Columbus, OH police officer fatally shoots 15 year old Black girl

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

Couldn’t the cop have used a taser or some other non-lethal way of subduing her?

Tasers seem to be less effective (esp on <3m distance) https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/729922975/despite-widespread-use-police-rate-tasers-as-less-effective-than-believed


And in such a case, the priority is (as it should be) to save the innocent (the one being stabbed).

[Badger]

Why do these always happen in the midwest?

Easily the most racist part of the country

That's some grade A projection right there.

Whether the South or Midwest is more racist is not easy to measure, but the Midwest is without a doubt more segregated. Just look at demographic maps of Detroit, Chicago and Milwaukee. Columbus is an exception though, it's reasonably well integrated.

This is somewhat true oh, but perhaps exaggerated when one looks at maps of places like Memphis or New Orleans.

That said, the sociology Professor friend of mine I mentioned earlier in this thread once commented to me that the difference between racism in the South versus racism the north is that in the South whites tell blacks you can get as close as you want just don't get too uppity, whereas in the North White's tell blacks you can get as uppity as you want, just don't get too close.

[wbrocks67]

Couldn’t the cop have used a taser or some other non-lethal way of subduing her?

Tasers seem to be less effective (esp on <3m distance) https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/729922975/despite-widespread-use-police-rate-tasers-as-less-effective-than-believed


And in such a case, the priority is (as it should be) to save the innocent (the one being stabbed).

but is that the whole story though? The 15-year old called the police to her own house because these girls wouldn't leave her alone, allegedly. So in theory, this 15-year old could've been defending herself from these girls prior to the police showing up. Again, why would she call the police if she was just going to stab them for no reason? (i.e. it wasn't self-defense and they weren't doing anything to her)

See The Daily Beast tweet below. The girl being stabbed might not have necessarily been the innocent victim here.

Also, this is another example of police failing de-escalation.

[wbrocks67]

Well, I have seen the body cam footage and so my judgement was premature. Still a very sad situation all around.

I hope this is a valuable lesson in that one shouldn't jump into a single story when it comes to incidents like this and rather wait for some further information like I did. Good on you for changing your view though rather than digging deeper into a hole.

I do agree it is unfortunate circumstances had to lead to someone being shot although it may have been the least of all evils.

But this is the problem - sometimes the body cam footage doesn't tell the whole story. And it doesn't appear we DO have the full story yet, because a lot still doesn't make sense. So you're jumping to premature conclusions as well that the police were justified.

It certainly *sounds* like this was a case of self-defense and this girl was protecting herself against these girls because they had done something to her. But on that same tip, that is something you wouldn't see in the tape.

https://twitter.com/thedailybeast/status/1384661566352723970?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw...

[wbrocks67]

I really can't see an argument for self defense once the cops arrived. Right before she was about to stab the pink girl, the pink girl was literally walking away from the situation and towards the cops. Everyone was reasonably safe once the cops arrived.

Respect to the cop for the accuracy in shooting only at the stabber and not the girl in pink. Even at close range that seems like a relatively tough shot.

We don't know what happened before the body cam footage starts or why the girl called the police though. Not saying it was warranted, but there's obviously context missing here.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

The officer is not a telepath. He came and in literally 5 seconds saw a girl trying to stab another girl with a god damn knife. De-escalate?

Could he use other means? May be, he could, but the trade-off would be a higher chance of the girl in pink to being stabbed.

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/729922975/despite-widespread-use-police-rate-tasers-as-less-effective-than-believed

[7,052,770]

It's tough to criticize a split-second decision, but it would have been better for the officer to follow President Biden's suggestion to shoot in the leg.

[wbrocks67]

The officer is not a telepath. He came and in literally 5 seconds saw a girl trying to stab another girl with a god damn knife. De-escalate?

Could he use other means? May be, he could, but the trade-off would be a higher chance of the girl in pink to being stabbed.

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/729922975/despite-widespread-use-police-rate-tasers-as-less-effective-than-believed

The officer also knew why he was there though, which we don't know all the details. It's quite possibly that he was responding to an abusive situation (which is why the girl called the police in the first place) and that would make sense why there was so much activity as soon as he got there. So his response to this situation is to just shoot her 4 times? *FOUR* times? When she was the one being abused, allegedly, before he got there, and she was the one who called in the first place?

For all we know the girl in the pink was abusing her and she fought back.

[they don't love you like i love you]

It's tough to criticize a split-second decision, but it would have been better for the officer to follow President Biden's suggestion to shoot in the leg.

That was an ignorant comment from Biden and wouldn't be applicable in this case. Even an Olympic sharpshooter would have difficulty hitting a leg on a moving person in the split second time available like in that video. That's a movie trope, not a realistic thing.

[they don't love you like i love you]

The officer is not a telepath. He came and in literally 5 seconds saw a girl trying to stab another girl with a god damn knife. De-escalate?

Could he use other means? May be, he could, but the trade-off would be a higher chance of the girl in pink to being stabbed.

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/729922975/despite-widespread-use-police-rate-tasers-as-less-effective-than-believed

The officer also knew why he was there though, which we don't know all the details. It's quite possibly that he was responding to an abusive situation (which is why the girl called the police in the first place) and that would make sense why there was so much activity as soon as he got there. So his response to this situation is to just shoot her 4 times? *FOUR* times? When she was the one being abused, allegedly, before he got there, and she was the one who called in the first place?

For all we know the girl in the pink was abusing her and she fought back.

The girl in the pink appears at the start of the video before the girl with the knife rushes into the scene. We then see her chase another girl who that guy kicks in the head when she's on the ground and then lunges with the knife toward the girl in the pink. Hard to claim self defense when the girl in the pink was already quite a distance from her before she chased in and lunged at her. Even if she was abused by the girl in the pink earlier that doesn't give her the right to chase her down and stab her once she's no longer a threat. Indo.t know the exact details of Ohio law on this but even a "stand your ground" law doesn't allow that, that merely eliminates the "duty to retreat" instead of creating a right to chase.

Still a very sad and unfortunate situation all around.

[lfromnj]

It's tough to criticize a split-second decision, but it would have been better for the officer to follow President Biden's suggestion to shoot in the leg.

That was an ignorant comment from Biden and wouldn't be applicable in this case. Even an Olympic sharpshooter would have difficulty hitting a leg on a moving person in the split second time available like in that video. That's a movie trope, not a realistic thing.

Not just moving,but moving with the other person very nearby. I'm  honestly surprised the officer took the shots in the first place although I assume he has more training to make that call and he may have saw a proper angle considering he didn't actually hit anyone else.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

For those arguing the cop should've used a taser, even if didn't end up like Adam Toledo, tasers aren't magic bullets. (Bad pun intended.)

In any case, this one's gonna be difficult to resolve.

[Arizona Iced Tea]

Tasers do not work 100% of the time. When facing lethal force the most guaranteed move is to respond with lethal force.

[jimrtex]

Couldn’t the cop have used a taser or some other non-lethal way of subduing her?

Tasers seem to be less effective (esp on <3m distance) https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/729922975/despite-widespread-use-police-rate-tasers-as-less-effective-than-believed


And in such a case, the priority is (as it should be) to save the innocent (the one being stabbed).

but is that the whole story though? The 15-year old called the police to her own house because these girls wouldn't leave her alone, allegedly. So in theory, this 15-year old could've been defending herself from these girls prior to the police showing up. Again, why would she call the police if she was just going to stab them for no reason? (i.e. it wasn't self-defense and they weren't doing anything to her)

See The Daily Beast tweet below. The girl being stabbed might not have necessarily been the innocent victim here.

Also, this is another example of police failing de-escalation.

The girl was in foster care. Her mother says she last talked to her on Thursday when the girl said she was looking forward to coming home.

You also have the male who was kicking the first girl who was knocked down.

Lots of information missing.

[lfromnj]

The officer is not a telepath. He came and in literally 5 seconds saw a girl trying to stab another girl with a god damn knife. De-escalate?

Could he use other means? May be, he could, but the trade-off would be a higher chance of the girl in pink to being stabbed.

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/729922975/despite-widespread-use-police-rate-tasers-as-less-effective-than-believed

The officer also knew why he was there though, which we don't know all the details. It's quite possibly that he was responding to an abusive situation (which is why the girl called the police in the first place) and that would make sense why there was so much activity as soon as he got there. So his response to this situation is to just shoot her 4 times? *FOUR* times? When she was the one being abused, allegedly, before he got there, and she was the one who called in the first place?

For all we know the girl in the pink was abusing her and she fought back.

The girl in the pink appears at the start of the video before the girl with the knife rushes into the scene. We then see her chase another girl who that guy kicks in the head when she's on the ground and then lunges with the knife toward the girl in the pink. Hard to claim self defense when the girl in the pink was already quite a distance from her before she chased in and lunged at her. Even if she was abused by the girl in the pink earlier that doesn't give her the right to chase her down and stab her once she's no longer a threat. Indo.t know the exact details of Ohio law on this but even a "stand your ground" law doesn't allow that, that merely eliminates the "duty to retreat" instead of creating a right to chase.

Still a very sad and unfortunate situation all around.

One does have a reasonable right to chase to perform a citizen's arrest if need be. However there is 0 need for a citizen's arrest when the cops are literally right there unless the cops themselves run into some trouble.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

It's sad that this led to a death (and of someone so young), but the person who got shot was literally about to stab someone to death with a knife that was clearly visible.  This seems like a pretty textbook example of a case when the use of deadly force by an officer was perfectly justified.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

For those arguing the cop should've used a taser, even if didn't end up like Adam Toledo, tasers aren't magic bullets. (Bad pun intended.)

In any case, this one's gonna be difficult to resolve.

You’re right, but I just in general have issues with the shoot first mentality, here it does seem to be justified but the point still stands. There are scenarios where severe force is needed, like this example, and I don’t want to say “he could’ve taken her down with x” but I think there should be some series and in-depth studies and trial runs of having traffic/patrol cops replacing their guns with significant but non-lethal weapons. I think that some cops should have guns, but those should only be sent out in incidents where the person being called on is known to be a significant threat, such as an armed subject. 

[7,052,770]

It's tough to criticize a split-second decision, but it would have been better for the officer to follow President Biden's suggestion to shoot in the leg.

That was an ignorant comment from Biden and wouldn't be applicable in this case. Even an Olympic sharpshooter would have difficulty hitting a leg on a moving person in the split second time available like in that video. That's a movie trope, not a realistic thing.

I agree this is not a great case to make a stand over, but her backside/thighs are as big of a target as her chest in that video.

[Sprouts Farmers Market ✘]

https://twitter.com/BreeNewsome/status/1384725341550305281?s=20

Just ban them from carrying guns already so we don't have this problem! It's ridiculous. She may not have had a legal right to go after the other girl, but she was probably the oppressed victim nevertheless, and no one had any way to know that 2 seconds after arriving. No one is ever really an innocent victim. Awful conclusion to the life of someone with a bright future despite the torments she faced so early in her life.

[lfromnj]

By the way I said early on, Wait for the Bodycam as early stories are often lies. This also can apply to the police as most infamously happened during the Walter Scott shooting.

[Del Tachi]

Why do these always happen in the midwest?

Easily the most racist part of the country

That's some grade A projection right there.

Whether the South or Midwest is more racist is not easy to measure, but the Midwest is without a doubt more segregated. Just look at demographic maps of Detroit, Chicago and Milwaukee. Columbus is an exception though, it's reasonably well integrated.

This is somewhat true oh, but perhaps exaggerated when one looks at maps of places like Memphis or New Orleans.

That said, the sociology Professor friend of mine I mentioned earlier in this thread once commented to me that the difference between racism in the South versus racism the north is that in the South whites tell blacks you can get as close as you want just don't get too uppity, whereas in the North White's tell blacks you can get us up as you want, just don't get too close.

Yes, and the result of this is that the over-policing of Black communities is a worse problem in highly-segregated, White ethnic cities like Cleveland and Detroit than in historically majority-Black places in the Deep South. 

Where I live, Jackson, is the only major metropolitan area in the U.S. to be majority Black.  I interact with more Black people in a single day than you probably do in the course of several months.  I have not seen or interacted with a single JPD officer who was White.  I don't say these things to absolve the complicated racial history of where I live, but to point out that (generally speaking) racial micro-relations down here are better than in more segregated, less diverse parts of the country.   

If you look at national statistics from 2013-20, the number of police killings involving Black people was most disproportionate in the Northeast and Midwest.  A Black person is Mississippi is 1.2x more likely than a White person to be killed by a police officer, while in Ohio it was 4.8x

[Roronoa D. Law]

Yeah, this is not the same case as Floyd. It sad that she died but if someone was attempting to stab someone then this outcome was expected.

[GP270watch]

Bad shooting, some police have become such wimps.

[Tender Branson]

This could probably have been solved in a different manner, by some warning shots from the police officer instead of outright killing her.

[they don't love you like i love you]

This could probably have been solved in a different manner, by some warning shots from the police officer instead of outright killing her.

By the time it would take to shoot a warning shot the girl in the pink would already be stabbed.