Columbus, OH police officer fatally shoots 15 year old Black girl

[lfromnj]

Bodycam footage was just released

 she was running with the knife at the other girl, he shot her to stop her.

He prevented another girl from being stabbed with a deadly weapon.

Had the other girl trapped against a car and was trying to stab her.

Isn't there a stand your ground question here, legally? She was on her own property. Not sure how the law applies here though.

That being said in other circumstances there almost certainly would be people defending her as standing her ground/defending her property.

Is it certain she was on her own property? Or was it another lie told by initial witnesses? If this was actually a botched case of self defense this is tragic.

Either way she saw the cops arrive and they told her to stop and gave her some time to tell her to stop. Once the cops came she/her property, was reasonably safe from any danger.

If she was in the act of self defense I would like to see the pink girl charged for felony murder I guess.

[Badger]

Also, just a few days ago in Columbus, mostly white college students at Ohio State University during a "ChittFest" party flipped over cars and caused other damage but yet there were no arrests or killing of those students. Wonder why?

I know the answer is supposed to be "racism is the cause of everything in America", but do you really not see why police would be more averse to shooting college students (at the flagship university of the state and economic anchor of the state's fastest growing metro area, no less) than they would random townies? Opening fire on college students involves a massive added layer of legal complexity considering the university is likely to be involved in any criminal proceedings, not to mention the fact these students are likely to be from wealthy families more likely to gain institutional clout and high caliber legal defense. It's no surprise that police are more likely to not shoot the sons of privilege and instead violently target the town's dispossessed.

This isn't a defense - it's instead pointing out that American liberals (who revere higher education and the safety and social prestige it confers) are going to be much more eager to reach for a racial explanation when a class-based explanation is right beneath their noses.

Debating about how much of this double standard is due to race and how much is due to class misses two crucial points. First, it's a double standard regardless of cause which has a decidedly non race-neutral impact.

I didn't say it's not a double standard. Race and class are very obviously related to each other, especially in a major college town (I lived in a mostly black working class neighborhood my last year of college). My point was that targeting townies and not targeting college students was being framed as a race issue when other plausible explanations are quite evident.

And secondly, it's indefensible.

I quite literally said my argument was not a defense.

Right, I saw that, and agree. I'm just pointing out that the issue over whether it's race or class is secondary as to the fact it is, as we agree, indefensible.

And honestly, the class versus race question has going on for over a century. Double standards like this have their roots in both.

However, at the end of the day, if this occurred at HBUC with largely middle-class African American kids involved, you can bet your bottom dollar that white cops would have been out in full force.

[lfromnj]

Also, just a few days ago in Columbus, mostly white college students at Ohio State University during a "ChittFest" party flipped over cars and caused other damage but yet there were no arrests or killing of those students. Wonder why?

I know the answer is supposed to be "racism is the cause of everything in America", but do you really not see why police would be more averse to shooting college students (at the flagship university of the state and economic anchor of the state's fastest growing metro area, no less) than they would random townies? Opening fire on college students involves a massive added layer of legal complexity considering the university is likely to be involved in any criminal proceedings, not to mention the fact these students are likely to be from wealthy families more likely to gain institutional clout and high caliber legal defense. It's no surprise that police are more likely to not shoot the sons of privilege and instead violently target the town's dispossessed.

This isn't a defense - it's instead pointing out that American liberals (who revere higher education and the safety and social prestige it confers) are going to be much more eager to reach for a racial explanation when a class-based explanation is right beneath their noses.

Debating about how much of this double standard is due to race and how much is due to class misses two crucial points. First, it's a double standard regardless of cause which has a decidedly non race-neutral impact.

I didn't say it's not a double standard. Race and class are very obviously related to each other, especially in a major college town (I lived in a mostly black working class neighborhood my last year of college). My point was that targeting townies and not targeting college students was being framed as a race issue when other plausible explanations are quite evident.

And secondly, it's indefensible.

I quite literally said my argument was not a defense.

Right, I saw that, and agree. I'm just pointing out that the issue over whether it's race or class is secondary as to the fact it is, as we agree, indefensible.

And honestly, the class versus race question has going on for over a century. Double standards like this have their roots in both.

However, at the end of the day, if this occurred at HBUC with largely middle-class African American kids involved, you can bet your bottom dollar that white cops would have been out in full force.

This is actually a fairly middle class neighborhood judging by the housing density/lawn, and I checked the census tract too and MHI  is around 60k.

[Badger]

Bodycam footage was just released

 she was running with the knife at the other girl, he shot her to stop her.

He prevented another girl from being stabbed with a deadly weapon.

Had the other girl trapped against a car and was trying to stab her.

Isn't there a stand your ground question here, legally? She was on her own property. Not sure how the law applies here though.

That being said in other circumstances there almost certainly would be people defending her as standing her ground/defending her property.

Good question, but I don't think so. The stand-your-ground law applies for protecting oneself while one is within one's residence or vehicle. It is legally presumed by a preponderance of the evidence under Ohio law that using deadly Force Under such circumstances is self-defense. But again, that's only a preponderance, and more so only applies within the residence, not the front yard like this.

Even then, yes the prosecutor needs to prove a lack of self-defense Beyond A Reasonable Doubt. But whatever transpired beforehand even if these other girls were trying to force their way into the decedent's home previously, the decedent was clearly the aggressor and milliseconds away from stabbing that girl in the pink.

I think the cop did the right thing under an amazingly close micro second level decision. Nevertheless, it is beyond tragic that a 15 year old honor student is dead because of her teenage hormones and adrenaline of being assaulted didn't come under control soon enough for some other resolution.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

Right, I saw that, and agree. I'm just pointing out that the issue over whether it's race or class is secondary as to the fact it is, as we agree, indefensible.

And honestly, the class versus race question has going on for over a century. Double standards like this have their roots in both.

However, at the end of the day, if this occurred at HBUC with largely middle-class African American kids involved, you can bet your bottom dollar that white cops would have been out in full force.

Fair enough. I think we largely agree. I am tired of people on the left only being able to muster outrage at racial injustice while turning a blind and disinterested eye to all else.

This is actually a fairly middle class neighborhood judging by the housing density/lawn, and I checked the census tract too and MHI  is around 60k.

Can you provide a link? I tried looking but wasn't able to find this.

There's still distinction between income and class in a college town. Often it's a dividing line between students or degree holders and locals who work service or manual jobs related to the university. People who clean the classrooms and serve hungover students their breakfast are unquestionably in a different stratum than those who are attracted for some sort of knowledge-industry work.

Columbus is a large enough city that the economy is diverse and elements of this start to crumble. But  I wouldn't be surprised if some element of overpolicing the unruly townies to keep the rich college kids who pump millions into the local economy feeling safe was still present.

[lfromnj]

Can you provide a link? I tried looking but wasn't able to find this.

It says the shooting was in Legion Lane, which is just SE of I270 which is the Beltway loop around Columbus. As far as I can tell by looking at the metro income maps it seems like a slightly lower to regular middle class neighborhood.

The Ohio Bureau of Criminal Investigation was on the scene Tuesday night on the 3100 block of Legion Lane, between Chatterton and Refugee roads to investigate a fatal shooting by a Columbus police officer.

Overall unlike an area like Cleveland , Columbus is a growing metro and it makes sense that it would attract a middle class black population.

[Badger]

Also, just a few days ago in Columbus, mostly white college students at Ohio State University during a "ChittFest" party flipped over cars and caused other damage but yet there were no arrests or killing of those students. Wonder why?

I know the answer is supposed to be "racism is the cause of everything in America", but do you really not see why police would be more averse to shooting college students (at the flagship university of the state and economic anchor of the state's fastest growing metro area, no less) than they would random townies? Opening fire on college students involves a massive added layer of legal complexity considering the university is likely to be involved in any criminal proceedings, not to mention the fact these students are likely to be from wealthy families more likely to gain institutional clout and high caliber legal defense. It's no surprise that police are more likely to not shoot the sons of privilege and instead violently target the town's dispossessed.

This isn't a defense - it's instead pointing out that American liberals (who revere higher education and the safety and social prestige it confers) are going to be much more eager to reach for a racial explanation when a class-based explanation is right beneath their noses.

Debating about how much of this double standard is due to race and how much is due to class misses two crucial points. First, it's a double standard regardless of cause which has a decidedly non race-neutral impact.

I didn't say it's not a double standard. Race and class are very obviously related to each other, especially in a major college town (I lived in a mostly black working class neighborhood my last year of college). My point was that targeting townies and not targeting college students was being framed as a race issue when other plausible explanations are quite evident.

And secondly, it's indefensible.

I quite literally said my argument was not a defense.

Right, I saw that, and agree. I'm just pointing out that the issue over whether it's race or class is secondary as to the fact it is, as we agree, indefensible.

And honestly, the class versus race question has going on for over a century. Double standards like this have their roots in both.

However, at the end of the day, if this occurred at HBUC with largely middle-class African American kids involved, you can bet your bottom dollar that white cops would have been out in full force.

This is actually a fairly middle class neighborhood judging by the housing density/lawn, and I checked the census tract too and MHI  is around 60k.

That kind of proves my point, no? Though you are basically correct that it is, depending on the Block you are in, largely working-class to middle-class African-American neighborhood.

[Badger]

Right, I saw that, and agree. I'm just pointing out that the issue over whether it's race or class is secondary as to the fact it is, as we agree, indefensible.

And honestly, the class versus race question has going on for over a century. Double standards like this have their roots in both.

However, at the end of the day, if this occurred at HBUC with largely middle-class African American kids involved, you can bet your bottom dollar that white cops would have been out in full force.

Fair enough. I think we largely agree. I am tired of people on the left only being able to muster outrage at racial injustice while turning a blind and disinterested eye to all else.

This is actually a fairly middle class neighborhood judging by the housing density/lawn, and I checked the census tract too and MHI  is around 60k.

Can you provide a link? I tried looking but wasn't able to find this.

There's still distinction between income and class in a college town. Often it's a dividing line between students or degree holders and locals who work service or manual jobs related to the university. People who clean the classrooms and serve hungover students their breakfast are unquestionably in a different stratum than those who are attracted for some sort of knowledge-industry work.

Columbus is a large enough city that the economy is diverse and elements of this start to crumble. But  I wouldn't be surprised if some element of overpolicing the unruly townies to keep the rich college kids who pump millions into the local economy feeling safe was still present.

There is definitely some of that, but it carries a rather racial element to it. The blocks just south, and eventually southeast of Campus - - east of High Street all the way to I-71 and the cracks running alongside them is largely say fish student ghettos until you start hitting the far south edge of Campus, then when you start going more than a few blocks East off high it gets kind of dodgy. Those neighborhoods get kind of rough, and they are heavily African-American. New paragraph, there's been a great deal of gentrification and revitalization starting from the north edge of downtown in neighborhoods like the Short North, Italian Village and Victorian Village. A lot of gay couples moved in early on - - gays and lesbians always seem to be in the Forefront of gentrification it - - and other young couples and professionals have follow. It's getting to the point where, optimally, the sketchy neighborhoods up and down 4th Street and Summit Street between downtown and campus will be largely safe.

[DaleCooper]

Yeah if what happened in the OP is truth then it sounds really bad. However early reports are often lies, such as with the Jacob Blake story where they tried to say he was breaking up a fight when he was infact violating a restraining order. I will probably wait a little bit but it sounds very bad.

Um, she was a 15 YEAR OLD GIRL.

Also, just a few days ago in Columbus, mostly white college students at Ohio State University during a "ChittFest" party flipped over cars and caused other damage but yet there were no arrests or killing of those students. Wonder why?

To answer your question, part of it is certainly a race thing, but another part of it is that these action hero cops find it a lot easier to pretend to be John McClane or Harry Callahan when they're conducting a traffic stop or are harassing a minor. That fantasy is scarier to engage in when there's a real riot going on, which is why many of these same cops are nowhere to be found when things actually get heated.

[Del Tachi]

Why do these always happen in the midwest?

Easily the most racist part of the country

[ηєω ƒяσηтιєя]

Well, I have seen the body cam footage and so my judgement was premature. Still a very sad situation all around.

[lfromnj]

I really can't see an argument for self defense once the cops arrived. Right before she was about to stab the pink girl, the pink girl was literally walking away from the situation and towards the cops. Everyone was reasonably safe once the cops arrived.

Respect to the cop for the accuracy in shooting only at the stabber and not the girl in pink. Even at close range that seems like a relatively tough shot.

[DaleCooper]

if the details are accurate in the OP (I am waiting for more established sources), then this is really bad and could cause some serious unrest.

Yeah if what happened in the OP is truth then it sounds really bad. However early reports are often lies, such as with the Jacob Blake story where they tried to say he was breaking up a fight when he was infact violating a restraining order. I will probably wait a little bit but it sounds very bad.

Easily the most egregious example of this in my memory was the incident in Philadelphia not long after Jacob Blake where a deranged man with a knife was shot once (and unfortunately killed) as he charged a police officer. A local activist journalist tweeted out something along the lines of "Police in Philadelphia have shot an autistic boy" to fuel the already tense protests that were happening at the time. I don't remember the names or specifics unfortunately.

[lfromnj]

if the details are accurate in the OP (I am waiting for more established sources), then this is really bad and could cause some serious unrest.

Yeah if what happened in the OP is truth then it sounds really bad. However early reports are often lies, such as with the Jacob Blake story where they tried to say he was breaking up a fight when he was infact violating a restraining order. I will probably wait a little bit but it sounds very bad.

Easily the most egregious example of this in my memory was the incident in Philadelphia not long after Jacob Blake where a deranged man with a knife was shot once (and unfortunately killed) as he charged a police officer. A local activist journalist tweeted out something along the lines of "Police in Philadelphia have shot an autistic boy" to fuel the already tense protests that were happening at the time. I don't remember the names or specifics unfortunately.

That was Lancaster IIRC?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/09/14/lancaster-shooting-ricardo-munoz/

Either way its incredible how the media just ran with these idiotic witness statements without taking the time to ask around for further confirmation. They nearly caused a riot if it wasn't for the quick reaction of the police department in providing us the proper info.

[lfromnj]

Well, I have seen the body cam footage and so my judgement was premature. Still a very sad situation all around.

I hope this is a valuable lesson in that one shouldn't jump into a single story when it comes to incidents like this and rather wait for some further information like I did. Good on you for changing your view though rather than digging deeper into a hole.

I do agree it is unfortunate circumstances had to lead to someone being shot although it may have been the least of all evils.

[DaleCooper]

if the details are accurate in the OP (I am waiting for more established sources), then this is really bad and could cause some serious unrest.

Yeah if what happened in the OP is truth then it sounds really bad. However early reports are often lies, such as with the Jacob Blake story where they tried to say he was breaking up a fight when he was infact violating a restraining order. I will probably wait a little bit but it sounds very bad.

Easily the most egregious example of this in my memory was the incident in Philadelphia not long after Jacob Blake where a deranged man with a knife was shot once (and unfortunately killed) as he charged a police officer. A local activist journalist tweeted out something along the lines of "Police in Philadelphia have shot an autistic boy" to fuel the already tense protests that were happening at the time. I don't remember the names or specifics unfortunately.

That was Lancaster IIRC?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/09/14/lancaster-shooting-ricardo-munoz/

Either way its incredible how the media just ran with these idiotic witness statements without taking the time to ask around for further confirmation. They nearly caused a riot if it wasn't for the quick reaction of the police department in providing us the proper info.

Oh yes, Lancaster, that's right. Had the body camera footage not been released when it was, there probably would've been a lot of unrest due to that misinformation.

[ProudModerate2]

Did the other two girls (the ones the girl with the knife was swinging at) have weapons of any kind?
I didn't see any in the confrontation.
I'm trying to understand the "self-defense" concept that some are eluding to.

[lfromnj]

Did the other two girls (the ones the girl with the knife was swinging at) have weapons of any kind?
I didn't see any in the confrontation.
I'm trying to understand the "self-defense" concept that some are eluding to.

One of the other girls was literally walking slowly in the direction of the cops before getting tacked and about to be stabbed.  

The self defense claim just came from the same person who said she dropped the knife before she got shot(she did not). Its clear there is a bunch of lies/misinformation that came from activists and people looking to make money.

Its maaybe possible the initial stuff was self defense but once the cops arrived the situation should have cooled down.

[ProudModerate2]

Did the other two girls (the ones the girl with the knife was swinging at) have weapons of any kind?
I didn't see any in the confrontation.
I'm trying to understand the "self-defense" concept that some are eluding to.

One of the other girls was literally walking slowly in the direction of the cops before getting tacked and about to be stabbed. 

OK.
But did that girl that fell to the ground. Did she have a weapon? I didn't see anything like that in the video. And why did the man start kicking the girl on the ground.
Sorry. I'm very confused on who is who, and who is on which "team."

[Badger]

Why do these always happen in the midwest?

Easily the most racist part of the country

That's some grade A projection right there.

[Woody]

That girl was just about to stab that other black girl with the pink outfit, the cop is a hero.

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Couldn’t the cop have used a taser or some other non-lethal way of subduing her?

[AGA]

As usual, the bodycam footage provides a much clearer story of what happened.

[Horus]

Why do these always happen in the midwest?

Easily the most racist part of the country

That's some grade A projection right there.

Whether the South or Midwest is more racist is not easy to measure, but the Midwest is without a doubt more segregated. Just look at demographic maps of Detroit, Chicago and Milwaukee. Columbus is an exception though, it's reasonably well integrated.

[wbrocks67]

Couldn’t the cop have used a taser or some other non-lethal way of subduing her?

MTE. This is the issue. It always results in Cops pulling out their guns. It's 2021 and we still haven't figured out other ways for Cops to stop situations without resorting to just pulling out their gun. I mean, come on.

I'll wait for all the facts to come out. Didn't the girl *call* the cops because the girls were at her house fighting? Was their a self defense situation where this girl was being threatened by these other girls that were at her house? I'd like a full account, because it seems odd that this girl would have the cops come to her house only for her to then try and stab another person.

Either way, again, a taser would've sufficed. There was no need to kill her.