GOP Politicians are not actually personally less honorable then they were in 1973
       |           

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 20, 2021, 06:28:55 AM

  Talk Elections
  General Politics
  U.S. General Discussion (Moderators: TexasGurl, The Democratic Party Left Me)
  GOP Politicians are not actually personally less honorable then they were in 1973
« previous next »
Pages: [1]
Author Topic: GOP Politicians are not actually personally less honorable then they were in 1973  (Read 653 times)
Old School Republican
Computer89
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,189


Political Matrix
E: 3.23, S: 0.35

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« on: May 10, 2021, 12:56:18 AM »
« edited: May 10, 2021, 02:43:21 PM by Old School Republican »

You hear this talking point a lot how the GOP is a lot less honorable then they were in 1973 and while the GOP of 1973 forced their leader out over less egregious scandals than the ones committed by Trump, it was not because they were more honorable. The reason for that was the voters back then expected politicians to put country over party, care about principles and generally the nation being a 37.5-37.5 nation instead of a 46-46 one meant politicians to win elections had to appeal to wide swath of the electorate meaning not turning on Nixon would have meant electoral disaster for the GOP.

Now we live in a completely opposite world where the voters except politicians to put loyalty to the party over anything else and actively punish politicians who actually care about principles. The nation being a 46-46 nation also means that politicians generally face more danger to their political careers from angering their base than alienating swing voters meaning they have absolutely 0 incentive to do anything to the contrary, and that is why the GOP hasnt turned on Trump.  If the Republican politicians from today were around in 1973 they would have forced Nixon out too, and if the GOP politicians from 1973 were around today they would stand behind Trump as well for the same reason.


This reason is why the idea that if the GOP magically disappeared you would get a "reasonable" center right party more like Charlie Baker is complete nonsense as the reason the GOP is like this is because a large portion of the party wants the party from the right to be like this and if the GOP magically disappeared the new right of center party would probably be even more extreme than the GOP . So while yes its easy to blame the politicians for everything at some point their has to be a realization the problem goes far worse than that.


The main culprits for our politics today is by far away the media who for the past 30 years have failed us miserably with how they have covered the news and politics general. Instead of covering the news in detail and talking about different issues in depth the media and especially cable news media have turned politics into basically sports and thats exactly what it has become where just like in sports you root for the teams no matter what and people who follow the team are expected to do the same.
Logged
#PACK THE COURTS
Solid4096
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 7,385


Political Matrix
E: -8.88, S: -8.51

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2021, 04:19:41 AM »

More Old School Republican being wrong here. If overnight, a vast majority of sitting Republican officeholders decided to turn against Trump, then the base would go along with it, and decide that Trump was not a real Republican, while if only a few sitting Republican officeholders had decided to turn against Nixon back in 1973, then the base would have rallied around his defense. But the fact is that there is a major collective action problem that Republicans were able to deal with successfully in 1973, and that they have not attempted to deal with now.
Logged
Pericles
Atlas Politician
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,348



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2021, 04:25:37 AM »

It's hard to tell if the elites are truly just trapped by an insane base, or if their voters would respond if they sent a clear signal that Trump and his norm-breaking was beyond the pale. If the party leaders after each controversy are signalling to their electorate that it's ok, there's no chance those voters would find something disqualifying. It would still be a huge risk for them, their voters would most likely just lash out at the 'betrayal'. However, every Trump controversy being a Democratic vs Republican fight  means Republicans will always rally behind him.

Logged
President Johnson
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,115
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -2.84, S: -5.20


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2021, 04:28:59 AM »

The problem is that Republican politicians put their jobs over the well being of the country. If they were honest, they would turn on Trump collectively. They have failed to do so after he bribed the Ukrainian president and even after a violent insurrection on the Capitol.

Another reason Trump and the madness in general receive so much support is because of two main factors: media landscape and how voting is being done. Back in 1973, there were just a handful of TV channels all reporting basically the same and a bunch of trusted newspapers like the Times and Post. Today, there's Fox News propaganda, right-wing radio talk and countless social media channels. At the same time, the large number of safe districts and states remove incentives to work across the aisle. Most members in congress don't have to fear losing to the other side, but to a primary challenger, what causes them to go to the extremes and not the center.

In 1974, when Nixon's guilt was undeniable, Republicans turned on him. Today, the same didn't happen for Trump because (a) Republican officeholders, save a few exceptions, aren't honest and (b) a lot of Republican voters are fed with missinformation and conspiracies.
Logged
The Trump Virus
GWBFan
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 9,174


Political Matrix
E: -4.90, S: -6.61

P P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2021, 04:37:57 AM »

It would be disingenuous to say all politicians put loyalty to party above country.

By far and away that is a central characteristic of GOP politicians more than Democratic ones.

The clear solution for Republican voters who put country above party is to leave the Republican Party and commit to vote for Democrats so that maybe GOP politicians will get the message. If you remain a Republican and continue to vote for Republicans theyíll continue on as they are now.
Logged
Geoffrey Howe
Geoffrey Howe admirer
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,747
United Kingdom


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2021, 04:49:04 AM »

My customary warning that this is because you do not use the Westminster model.

(On a serious note, I have a pet theory that Canadian politics is much more sane because they use the Westminster model.)
Logged
Motorcity
Jr. Member
***
Posts: 1,476


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2021, 09:07:03 AM »

More Old School Republican being wrong here. If overnight, a vast majority of sitting Republican officeholders decided to turn against Trump, then the base would go along with it, and decide that Trump was not a real Republican, while if only a few sitting Republican officeholders had decided to turn against Nixon back in 1973, then the base would have rallied around his defense. But the fact is that there is a major collective action problem that Republicans were able to deal with successfully in 1973, and that they have not attempted to deal with now.
I strongly disagree here

If every single Republican elected official turned on Trump, he would turn on them

Look at Flake and Corker. They retired because Trump had the power to primary them
Logged
7,052,770
Harry
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,113
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2021, 09:18:30 AM »


Now we live in a completely opposite world where the voters except politicians to put loyalty to the party over anything else and actively punish politicians who actually care about principles.
The nation being a 46-46 nation also means that politicians generally face more danger to their political careers from angering their base than alienating swing voters meaning they have absolutely 0 incentive to do anything to the contrary, and that is why the GOP hasnt turned on Trump.  If the Republican politicians from today were around in 1973 they would have forced Nixon out too, and if the GOP politicians from 1973 were around today they would stand behind Trump as well for the same reason.

Only Republicans feel that way. A Democratic president who did everything Trump did would have virtually no support among Democratic politicians or Democratic voters. The Ukraine scandal would have been a near-unanimous removal, much less the Coupitol.
Logged
HagridOfTheDeep
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 8,528
Canada


Political Matrix
E: -4.00, S: -4.00


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2021, 09:20:57 AM »

Strange that you seem to think acquiescing to the whims of voters is what makes a group of politicians honourable. The GOP may be following its base, which you identify as some perverse example of loyalty, but what you seem unable to confront is the fact that the party is following its base to hell and horror. The views and actions of todayís GOP, including its voters, are inherently dishonourable, ďrepresentationĒ be damned, precisely because the well-being of the country is not top of mindócraven, corrupt, incompetent Trump is. The GOP of 1973 wanted to put country first, which makes them definitionally more honourable. Look at what their aims are, not how loyal they are in pursuing them.
Logged
Sir Mohamed
MohamedChalid
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 13,391
United States



Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2021, 09:47:56 AM »

Ugh, yes they are less honorable. 98% of them aren't honorable at all. Not saying everything was fine in the 1970s, for sure it wasn't, but Trump and his clownish cult followers are antidemocratic and corrupt scum. The GOP ultimately abandoned Nixon during Watergate for a break-in and its cover-up. That was far less of a crime than everything Mr. Trump has done. Instead, they enabled him, praised him and turned a blind eye to his many power abuses such as turning the Justice Dept. into his personal lawfirm. He didn't have to face consequences for that or January 6. McCarthy is now pushing anyone remotely critical of their orange buffoon out while MTG is getting a free ride. Anyone continuing to enable all the nonsense should have no place in public office.

And Cheney and alike don't need to appear as the big defenders of the rule of law now. She and many others who claim to be outraged, including ex-officers like Boehner, rode the tiger when it was politically expedient instead of telling their voters the truth than Trumpism and the Tea Party are crap and that Hannity and Limbaugh are lying to them. All in all, the Trump era has revealed to true colors of GOP politicans we previously could have seen as mere political opponents and not enemies of American institutions and democracy.
Logged
Mr. MANDELA BARNES
olawakandi
Atlas Institution
*****
Posts: 57,111
Jamaica


Political Matrix
E: -6.84, S: -0.17

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2021, 09:50:47 AM »

The Rs supported balanced budgets and term limits and then when Bush W ran up the deficits on bloated defense spending and Rs kept the H for 12 and 8 yrs, they were against Term Limits, I supported term limits and was dismayed by D's that they turned it down

Nixon and Rockefeller supported term limits of course and Ford due to the fact D's were the Majority party, but when the Rs came along, they stopped being for it
Logged
Old School Republican
Computer89
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,189


Political Matrix
E: 3.23, S: 0.35

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2021, 11:36:35 AM »
« Edited: May 10, 2021, 11:53:28 AM by Old School Republican »

The problem is that Republican politicians put their jobs over the well being of the country. If they were honest, they would turn on Trump collectively. They have failed to do so after he bribed the Ukrainian president and even after a violent insurrection on the Capitol.

Another reason Trump and the madness in general receive so much support is because of two main factors: media landscape and how voting is being done. Back in 1973, there were just a handful of TV channels all reporting basically the same and a bunch of trusted newspapers like the Times and Post. Today, there's Fox News propaganda, right-wing radio talk and countless social media channels. At the same time, the large number of safe districts and states remove incentives to work across the aisle. Most members in congress don't have to fear losing to the other side, but to a primary challenger, what causes them to go to the extremes and not the center.

In 1974, when Nixon's guilt was undeniable, Republicans turned on him. Today, the same didn't happen for Trump because (a) Republican officeholders, save a few exceptions, aren't honest and (b) a lot of Republican voters are fed with missinformation and conspiracies.


Iím not saying they are honorable today , Iím saying they arenít less honorable meaning I donít think these politicians were really honorable at all and think they do whatever needs  to be done to keep their jobs .

This just doenst apply to politicians but sadly to people in general cause how many people in general would really put their principles over their careers if given the choice . I sadly think not that many would anymore and what happened on Wall Street in 2008 kinda shows this as well , where the bankers knew what they were doing was wrong but did it anyway .


The expectation we have of politicians being then more honorable than the general public is the wrong one cause at the end of the day they are voted in by the general public to begin with . If the public expects politicians to be principled thatís what we will get , but if they expect politicians to put party loyalty first thatís what we will get as well .
Logged
7,052,770
Harry
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,113
Ukraine


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #12 on: May 10, 2021, 11:40:17 AM »

The problem is that Republican politicians put their jobs over the well being of the country. If they were honest, they would turn on Trump collectively. They have failed to do so after he bribed the Ukrainian president and even after a violent insurrection on the Capitol.

Another reason Trump and the madness in general receive so much support is because of two main factors: media landscape and how voting is being done. Back in 1973, there were just a handful of TV channels all reporting basically the same and a bunch of trusted newspapers like the Times and Post. Today, there's Fox News propaganda, right-wing radio talk and countless social media channels. At the same time, the large number of safe districts and states remove incentives to work across the aisle. Most members in congress don't have to fear losing to the other side, but to a primary challenger, what causes them to go to the extremes and not the center.

In 1974, when Nixon's guilt was undeniable, Republicans turned on him. Today, the same didn't happen for Trump because (a) Republican officeholders, save a few exceptions, aren't honest and (b) a lot of Republican voters are fed with missinformation and conspiracies.


Iím not saying they are honorable today , Iím saying they arenít less honorable meaning I donít think these politicians were really honorable at all and think they do whatever needs  to be done to keep their jobs .

This just doenst apply to politicians but sadly to people in general cause how many people in general would really put their principles over their careers if given the choice . I sadly think not that many would anymore and what happened on Wall Street in 2008 kinda shows this as well , where the bankers knew what they were doing was wrong but did it anyway .


So which is it, people are less committed to principles today or they aren't?
Logged
Old School Republican
Computer89
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,189


Political Matrix
E: 3.23, S: 0.35

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2021, 11:41:33 AM »
« Edited: May 10, 2021, 11:45:29 AM by Old School Republican »

Ugh, yes they are less honorable. 98% of them aren't honorable at all. Not saying everything was fine in the 1970s, for sure it wasn't, but Trump and his clownish cult followers are antidemocratic and corrupt scum. The GOP ultimately abandoned Nixon during Watergate for a break-in and its cover-up. That was far less of a crime than everything Mr. Trump has done. Instead, they enabled him, praised him and turned a blind eye to his many power abuses such as turning the Justice Dept. into his personal lawfirm. He didn't have to face consequences for that or January 6. McCarthy is now pushing anyone remotely critical of their orange buffoon out while MTG is getting a free ride. Anyone continuing to enable all the nonsense should have no place in public office.

And Cheney and alike don't need to appear as the big defenders of the rule of law now. She and many others who claim to be outraged, including ex-officers like Boehner, rode the tiger when it was politically expedient instead of telling their voters the truth than Trumpism and the Tea Party are crap and that Hannity and Limbaugh are lying to them. All in all, the Trump era has revealed to true colors of GOP politicans we previously could have seen as mere political opponents and not enemies of American institutions and democracy.


Yes , but why did they abandon Nixon back in 1974 . It was cause the American people completely turned on him and it was clear if they stuck by him republicans would get destroyed by their largest margin they have been destroyed since 1936.

Today itís the exact opposite and politicians who actually care about things such as principle and honor are the ones who get punished and voted out . So is it any surprise republicans politicians are like this .

Politicians always were about winning, itís just that the voters expected them to care about principles then while they donít today .
Logged
Forumlurker
Forumlurker161
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 7,670


P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2021, 11:50:09 AM »

Got it, so itís not Republican politicians who are horrid and anti-Democratic, itís all Republican voters.
Iím glad we can agree on this.
Logged
Old School Republican
Computer89
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,189


Political Matrix
E: 3.23, S: 0.35

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2021, 12:01:28 PM »
« Edited: May 10, 2021, 12:08:25 PM by Old School Republican »

Got it, so itís not Republican politicians who are horrid and anti-Democratic, itís all Republican voters.
Iím glad we can agree on this.
It would be disingenuous to say all politicians put loyalty to party above country.

By far and away that is a central characteristic of GOP politicians more than Democratic ones.

The clear solution for Republican voters who put country above party is to leave the Republican Party and commit to vote for Democrats so that maybe GOP politicians will get the message. If you remain a Republican and continue to vote for Republicans theyíll continue on as they are now.



I identified the main culprit behind why our politics is this bad today , and itís the media . They have totally failed this nation in every possible way in the past 25-30 years , but itís even worse than that because they are directly responsible for how polarized our nation is . They were the ones who treated politics like a sports for decade after decade , they are the ones who instead of actually discussing about the news in depth have done the exact opposite and they are the ones who disproportionately give coverage to crazy politicians as well leading to more to more of  them getting elected .



Also no democrats arenít any better and the last summer proves it
 
Logged
Forumlurker
Forumlurker161
Concerned Citizen
*****
Posts: 7,670


P P

Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2021, 12:52:12 PM »

Got it, so itís not Republican politicians who are horrid and anti-Democratic, itís all Republican voters.
Iím glad we can agree on this.
It would be disingenuous to say all politicians put loyalty to party above country.

By far and away that is a central characteristic of GOP politicians more than Democratic ones.

The clear solution for Republican voters who put country above party is to leave the Republican Party and commit to vote for Democrats so that maybe GOP politicians will get the message. If you remain a Republican and continue to vote for Republicans theyíll continue on as they are now.



I identified the main culprit behind why our politics is this bad today , and itís the media . They have totally failed this nation in every possible way in the past 25-30 years , but itís even worse than that because they are directly responsible for how polarized our nation is . They were the ones who treated politics like a sports for decade after decade , they are the ones who instead of actually discussing about the news in depth have done the exact opposite and they are the ones who disproportionately give coverage to crazy politicians as well leading to more to more of  them getting elected .



Also no democrats arenít any better and the last summer proves it
 
Protesting (and admittedly a few riots) = Trying to topple the Worldís greatest country (although I know you donít believe it is)
Logged
Old School Republican
Computer89
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,189


Political Matrix
E: 3.23, S: 0.35

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2021, 12:58:02 PM »
« Edited: May 10, 2021, 02:37:53 PM by Old School Republican »

Got it, so itís not Republican politicians who are horrid and anti-Democratic, itís all Republican voters.
Iím glad we can agree on this.
It would be disingenuous to say all politicians put loyalty to party above country.

By far and away that is a central characteristic of GOP politicians more than Democratic ones.

The clear solution for Republican voters who put country above party is to leave the Republican Party and commit to vote for Democrats so that maybe GOP politicians will get the message. If you remain a Republican and continue to vote for Republicans theyíll continue on as they are now.



I identified the main culprit behind why our politics is this bad today , and itís the media . They have totally failed this nation in every possible way in the past 25-30 years , but itís even worse than that because they are directly responsible for how polarized our nation is . They were the ones who treated politics like a sports for decade after decade , they are the ones who instead of actually discussing about the news in depth have done the exact opposite and they are the ones who disproportionately give coverage to crazy politicians as well leading to more to more of  them getting elected .



Also no democrats arenít any better and the last summer proves it
 
Protesting (and admittedly a few riots) = Trying to topple the Worldís greatest country (although I know you donít believe it is)

 January 6th was worse but the summer wasnt just a few riots . There were major riots all summer in many cities in America and Dems did absolutely nothing to stop it . The riots also resulted in a massive spike in crime rates so they made cities more unsafe too .


The people who did January 6th deserve way worse prison sentences than the rioters over the summer But that doenst make what the democratic governors did not disgraceful
Logged
President Johnson
Atlas Icon
*****
Posts: 18,115
Germany


Political Matrix
E: -2.84, S: -5.20


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2021, 02:26:29 PM »

Ugh, yes they are less honorable. 98% of them aren't honorable at all. Not saying everything was fine in the 1970s, for sure it wasn't, but Trump and his clownish cult followers are antidemocratic and corrupt scum. The GOP ultimately abandoned Nixon during Watergate for a break-in and its cover-up. That was far less of a crime than everything Mr. Trump has done. Instead, they enabled him, praised him and turned a blind eye to his many power abuses such as turning the Justice Dept. into his personal lawfirm. He didn't have to face consequences for that or January 6. McCarthy is now pushing anyone remotely critical of their orange buffoon out while MTG is getting a free ride. Anyone continuing to enable all the nonsense should have no place in public office.

And Cheney and alike don't need to appear as the big defenders of the rule of law now. She and many others who claim to be outraged, including ex-officers like Boehner, rode the tiger when it was politically expedient instead of telling their voters the truth than Trumpism and the Tea Party are crap and that Hannity and Limbaugh are lying to them. All in all, the Trump era has revealed to true colors of GOP politicans we previously could have seen as mere political opponents and not enemies of American institutions and democracy.


Yes , but why did they abandon Nixon back in 1974 . It was cause the American people completely turned on him and it was clear if they stuck by him republicans would get destroyed by their largest margin they have been destroyed since 1936.

Today itís the exact opposite and politicians who actually care about things such as principle and honor are the ones who get punished and voted out . So is it any surprise republicans politicians are like this .

Politicians always were about winning, itís just that the voters expected them to care about principles then while they donít today .


Yes, but these get replaced by less honorable people who only care about keeping their mandate rather than doing the right thing. The vast majority of Republicans with integrity and reasonable political positions who understood there needs to be compromise were thrown out since 1994 and particularly after 2010. Someone like Richard Lugar for example, or now even Brad Raffensberger, who became a target of Trump cultists for simply refusing to overturn an election he didn't have the authority to overturn. Many others refuse to do the right thing because as long as repeating Trump's lies or starting endless investigations on opponents like Benghazi that produce nothing but hot air keeps them in office, they're fine to get along with it. And the worst aspect of all that is that these people know better. Lindsey Graham or Kevin McCarthy know that the 2020 election wasn't stolen. They can't be that stupid. However, they repeat Trump's big lie anyway because doing the opposite would cause the cultists to come after them (heck, Graham wouldn't even have to bother since he was just reelected for a six year term).

Of course Nixon losing support over scandals and Trump not is a result of the media landscape today. But the solution can't be to go along with it, but for Republicans of honor to stand up it. Unfortunately, the John McCains of the world have almost extinct in the modern Republican Party.
Logged
Old School Republican
Computer89
Atlas Star
*****
Posts: 29,189


Political Matrix
E: 3.23, S: 0.35

P P P
Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2021, 02:42:24 PM »

Ugh, yes they are less honorable. 98% of them aren't honorable at all. Not saying everything was fine in the 1970s, for sure it wasn't, but Trump and his clownish cult followers are antidemocratic and corrupt scum. The GOP ultimately abandoned Nixon during Watergate for a break-in and its cover-up. That was far less of a crime than everything Mr. Trump has done. Instead, they enabled him, praised him and turned a blind eye to his many power abuses such as turning the Justice Dept. into his personal lawfirm. He didn't have to face consequences for that or January 6. McCarthy is now pushing anyone remotely critical of their orange buffoon out while MTG is getting a free ride. Anyone continuing to enable all the nonsense should have no place in public office.

And Cheney and alike don't need to appear as the big defenders of the rule of law now. She and many others who claim to be outraged, including ex-officers like Boehner, rode the tiger when it was politically expedient instead of telling their voters the truth than Trumpism and the Tea Party are crap and that Hannity and Limbaugh are lying to them. All in all, the Trump era has revealed to true colors of GOP politicans we previously could have seen as mere political opponents and not enemies of American institutions and democracy.


Yes , but why did they abandon Nixon back in 1974 . It was cause the American people completely turned on him and it was clear if they stuck by him republicans would get destroyed by their largest margin they have been destroyed since 1936.

Today itís the exact opposite and politicians who actually care about things such as principle and honor are the ones who get punished and voted out . So is it any surprise republicans politicians are like this .

Politicians always were about winning, itís just that the voters expected them to care about principles then while they donít today .


Yes, but these get replaced by less honorable people who only care about keeping their mandate rather than doing the right thing. The vast majority of Republicans with integrity and reasonable political positions who understood there needs to be compromise were thrown out since 1994 and particularly after 2010. Someone like Richard Lugar for example, or now even Brad Raffensberger, who became a target of Trump cultists for simply refusing to overturn an election he didn't have the authority to overturn. Many others refuse to do the right thing because as long as repeating Trump's lies or starting endless investigations on opponents like Benghazi that produce nothing but hot air keeps them in office, they're fine to get along with it. And the worst aspect of all that is that these people know better. Lindsey Graham or Kevin McCarthy know that the 2020 election wasn't stolen. They can't be that stupid. However, they repeat Trump's big lie anyway because doing the opposite would cause the cultists to come after them (heck, Graham wouldn't even have to bother since he was just reelected for a six year term).

Of course Nixon losing support over scandals and Trump not is a result of the media landscape today. But the solution can't be to go along with it, but for Republicans of honor to stand up it. Unfortunately, the John McCains of the world have almost extinct in the modern Republican Party.


I 100% wish there were more John McCain's and Mitt Romney's but you only get those types of politicians if the voters also want their politicians to be like John McCain and Mitt Romney rather than Kevin McCarthy and Lindsey Graham.  Sadly I dont think its just politicians but I think its society as a whole that punish principle now days.


People who take shortcuts, and seemingly dont care about principles seem to get promoted, get more investors etc while people who do the right thing and care about principles many times the exact opposite happens
Logged
Badger
badger
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,645
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2021, 04:30:09 PM »

Trump's disapproval rating other than about a week or two after the January 6th insurrection remained steadily in the mid-50s, and his approval rating remain solidly in the mid to low 40s depending on which poll you reviewed. Nixon disapproval rating was well into the mid-60s during the height of Watergate and his approval rating sank below 30%. Republicans and conservatives today are willing to give Trump a pass for abuse of the presidency arguably far worse than Watergate than they were for Nixon less than 40 years ago.

Literally 90 + percent of Republican voters and politicians come into two camps, the dominant 1 of shamefully starch trumpist supporters who Porter on outright authoritarianism and wanting to shut down democracy, and a somewhat smaller core of Motors and Republican politician to 110% enable trumpism by trying to harness it for enacting their conservative agenda. Less than 10% of the party is actually willing to stand up to him like Liz Cheney and others. That is a far cry and just simply an inapt comparison to the cop of the mid-70s where people trying to defend or Naval Nixon in the height of Watergate were the slim minority of the party.

Sorry I was sorry, but you still have some hard internal conversations to have.
Logged
Badger
badger
Atlas Superstar
*****
Posts: 32,645
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2021, 04:32:40 PM »

Ugh, yes they are less honorable. 98% of them aren't honorable at all. Not saying everything was fine in the 1970s, for sure it wasn't, but Trump and his clownish cult followers are antidemocratic and corrupt scum. The GOP ultimately abandoned Nixon during Watergate for a break-in and its cover-up. That was far less of a crime than everything Mr. Trump has done. Instead, they enabled him, praised him and turned a blind eye to his many power abuses such as turning the Justice Dept. into his personal lawfirm. He didn't have to face consequences for that or January 6. McCarthy is now pushing anyone remotely critical of their orange buffoon out while MTG is getting a free ride. Anyone continuing to enable all the nonsense should have no place in public office.

And Cheney and alike don't need to appear as the big defenders of the rule of law now. She and many others who claim to be outraged, including ex-officers like Boehner, rode the tiger when it was politically expedient instead of telling their voters the truth than Trumpism and the Tea Party are crap and that Hannity and Limbaugh are lying to them. All in all, the Trump era has revealed to true colors of GOP politicans we previously could have seen as mere political opponents and not enemies of American institutions and democracy.


Yes , but why did they abandon Nixon back in 1974 . It was cause the American people completely turned on him and it was clear if they stuck by him republicans would get destroyed by their largest margin they have been destroyed since 1936.

Today itís the exact opposite and politicians who actually care about things such as principle and honor are the ones who get punished and voted out . So is it any surprise republicans politicians are like this .

Politicians always were about winning, itís just that the voters expected them to care about principles then while they donít today .


Yes, but these get replaced by less honorable people who only care about keeping their mandate rather than doing the right thing. The vast majority of Republicans with integrity and reasonable political positions who understood there needs to be compromise were thrown out since 1994 and particularly after 2010. Someone like Richard Lugar for example, or now even Brad Raffensberger, who became a target of Trump cultists for simply refusing to overturn an election he didn't have the authority to overturn. Many others refuse to do the right thing because as long as repeating Trump's lies or starting endless investigations on opponents like Benghazi that produce nothing but hot air keeps them in office, they're fine to get along with it. And the worst aspect of all that is that these people know better. Lindsey Graham or Kevin McCarthy know that the 2020 election wasn't stolen. They can't be that stupid. However, they repeat Trump's big lie anyway because doing the opposite would cause the cultists to come after them (heck, Graham wouldn't even have to bother since he was just reelected for a six year term).

Of course Nixon losing support over scandals and Trump not is a result of the media landscape today. But the solution can't be to go along with it, but for Republicans of honor to stand up it. Unfortunately, the John McCains of the world have almost extinct in the modern Republican Party.


I 100% wish there were more John McCain's and Mitt Romney's but you only get those types of politicians if the voters also want their politicians to be like John McCain and Mitt Romney rather than Kevin McCarthy and Lindsey Graham.  Sadly I dont think its just politicians but I think its society as a whole that punish principle now days.


People who take shortcuts, and seemingly dont care about principles seem to get promoted, get more investors etc while people who do the right thing and care about principles many times the exact opposite happens

So what's your point? That Republican voters are just as bad and addicted to either mostly being hardcore trumpist supporters, or otherwise being fully willing to an able trumpism if it means getting an agenda tax cuts and deregulation passed and damn the long-term consequences to our country and democracy? Unquestionably true, and it results in the GOP having literally ninety-plus percent of politicians being grossly dishonorable, which is nothing you can say about the mid-70s Howard Baker and Jerry Ford era Republican Party that made the Watergate investigation a fundamentally bipartisan preceding and helped ensure Nixon was forced to resign rather than try to play trench warfare in an impeachment tri, and then justifiably treated him after he left the White House as a pariah.

The contrasts with the modern GOP are starkly black and white
Logged
Storr
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 2,891
Moldova, Republic of


WWW Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2021, 04:51:05 PM »

It's simple for me, there wasn't a single House Republican that had the guts to do what Larry Hogan did in 1974 during Watergate when it came to Trump's conspiracy to withhold Congressionally given (remember the "power of the purse" from high school civics) foreign aid in order to pressure an ally (and ally at war with 7% of it's land under foreign occupation, no less!) to give him "dirt" on a likely 2020 opponent:

Logged
fight the global techocracy
freepcrusher
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 3,377
United States


Show only this user's posts in this thread
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2021, 05:34:22 PM »

There were conservative republicans and liberal democrats back then too but the difference is that they were an organic creation of the place that they came from. So Bob Michel (conservative R) was a good representative of what Central IL is like and Ed Boland (liberal D) was a good representative of small city/ethnic MA. I also feel that the backstory pre-political life for republicans and democrats wasn't as big as it is now. Hugh Carey had something like 14 kids yet he wasn't some RW lunatic.

The biggest thing though is the information flow which was obviously restricted back then andprevented the far right or far left from dominating the public space. Even today, most of the elected republicans and elected democrats are backbenchers who keep a low profile. 

Logged
Pages: [1]  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Terms of Service - DMCA Agent and Policy - Privacy Policy and Cookies

Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines

Page created in 0.217 seconds with 15 queries.