Progressives: Should we let some states secede?
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  Progressives: Should we let some states secede?
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Author Topic: Progressives: Should we let some states secede?  (Read 1591 times)
Fmr. Gov. NickG
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« on: May 03, 2021, 10:45:57 PM »

Suppose a constitutional amendment were proposed that would allow a state state to secede from the union if it was supported in a referendum by 60% of the state’s population.

Should progressives support this? 
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I’m not Stu
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« Reply #1 on: May 03, 2021, 10:46:49 PM »

Yes.
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Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin
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« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2021, 10:57:07 PM »

Yes.
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Fmr. Gov. NickG
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« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2021, 11:06:03 PM »

Honestly I’m trying to think of what the downside to this could be.  Perhaps it should require affirmative votes in two consecutive referenda spaced a couple years apart.
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Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist
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« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2021, 11:14:29 PM »

No. We are going to drag places like Arkansas and North Dakota into the 21st century whether they like it or not.
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Darthpi – Anti-Florida Activist
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« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2021, 11:16:06 PM »

Honestly I’m trying to think of what the downside to this could be.  Perhaps it should require affirmative votes in two consecutive referenda spaced a couple years apart.

The inevitable denial of basic rights to marginalized groups in those states by bigoted governments that would no longer face any federal oversight?
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Fmr. Gov. NickG
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2021, 11:25:53 PM »

Honestly I’m trying to think of what the downside to this could be.  Perhaps it should require affirmative votes in two consecutive referenda spaced a couple years apart.

The inevitable denial of basic rights to marginalized groups in those states by bigoted governments that would no longer face any federal oversight?

The states that might secede all have tiny populations compared to the tens of millions of people whose rights would be enhanced in a slightly smaller and reformed union.
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Yoda
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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2021, 11:32:26 PM »
« Edited: May 03, 2021, 11:39:09 PM by Yoda »

1000% yes.

Then after all (or even just some)of the Dumbf***istan states leave, we can finally get DC and Puerto Rico statehood through the Senate, we can finally undo republican court packing by expanding SCOTUS (as well as the # of district and appellate judges), just for starters.
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Damocles
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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2021, 11:36:03 PM »

No. We had an actual war about this which resulted in half a million dead men, hundreds of thousands of more maimed and disabled, and the very existence of the Union threatened by traitors.

I grew up not far from the sacred ground of Cemetery Ridge. George Meade’s Army of the Potomac stopped these conniving traitors dead in their tracks, and set them on the course to defeat and eventual annihilation.

They will be dragged, kicking and screaming, into the 21st century. Anything less is an insult to the men who proudly stood strong, and gave their lives, in our darkest hour.
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Starry Eyed Jagaloon
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« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2021, 11:41:02 PM »

Under absolutely no circumstances.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #10 on: May 03, 2021, 11:51:36 PM »

Honestly I’m trying to think of what the downside to this could be.  Perhaps it should require affirmative votes in two consecutive referenda spaced a couple years apart.

The inevitable denial of basic rights to marginalized groups in those states by bigoted governments that would no longer face any federal oversight?

The states that might secede all have tiny populations compared to the tens of millions of people whose rights would be enhanced in a slightly smaller and reformed union.
Anyone who thinks the GOP wouldn't just adjust and be able to win in an America that has 2-3 safe GOP states spun off into their own nations is either kidding themselves or in delusion.
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The world will shine with light in our nightmare
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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2021, 12:01:02 AM »

Honestly I’m trying to think of what the downside to this could be.  Perhaps it should require affirmative votes in two consecutive referenda spaced a couple years apart.

The inevitable denial of basic rights to marginalized groups in those states by bigoted governments that would no longer face any federal oversight?

The states that might secede all have tiny populations compared to the tens of millions of people whose rights would be enhanced in a slightly smaller and reformed union.

And all those states would be forfeiting the benefits that come with being members of the Union. Wyoming and the Dakotas couldn't survive as independent countries. Most states except the four or five largest ones wouldn't go anywhere without the Union, and even the ones that could survive independently on paper (California, Texas) would find themselves missing their federal benefits and military protection pretty quickly.
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YE
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« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2021, 12:05:26 AM »

Are you people insane?
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Dr. MB
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« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2021, 12:09:28 AM »

Texas would be one thing but imagine if like Wyoming seceded how messed up the map would look. Pretty much any secession vote would be a reaction to whoever's in the White House. Horrible idea.
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John Dule
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« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2021, 12:32:33 AM »

No. We should be adding to our territory, not subtracting from it.
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omar04
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« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2021, 01:48:08 AM »

Honestly I’m trying to think of what the downside to this could be.  Perhaps it should require affirmative votes in two consecutive referenda spaced a couple years apart.

The inevitable denial of basic rights to marginalized groups in those states by bigoted governments that would no longer face any federal oversight?

The states that might secede all have tiny populations compared to the tens of millions of people whose rights would be enhanced in a slightly smaller and reformed union.

And all those states would be forfeiting the benefits that come with being members of the Union. Wyoming and the Dakotas couldn't survive as independent countries. Most states except the four or five largest ones wouldn't go anywhere without the Union, and even the ones that could survive independently on paper (California, Texas) would find themselves missing their federal benefits and military protection pretty quickly.

it's not like Texas and California or any state have any serious military threats.
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VBM
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« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2021, 01:58:11 AM »

No. We should be adding to our territory, not subtracting from it.
What’s this supposed to mean?
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2021, 01:59:44 AM »

No. We should be adding to our territory, not subtracting from it.
What’s this supposed to mean?
Presumably expanding the borders of the US. Not sure what direction Dule is suggesting, if any.
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BlueSwan
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« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2021, 02:02:35 AM »

Suppose a constitutional amendment were proposed that would allow a state state to secede from the union if it was supported in a referendum by 60% of the state’s population.

Should progressives support this? 
Well, yes.

Splitting up the US is a BAD idea, but I don't see how you should go against the wishes of 60%+ of the population of a state.

However, there should be a transitional phase where people could move in and out of the US and that state before it took effect. We wouldn't want US citizens suddenly trapped in some hellhole Qanon regressive state with no way out.
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BlueSwan
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« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2021, 02:05:15 AM »

Texas would be one thing but imagine if like Wyoming seceded how messed up the map would look. Pretty much any secession vote would be a reaction to whoever's in the White House. Horrible idea.
Well, turning Wyoming in to some sort of Qanon refuge with Donald Trump as dictator for life, seperate from the United States might have SOME benefits. Seperate the crazy from the rest of us.

But yeah, I still think breaking up the US is an inherently bad idea.
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John Dule
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« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2021, 03:03:46 AM »

No. We should be adding to our territory, not subtracting from it.
What’s this supposed to mean?
Presumably expanding the borders of the US. Not sure what direction Dule is suggesting, if any.

North.
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ugabug
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« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2021, 04:30:14 AM »

Granted i'm not a progressive, but i would be completely opposed to to any form of succession.
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Nightcore Nationalist
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« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2021, 06:40:38 AM »

lmao at the "yes" votes

No. We should be adding to our territory, not subtracting from it.

based.
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AtorBoltox
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« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2021, 06:47:33 AM »

If the secession drive is pushed by neo-confederates or their ilk, then no. The United States should never allow a dagger to be held at it's back in this manner.
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beesley
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« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2021, 06:53:42 AM »

Granted i'm not a progressive, but i would be completely opposed to to any form of succession.

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