Why were southerners particularly violent people back then?
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May 09, 2021, 06:30:10 PM

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  Why were southerners particularly violent people back then?
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The Arizonan
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« on: May 02, 2021, 12:05:11 AM »

From what I’ve read, southerners were more likely in general to pick fights and engage in duels. Preston Brooks caned Charles Sumner over a speech he gave on the floor.
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One Term Floridian
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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2021, 12:09:51 AM »

From what I’ve read, southerners were more likely in general to pick fights and engage in duels. Preston Brooks caned Charles Sumner over a speech he gave on the floor.

Must be the humidity
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Bootes Void
iamaganster123
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2021, 12:53:00 AM »

In the book "Black Rednecks and White Liberals", Thomas Sowell mentions that most of them brought their culture over from northern England where this type of attitude was prevalent. This was the culture of the culture of their ancestors, although I have no idea it is a 100% true, but it seems likely.
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SecularGlobalist
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2021, 04:21:18 AM »

To Preserve the Sanctity of White Women.  

Don't blame them, either.  Mormon chicks are hot.
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Stranger in a strange land
strangeland
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2021, 10:25:15 AM »

Honor culture, derived from the culture of the Scottish Highlands where the honor of oneself and one's clan were of paramount importance, was the main reason. You can still see echoes of this today even though it isn't as overt.
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Samof94
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2021, 11:28:12 AM »

Honor culture, derived from the culture of the Scottish Highlands where the honor of oneself and one's clan were of paramount importance, was the main reason. You can still see echoes of this today even though it isn't as overt.
Like gun control?
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2021, 10:15:33 AM »

Honor culture, derived from the culture of the Scottish Highlands where the honor of oneself and one's clan were of paramount importance, was the main reason. You can still see echoes of this today even though it isn't as overt.

If we're making the assumption that the South's Culture of Honor is a strictly colonial import (which is not 100% the case, I believe) then this explanation misses a really big part of the story in that it doesn't account for the traditions and culture of the Southern planter aristocracy, who were mostly from the South of England or France instead of the Scottish or Welsh Highlands.  The planter class was much more influenced by feudal ideas of chivalry and self-restraint than the clan dynamics of the Scots-Irish.

What you're describing is the "Hatfield vs McCoy" type drama that defined rural upland culture from Oklahoma to New York (i.e., not a Southern cultural artifact at all.)  The Culture of Honor that defined the Southern planter class is of an entirely different typology, even if our contemporary understanding of the region glosses over this important distinction.     
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2021, 06:23:55 PM »

Honor culture, derived from the culture of the Scottish Highlands where the honor of oneself and one's clan were of paramount importance, was the main reason. You can still see echoes of this today even though it isn't as overt.

The Borders, not the Highlands. The former were far more violent and lawless than the latter, and where most of the Scottish settlers in Ulster were transplanted from. They were also Presbyterian rather than the Catholic and Gaelic-speaking Highlanders.     
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Filuwaúrdjan
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« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2021, 08:12:36 PM »

It had nothing to do with a spurious backwards-projected 'honour' culture from the old country and everything to do with the fact that it was a slave society. A slave society (as opposed to a society with slaves) is organised around what amounts to institutionalised brutality and the institutionalised brutalisation of the entirety of that society. Which is also why it is peculiarly violent to-day: note that all of the other post-slavery societies in the New World have the same sad issue.
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DINGO Joe
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« Reply #9 on: May 03, 2021, 10:45:31 PM »

Honor culture, derived from the culture of the Scottish Highlands where the honor of oneself and one's clan were of paramount importance, was the main reason. You can still see echoes of this today even though it isn't as overt.

The Borders, not the Highlands. The former were far more violent and lawless than the latter, and where most of the Scottish settlers in Ulster were transplanted from. They were also Presbyterian rather than the Catholic and Gaelic-speaking Highlanders.     

They scooped up plenty of English from the Borders too as I've learned from genealogy.  Though just how Scottish or English the people along the Border considered themselves is a bit vague too (clans were all that mattered)  Just adds another layer to the absurdity of the US term Scotch-Irish
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Kingpoleon
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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2021, 09:44:55 AM »

It had nothing to do with a spurious backwards-projected 'honour' culture from the old country and everything to do with the fact that it was a slave society. A slave society (as opposed to a society with slaves) is organised around what amounts to institutionalised brutality and the institutionalised brutalisation of the entirety of that society. Which is also why it is peculiarly violent to-day: note that all of the other post-slavery societies in the New World have the same sad issue.
I’m not entirely sure this is accurate - one thing we seem to know is that police brutality is less bad in the South today than in the rest of America. Now, this could be due to a variety of factors, but I don’t think we can easily identify singular sociological causes.

For example of a different cause: Nathan & I have written previously on here on a sociological “trend” of racism shifting to the upper South, particularly Appalachia, and then increasing in the North & West of the country relative to the South. It seems as though at least part of the reason for this is the larger black population in the South relative to the rest of the country.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2021, 11:53:06 PM »

It had nothing to do with a spurious backwards-projected 'honour' culture from the old country and everything to do with the fact that it was a slave society. A slave society (as opposed to a society with slaves) is organised around what amounts to institutionalised brutality and the institutionalised brutalisation of the entirety of that society. Which is also why it is peculiarly violent to-day: note that all of the other post-slavery societies in the New World have the same sad issue.
I’m not entirely sure this is accurate - one thing we seem to know is that police brutality is less bad in the South today than in the rest of America. Now, this could be due to a variety of factors, but I don’t think we can easily identify singular sociological causes.

For example of a different cause: Nathan & I have written previously on here on a sociological “trend” of racism shifting to the upper South, particularly Appalachia, and then increasing in the North & West of the country relative to the South. It seems as though at least part of the reason for this is the larger black population in the South relative to the rest of the country.

While I actually do agree with Al to an extent, in terms of the slave society as that is too often not account for in consideration of relevant matters, I think you have a point on this shift of sorts.

Part of it might be educational attainment as low country Southern whites would be more educated, more liberal in the current times and thus less likely to engage in similar racialized politics that their parents and grandparents did. At the same time immigration and the demographic tension caused by migrant labor has introduced a kind of politics in the current day to the upper South, that was not present in 60s and 70s when upper South areas maintained far better Democratic support then the low country.
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Samof94
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« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2021, 06:57:13 AM »

It had nothing to do with a spurious backwards-projected 'honour' culture from the old country and everything to do with the fact that it was a slave society. A slave society (as opposed to a society with slaves) is organised around what amounts to institutionalised brutality and the institutionalised brutalisation of the entirety of that society. Which is also why it is peculiarly violent to-day: note that all of the other post-slavery societies in the New World have the same sad issue.
I’m not entirely sure this is accurate - one thing we seem to know is that police brutality is less bad in the South today than in the rest of America. Now, this could be due to a variety of factors, but I don’t think we can easily identify singular sociological causes.

For example of a different cause: Nathan & I have written previously on here on a sociological “trend” of racism shifting to the upper South, particularly Appalachia, and then increasing in the North & West of the country relative to the South. It seems as though at least part of the reason for this is the larger black population in the South relative to the rest of the country.

While I actually do agree with Al to an extent, in terms of the slave society as that is too often not account for in consideration of relevant matters, I think you have a point on this shift of sorts.

Part of it might be educational attainment as low country Southern whites would be more educated, more liberal in the current times and thus less likely to engage in similar racialized politics that their parents and grandparents did. At the same time immigration and the demographic tension caused by migrant labor has introduced a kind of politics in the current day to the upper South, that was not present in 60s and 70s when upper South areas maintained far better Democratic support then the low country.
Latinx migration too.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2021, 09:59:52 AM »

For example of a different cause: Nathan & I have written previously on here on a sociological “trend” of racism shifting to the upper South, particularly Appalachia, and then increasing in the North & West of the country relative to the South. It seems as though at least part of the reason for this is the larger black population in the South relative to the rest of the country.

I think it's the inverse.  You're seeing "more racist" attitudes in the Northeast and Midwest because they, like the historical South, are becoming more non-White.  This is especially the case in "legacy" industrial cities and inner-ring suburbs that were once the epicenter of middle-income, White America.  Diversity must exist in a place prior to there being any observable racial conflict, after all, and that diversity is something Yankee parts of the country largely missed out on historically.
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MR. KAYNE WEST
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« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2021, 03:11:52 PM »

These people were Democrats but they were States Rights D's and they believed Afro Americans were their property. Rs had the wealth and we're lawyers like John Adams and Lincoln and the only way to complete with that prestige was defend slavery
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