logged
KaiserDave
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,589
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.81, S: -5.39

P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2021, 11:34:05 AM »

Hoping to sign this
Logged
AGA
Atlas Politician
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,267
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -5.39

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2021, 04:39:18 PM »
« Edited: May 12, 2021, 09:34:27 PM by AGA »

Let's take a look at the current tax policy in Lincoln and Atlasia. The top federal income tax rate is 40.6%, and the top regional income tax rate is 45%, meaning that some people are paying an effective marginal tax rate of 85.6%. That's not even including any other taxes, such as state income tax or the federal wealth tax. There is also a regional budget surplus of over $600 billion, meaning that the government is extracting hundreds of billions of extra dollars from the people as we are in the midst of recovering from a recession. The fact that some look at this and think this region needs even more taxation suggests to me that this tax is just about punishing well-off people and not addressing any sort of need.

The only reason anyone is able to get away with tax rates this high is because the economy in this game is broken. There are no distortions to incentives no matter what tax is levied. You can double revenue simply by doubling tax rates. Since most of you are probably aware of this fact, why don't you raise the wealth tax to something astronomical? How about 60%? 70%? There will be no damage to the economy, and you'd be showing your progressive bonafides. After all, the wealthy can "afford" it.

Or we can at least pretend the economy works similar as RL. An 85% tax rate is almost certainly past the peak of the Laffer curve, so you could raise revenue by lowering taxes while at the same time reducing economic inefficiency. At current rates, this region's economy would be crushed by the burden of extractive government, which this new proposal would make even worse. Several European countries had to repeal their wealth taxes due to the massive exodus in wealth. Something similar would occur here since it is very easy for people to just move to another region and dramatically reduce their tax burden. At the federal level, it is at least more difficult for people to move, but the tax still forces people to sell off assets to pay it. If you that adamant about raising taxes, please consider just taxing capital gains as income. That would make much more sense.
Logged
AGA
Atlas Politician
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,267
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -5.39

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2021, 02:38:54 AM »

Also, one more comment. The bill says that this applies to "Lincoln citizens." So non-citizens are exempt from the tax?
Logged
Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
Dwarven Dragon
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,580
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.42, S: -0.52

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2021, 08:37:32 PM »
« Edited: July 12, 2021, 10:52:37 AM by Lincoln Deputy Dwarven Dragon »

Since Lincoln Law does state illegal immigrants can hold certain jobs, and there's also people on work visas, etc, residents makes more sense than citizens:

Quote
the Way Excess Amounts of Loot, To Hell! Act

1. The Wealth Threshold Figure (WTF) shall be defined as a level of net worth exceeded by 0.1% of the population of Lincoln.
2. All Lincoln citizens residents whose net worth exceeds the WTF will pay a 3.1% tax on their assets exceeding the WTF.

Any objection?

Let's take a look at the current tax policy in Lincoln and Atlasia. The top federal income tax rate is 40.6%, and the top regional income tax rate is 45%, meaning that some people are paying an effective tax rate of 85.6%. That's not even including any other taxes, such as state income tax or the federal wealth tax. There is also a regional budget surplus of over $600 billion, meaning that the government is extracting hundreds of billions of extra dollars from the people as we are in the midst of recovering from a recession. The fact that some look at this and think this region needs even more taxation suggests to me that this tax is just about punishing well-off people and not addressing any sort of need.

The only reason anyone is able to get away with tax rates this high is because the economy in this game is broken. There are no distortions to incentives no matter what tax is levied. You can double revenue simply by doubling tax rates. Since most of you are probably aware of this fact, why don't you raise the wealth tax to something astronomical? How about 60%? 70%? There will be no damage to the economy, and you'd be showing your progressive bonafides. After all, the wealthy can "afford" it.

Or we can at least pretend the economy works similar as RL. An 85% tax rate is almost certainly past the peak of the Laffer curve, so you could raise revenue by lowering taxes while at the same time reducing economic inefficiency. At current rates, this region's economy would be crushed by the burden of extractive government, which this new proposal would make even worse. Several European countries had to repeal their wealth taxes due to the massive exodus in wealth. Something similar would occur here since it is very easy for people to just move to another region and dramatically reduce their tax burden. At the federal level, it is at least more difficult for people to move, but the tax still forces people to sell off assets to pay it. If you that adamant about raising taxes, please consider just taxing capital gains as income. That would make much more sense.

On the 85.6%: No, that's not how it works. Income taxes are marginal. This means if you have say 3 brackets at 10, 20, 30, and Income thresholds of 40,000 ; 80,000 ; 200,000 - you pay 0% on your first 40,000, 10% on your second 40,000, 20% on your next 120,000, and 30% on any Income above 200,000. Not 30% on your whole Income if it is above 200,000.

So those paying the 45% rate are not paying that on all their income- just the portion above the top Income threshold. The rest of their income is taxed at a lower rate.
Logged
AGA
Atlas Politician
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,267
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -5.39

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2021, 09:32:02 PM »
« Edited: May 12, 2021, 09:35:20 PM by AGA »

Since Lincoln Law does state illegal immigrants can hold certain jobs, and there's also people on work visas, etc, residents makes more sense than citizens:

Quote
the Way Excess Amounts of Loot, To Hell! Act

1. The Wealth Threshold Figure (WTF) shall be defined as a level of net worth exceeded by 0.1% of the population of Lincoln.
2. All Lincoln citizens residents whose net worth exceeds the WTF will pay a 3.1% tax on their assets exceeding the WTF.

Any objection?

Let's take a look at the current tax policy in Lincoln and Atlasia. The top federal income tax rate is 40.6%, and the top regional income tax rate is 45%, meaning that some people are paying an effective tax rate of 85.6%. That's not even including any other taxes, such as state income tax or the federal wealth tax. There is also a regional budget surplus of over $600 billion, meaning that the government is extracting hundreds of billions of extra dollars from the people as we are in the midst of recovering from a recession. The fact that some look at this and think this region needs even more taxation suggests to me that this tax is just about punishing well-off people and not addressing any sort of need.

The only reason anyone is able to get away with tax rates this high is because the economy in this game is broken. There are no distortions to incentives no matter what tax is levied. You can double revenue simply by doubling tax rates. Since most of you are probably aware of this fact, why don't you raise the wealth tax to something astronomical? How about 60%? 70%? There will be no damage to the economy, and you'd be showing your progressive bonafides. After all, the wealthy can "afford" it.

Or we can at least pretend the economy works similar as RL. An 85% tax rate is almost certainly past the peak of the Laffer curve, so you could raise revenue by lowering taxes while at the same time reducing economic inefficiency. At current rates, this region's economy would be crushed by the burden of extractive government, which this new proposal would make even worse. Several European countries had to repeal their wealth taxes due to the massive exodus in wealth. Something similar would occur here since it is very easy for people to just move to another region and dramatically reduce their tax burden. At the federal level, it is at least more difficult for people to move, but the tax still forces people to sell off assets to pay it. If you that adamant about raising taxes, please consider just taxing capital gains as income. That would make much more sense.

On the 85.6%: No, that's not how it works. Income taxes are marginal. This means if you have say 3 brackets at 10, 20, 30, and Income thresholds of 40,000 ; 80,000 ; 200,000 - you pay 10% on your first 40,000, 20% on your second 40,000, and 30% on any Income above 200,000. Not 30% on your whole Income if it is above 200,000.

So those paying the 45% rate are not paying that on all their income- just the portion above the top Income threshold. The rest of their income is taxed at a lower rate.


I know that income taxes are marginal, I just worded it wrong. The Laffer curve still applies to marginal rates to a certain extent.
Logged
AGA
Atlas Politician
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,267
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -5.39

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2021, 02:00:06 AM »

An amendment:

Quote
the Way Excess Amounts of Loot, To Hell! Act

1. The Wealth Threshold Figure (WTF) shall be defined as a level of net worth exceeded by 0.1% of the population of Lincoln.equal to $1 trillion.
2. All Lincoln citizens whose net worth exceeds the WTF will pay a 3.1%tax on their assets exceeding the WTF.
Logged
Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
Dwarven Dragon
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,580
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.42, S: -0.52

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2021, 02:08:28 AM »

My amendment is adopted. Is there objection to AGA's?
Logged
Leinad
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,049
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -7.91

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2021, 02:30:59 AM »

Yes there is an objection to that, it obviously guts the bill. This returns it to the norm before the last council, nothing crazy or "new."

Citizens vs. residents was bad wording when writing, very good catch!
Logged
Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
Dwarven Dragon
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,580
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.42, S: -0.52

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2021, 11:03:30 AM »

Question is on the AGA Amendment.

Abstain
Logged
AGA
Atlas Politician
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,267
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -5.39

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2021, 02:34:12 PM »

Aye
Logged
KaiserDave
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,589
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.81, S: -5.39

P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2021, 03:13:20 PM »

Vote No
Logged
Nyssus
Misteeer
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 491
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2021, 04:15:44 AM »
« Edited: May 15, 2021, 12:03:54 PM by Misteeer »

Nay
Logged
SN2903
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,676
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.48, S: 3.91

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2021, 07:18:44 AM »

Nay
Logged
JoeInator
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 389
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -4.00

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2021, 10:38:59 AM »

Nay
Logged
Leinad
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,049
United States


Political Matrix
E: -7.03, S: -7.91

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2021, 10:18:01 PM »

Nay
Logged
Crane
Atlas Politician
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,080


Political Matrix
E: -8.16, S: 3.22

P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2021, 08:12:23 AM »

Nay
Logged
Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
Dwarven Dragon
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,580
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.42, S: -0.52

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2021, 06:35:14 PM »

Amendment fails 1-5-1

Moving for a final vote.
Logged
Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon
Dwarven Dragon
Atlas Politician
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 31,580
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.42, S: -0.52

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2021, 11:51:31 AM »

Question is on passage of the bill.


No (at least for now)
Logged
AGA
Atlas Politician
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 5,267
United States


Political Matrix
E: 0.39, S: -5.39

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2021, 12:44:06 PM »

Nay
Logged
Crane
Atlas Politician
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 9,080


Political Matrix
E: -8.16, S: 3.22

P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2021, 11:28:35 PM »

Aye
Logged
JoeInator
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 389
United States


Political Matrix
E: -5.55, S: -4.00

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2021, 08:41:46 AM »

Aye
Logged
SN2903
Junior Chimp
*****
Posts: 6,676
United States


Political Matrix
E: -1.48, S: 3.91

P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2021, 09:18:19 AM »

Nay
Logged
Pages: [1] 2  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.045 seconds with 13 queries.