Denmark has become the first European country to revoke the residency permits of Syrian refugees

[Bootes Void]

https://www.theweek.co.uk/news/world-news/europe/952533/why-denmark-is-stripping-syrians-of-residency-and-sending-them-home

Denmark has become the first European country to revoke the residency permits of Syrian refugees after claiming that the security situation in parts of the war-torn country has “improved significantly”.

Almost 200 Syrians have so far had their renewal applications rejected, while around 500 people originally from Damascus and the surrounding areas are still having their renewals reviewed.

After a decade of war, Syrian President Bashar al-Assad now controls almost all of the country, with fighting mainly confined to the north. But “one of the main reasons people rose up during the Arab spring remains”, The Guardian says: namely his secret police force.

‘I felt so foreign’
The stripping of Syrian refugees’ residency permits was catapulted into the spotlight when 19-year-old Aya Abu-Daher, from Nyborg in central Denmark, pleaded on national television earlier this month for her family to be allowed to stay.

Abu-Daher later told Deutsche Welle (DW) that she received a letter from the Danish authorities at the end of June, at which point she “sat down and just cried”. She added: “I was so sad, I felt so foreign, like everything in Denmark had been taken away from me.”

Danish immigration services first said that Syrian capital Damascus and its surrounding suburbs were safe in 2019 and have since set about “depriving Syrian refugees of their asylum status, even as Syria remains shattered”, The New York Times (NYT) reports.

[CumbrianLefty]

Disgraceful decision.

[Hnv1]

How dare they not allow indefinite stay to foreign citizens of a country no longer in civil war within?

[Omega21]

How dare they not allow indefinite stay to foreign citizens of a country no longer in civil war within?

Basically sums it up.

If everyone living under a dictatorship can qualify as a refugee, we would need to open up the border to literally billions of people.

If the civil war has died down enough for them to be sent back, however, is a valid argument.

[CumbrianLefty]

Syria is in reality still not "safe" and won't be for a while even on an optimistic scenario.

Even if you agree with this on principle, several more years surely need to elapse yet.

[ingemann]

We’re number one.

[Omega21]

Syria is in reality still not "safe" and won't be for a while even on an optimistic scenario.

Even if you agree with this on principle, several more years surely need to elapse yet.

A very sensible argument, as already noted above, although provisions need to be put in place to make sure no unintegrated refugees are able to qualify for citizenship due to the duration of stay, etc.

If they're secular, speak the language, and at least moderately educated, however, I have no problem with a path to citizenship either.

[Hnv1]

Syria is in reality still not "safe" and won't be for a while even on an optimistic scenario.

Even if you agree with this on principle, several more years surely need to elapse yet.

So in several years time they all have families and can't leave because "somebody please think about the children!"

Or when is it safe enough? most of the people living on our little Earth live in states where personal security and welfare are on par with Syria atm. they can't all be eligible refugees

[Storr]

When that opt-out from the EU area of freedom, security and justice comes in handy.
(I doubt they'd be able to be the first EU country to start revoking Syrian refugee permits if they didn't have that opt-out which covers, among other things, immigration and asylum policies.)

[ingemann]

Syria is in reality still not "safe" and won't be for a while even on an optimistic scenario.

Even if you agree with this on principle, several more years surely need to elapse yet.

So in several years time they all have families and can't leave because "somebody please think about the children!"

Or when is it safe enough? most of the people living on our little Earth live in states where personal security and welfare are on par with Syria atm. they can't all be eligible refugees

What a lot of humanitarian people fail to understand, is that when a Syrian refugee arrives in Denmark, they have travelled through Turkey, Greece, Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia/Hungary, Austria and Germany without seeking asylum, they have fundamental shopped between the different countries in a attempt to find the country which fit them best and a country which they had zero connection to, the fact that we treated such people as real refugees have watered out the refugee concept to near meaninglessness.

Of course the fact that the media also try to manipulate us by finding these tearjerking stories and sell the message hard, yes they find some girl in high school, they don't mention what the rest of her family are doing, likely because it wouldn't sell the message. When they fail to convince people in Denmark, they run to international media again and again, because they see it as a tool to put pressure on the Danish government, of course it have just lead the Danish government to ignore international media and made the Danish attitude harder on the issue.

[Horus]

Best left wing party in the world.

[parochial boy]

Fwiw, there are around 37'000 refugees hosted by Denmark at the moment, According to the World Bank. Or about 6 refugees per 1000 inhabitants

Comparing other comparably wealthy European countries:

Netherlands - 6 per 1000
Belgium - 6 per 1000
France - 6 per 1000
Greece - 8 per 1000
Norway - 10 per 1000
Switzerland - 13 per 1000
Germany - 14 per 1000
Austria - 15 per 1000
Sweden - 25 per 1000

So obviously Denmark has, you know, really been the victim of a completely unfair demands and an outrageous share of the burden in terms of what needs to be done to deal with the humanitarian crisis on our border.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

Populists: "I don't hate immigrants and refugees; I just have ~concerns~ about integration. They can stay as long as they integrate, learn the language, get jobs, and learn and respect the local customs"

Refugees/Immigrants: *integrate despite the constant roadblocks being put in their path by politicians performatively being TOUGH ON IMMIGRANTS to win votes and scapegoat others for domestic issues they are unable or unwilling to solve*

Populists: "Haha just kidding! Send them back anyways"

[ingemann]

Fwiw, there are around 37'000 refugees hosted by Denmark at the moment, According to the World Bank. Or about 6 refugees per 1000 inhabitants

Comparing other comparably wealthy European countries:

Netherlands - 6 per 1000
Belgium - 6 per 1000
France - 6 per 1000
Greece - 8 per 1000
Norway - 10 per 1000
Switzerland - 13 per 1000
Germany - 14 per 1000
Austria - 15 per 1000
Sweden - 25 per 1000

So obviously Denmark has, you know, really been the victim of a completely unfair demands and an outrageous share of the burden in terms of what needs to be done to deal with the humanitarian crisis on our border.

We sully support other EU's countries right to do the same thing as us, in fact we think it would be a great idea, also far more than 37.000 people who lives in Denmark have arrived as refugees but honestly whether Denmark takes in more or less refugees than a few select countries doesn't really matter, we shouldn't let anyone into the country (unless we're forced to because they're our citizens) who makes the country worse.

[ingemann]

Populists: "I don't hate immigrants and refugees; I just have ~concerns~ about integration. They can stay as long as they integrate, learn the language, get jobs, and learn and respect the local customs"

Refugees/Immigrants: *integrate despite the constant roadblocks being put in their path by politicians performatively being TOUGH ON IMMIGRANTS to win votes and scapegoat others for domestic issues they are unable or unwilling to solve*

Populists: "Haha just kidding! Send them back anyways"

Just because you and your ilk want to make all of Europe into a neoliberal hellscape doesn't mean the population will accept it lying down.

[Frozen Sky Ever Why]

Populists: "I don't hate immigrants and refugees; I just have ~concerns~ about integration. They can stay as long as they integrate, learn the language, get jobs, and learn and respect the local customs"

Refugees/Immigrants: *integrate despite the constant roadblocks being put in their path by politicians performatively being TOUGH ON IMMIGRANTS to win votes and scapegoat others for domestic issues they are unable or unwilling to solve*

Populists: "Haha just kidding! Send them back anyways"

My only concern with immigrants is crime.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

Populists: "I don't hate immigrants and refugees; I just have ~concerns~ about integration. They can stay as long as they integrate, learn the language, get jobs, and learn and respect the local customs"

Refugees/Immigrants: *integrate despite the constant roadblocks being put in their path by politicians performatively being TOUGH ON IMMIGRANTS to win votes and scapegoat others for domestic issues they are unable or unwilling to solve*

Populists: "Haha just kidding! Send them back anyways"

Just because you and your ilk want to make all of Europe into a neoliberal hellscape doesn't mean the population will accept it lying down.

Why do you think I'm a neoliberal? Immigrants getting jobs and becoming part of a new country is "neoliberalism" now?

[ingemann]

Populists: "I don't hate immigrants and refugees; I just have ~concerns~ about integration. They can stay as long as they integrate, learn the language, get jobs, and learn and respect the local customs"

Refugees/Immigrants: *integrate despite the constant roadblocks being put in their path by politicians performatively being TOUGH ON IMMIGRANTS to win votes and scapegoat others for domestic issues they are unable or unwilling to solve*

Populists: "Haha just kidding! Send them back anyways"

Just because you and your ilk want to make all of Europe into a neoliberal hellscape doesn't mean the population will accept it lying down.

Why do you think I'm a neoliberal? Immigrants getting jobs and becoming part of a new country is "neoliberalism" now?

I don't really see a difference between neoliberals pretending to be left and open neoliberals, if you support free immigration you're a neoliberal.

Also they don't get jobs, they do worse than all other groups except Somalis and Palestinians with less than 40% in job or under education. They're just a economic burden (only made worse by their high crime rate) and don't give anything back, and that's the Syrians who had the money and resources to travel several thousand kilometers.

[jaymichaud]

Based Mette?

[parochial boy]

I'm kind of a bit bemused by the fact of accusing pro-immigration sentiment being followed in the very next paragraph by judgement on Syrian refugees made on the basis of what they may "contribute" or not.

It may surprise you, but most support for refugees during the crisis was motivated by a sense of empathy with the rather horrific plight that they were facing; not some desire to flood Europe with the cheap labour that the refugees are apparently not even doing anyway.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

Just because you and your ilk want to make all of Europe into a neoliberal hellscape doesn't mean the population will accept it lying down.

Why do you think I'm a neoliberal? Immigrants getting jobs and becoming part of a new country is "neoliberalism" now?

I don't really see a difference between neoliberals pretending to be left and open neoliberals, if you support free immigration you're a neoliberal.

Sorry, what does "free immigration" mean here, exactly? Does accepting a few thousand refugees now constitute "free immigration"?

I'm actually okay with most European countries cutting the number of refugees they took in after 2014-2016, but please do continue to tell me about my political views. Apparently being decently leftwing on economic issues is now totally outweighed by having even the smallest degree compassion for refugees. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It's hard to engage with you in a meaningful way when all you do is speak in broad platitudes and ascribe the absolute worst intentions to everyone else, as you did in our previous encounter.

Also they don't get jobs, they do worse than all other groups except Somalis and Palestinians with less than 40% in job or under education. They're just a economic burden (only made worse by their high crime rate) and don't give anything back, and that's the Syrians who had the money and resources to travel several thousand kilometers.

Curious: do you know what it's like to be an immigrant or refugee? Because it isn't easy. And I'm not talking about moving to another EU country. Because I do know, both from family who were immigrants and refugees as well as personally being an immigrant myself. I would bet most of these people would have happily stayed back home if there was no war. But now the country is in ruins and Assad's regime is imprisoning, torturing, and killing people who go back. Economic burden or not, I don't see any justification for sending people back to a totally collapsed society with a high risk of death. It's interesting when immigrants and refugees do find jobs, that you then immediately dismiss it as a sob story by the media, who are conspiring to destroy Europe or whatever.

I have worked with refugees in both Sweden and the United States, and most of them are indeed learning the language and trying to find jobs, but are immediately dismissed and turned away. I have also met many other immigrants in the Nordics who are Europeans (y'know, the Westerners that are so desired), for example from Germany or Italy or the UK, who express bewilderment at the closed nature of many Nordic societies compared to other Western European countries they have lived in, whether it's finding a job or even just making friends. Personally, I find it amusing that many companies complain that they can't find workers but then turn away anyone who makes a simple mistake in an interview, including well-educated foreigners who come to university here. So clearly it's not always just a Western vs. non-Western issue, even if non-Westerners perform the worst.

Integration is a two-way street: yes, newcomers should learn the language and adapt to the local culture. At the same time, if you want them to integrate properly, then that also means giving them a chance and understanding that culture is something that is taught over time. Constantly treating people as suspect from the get-go really doesn't help the cause; it often leads to exactly the alienation we want to avoid.

EDIT - actually after looking at your posting history, you and I agree far more often than not on economic and some cultural issues. By far our biggest disagreement is about immigration and refugees, along with your deep suspicion of Muslims, so I am quite baffled by the "neoliberal" charge and the reference to my "ilk", whoever they may be.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

I'm kind of a bit bemused by the fact of accusing pro-immigration sentiment being followed in the very next paragraph by judgement on Syrian refugees made on the basis of what they may "contribute" or not.

It may surprise you, but most support for refugees during the crisis was motivated by a sense of empathy with the rather horrific plight that they were facing; not some desire to flood Europe with the cheap labour that the refugees are apparently not even doing anyway.

But Denmark claims that they're no longer facing horrific plight, because "Damascus is safe now" and therefore the economic reasoning for revocation (not prolonging?) of temporary permits is not so implausible. It's presumably one of the reasons, why they are temporary in first place.

[ingemann]

I'm kind of a bit bemused by the fact of accusing pro-immigration sentiment being followed in the very next paragraph by judgement on Syrian refugees made on the basis of what they may "contribute" or not.

It may surprise you, but most support for refugees during the crisis was motivated by a sense of empathy with the rather horrific plight that they were facing; not some desire to flood Europe with the cheap labour that the refugees are apparently not even doing anyway.

As the cost of refugees are collectivized, big business and their lapdogs doesn't give a sh**t about the cost for state, the Syrians may be a net loss for state but for corporations they're not a net loss.

I'm sure that a lot you people who only suffer minimal effect of these people coming to your countries, you could embrace empathy. The reason Denmark have taken a harder line is pretty simple, in the 90ties the Social Democratic government made sure that new refugees wasn't just placed in a few poorer municipalities but was spread in both rural and urban and poor and rich municipalities (with the richest munipalities doing their best to sabotage it), so that everyone could enjoy the benefit of diversity, funny enough the result of this was that a lot of people who had been open to the influx of refugees suddenly stopped being so, when they no longer ended up in social housing in a few poor suburban municipalities, but they instead had to enjoy the increased diversity. Luckily my municipality was one of the winner in this, as it was one of the poorer ones with a lot of social housing.

[Clarko95 📚💰📈]

As the cost of refugees are collectivized, big business and their lapdogs doesn't give a sh**t about the cost for state, the Syrians may be a net loss for state but for corporations they're not a net loss.

I'm sure that a lot you people who only suffer minimal effect of these people coming to your countries, you could embrace empathy. The reason Denmark have taken a harder line is pretty simple, in the 90ties the Social Democratic government made sure that new refugees wasn't just placed in a few poorer municipalities but was spread in both rural and urban and poor and rich municipalities (with the richest munipalities doing their best to sabotage it), so that everyone could enjoy the benefit of diversity, funny enough the result of this was that a lot of people who had been open to the influx of refugees suddenly stopped being so, when they no longer ended up in social housing in a few poor suburban municipalities, but they instead had to enjoy the increased diversity. Luckily my municipality was one of the winner in this, as it was one of the poorer ones with a lot of social housing.

See, this gets at the crux of the issue: you seem to assume that everyone who has compassion is either:

1. some kind of bleeding heart liberal elitist who wants to shove the problem onto everyone else as long as it makes them feel good and doesn't have to deal with the consequences

or

2. some evil neoliberal/corporation who wants to flood the labor market and drive down wages and oppress the working class

Both could not be further from the truth for large swathes of people who have compassion for refugees. Parochialboy is the descendent of immigrants, and I am the descendent of refugees and an immigrant, and am an immigrant myself who lives in an immigrant-heavy neighborhood and who grew up with lots of Muslims and Middle Easterners.

This isn't some intellectual or moral feel-good exercise for us. I am sorry that some people in your country have been/are more cynical and self-interested, and that you feel that you have been harmed by them, but it would be nice if you could engage with us and our actual beliefs and backgrounds which have been openly stated many times before rather than constantly assigning everyone malicious intent.

[NYDem]

Populists: "I don't hate immigrants and refugees; I just have ~concerns~ about integration. They can stay as long as they integrate, learn the language, get jobs, and learn and respect the local customs"

Refugees/Immigrants: *integrate despite the constant roadblocks being put in their path by politicians performatively being TOUGH ON IMMIGRANTS to win votes and scapegoat others for domestic issues they are unable or unwilling to solve*

Populists: "Haha just kidding! Send them back anyways"

Just because you and your ilk want to make all of Europe into a neoliberal hellscape doesn't mean the population will accept it lying down.

Why do you think I'm a neoliberal? Immigrants getting jobs and becoming part of a new country is "neoliberalism" now?

"Neoliberalism" is whatever the person saying it doesn't like, and the more they don't like it the more neoliberaler it is.