Opinion of Anarchism?
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Question: Opinion of Anarchism?
#1
Strongly favorable
 
#2
Moderately favorable
 
#3
Slightly favorable
 
#4
Neutral
 
#5
Slightly unfavorable
 
#6
Moderately unfavorable
 
#7
Strongly unfavorable
 
#8
Mixed
 
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Total Voters: 46

Author Topic: Opinion of Anarchism?  (Read 871 times)
Biden his time
Abdullah
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« on: April 19, 2021, 02:55:32 PM »

Definitions of Anarchism

"Belief in the abolition of all government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion."  ~Oxford Languages



"A political philosophy and movement that is sceptical of authority and rejects all involuntary, coercive forms of hierarchy. Anarchism calls for the abolition of the state, which it holds to be undesirable, unnecessary, and harmful."  ~Wikipedia



"A political theory holding all forms of governmental authority to be unnecessary and undesirable and advocating a society based on voluntary cooperation and free association of individuals and groups."  ~Merriam-Webster



IDK if we have any anarchists on this forum or not but I'd like to hear a justification of their beliefs or how they believe this could possibly happen. It does not sound feasible at all to me and I chose "Strongly Unfavorable" for many reasons. I don't think I'll ever be an anarchist.
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Ferguson97
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« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2021, 04:04:12 PM »

Strongly opposed.
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HisGrace
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« Reply #2 on: April 19, 2021, 04:08:10 PM »

Sympathetic to anarcho-capitalism although pragmatically it is very unworkable. Left wing anarchism sucks, somehow they manage to have even more rules than a society with a government which defeats the whole purpose.

Slightly unfavorable to right wing anarchism and very unfavorable to left wing anarchism evens out to moderately unfavorable.
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Big Abraham
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« Reply #3 on: April 19, 2021, 04:37:53 PM »

I've dabbled in anarcho-syndicalism at various points, but it strikes me as, like orthodox communist theory, a very untenable philosophy, especially at the current juncture of historical progress where neoliberal-style capitalist development has entrenched every facet of life in every nation the world over, and seems to be moving more in more in the direction of technocratic authoritarianism, and the global working masses seem either idly placated or downright subservient to the current established economic order.

During the last three decades social movements have attempted - painfully unsuccessfully - to re-establish so-called "modern ethics" and re-affirm the values that were the foundations of Western, liberal civilization: namely, democracy, job security, respect of law, etc. The neoliberal wave, taking advantage of the lifestyle now based around technology, was transforming cultural and political rule, while the Left has been relegated to defend the established political institutions of the past, thereby losing their identity and their character.

In short, the worker's movement is dead, the Reaganites won, and resistance is over. Market absolutism will not be defeated and genuine democracy never re-instated. Now, as appalling as this fact may be, it is somewhat comforting. This is not to say we join the ranks of capital, but rather we can focus on determining what will be the game to come, and dispensing with the traditional left/Chomskyan utopian response of "well, we just have to have a near-universal revolution in our intellect and consciousness, etc."
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AGA
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« Reply #4 on: April 19, 2021, 04:45:19 PM »

Meme-tier ideology.
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LAKISYLVANIA
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« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2021, 04:46:46 PM »

Slightly favorable. Good intentions, unworkable in practice. And even if it would work out, the world would evolve into a world similar to that depicted in The Purge, but not one day, but all-time.
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parochial boy
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« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2021, 04:56:01 PM »

In theory it seems like the most honest form of leftism, in so far as in order to have genuine equality you would need to have a society without any form of hierarchy. Although in a society as complex as ours it seems, well, basically impossible, unless you try and argue that primitive-communism, assuming it ever really existed, is something we would want to live under. Which is, well, doubtful to be honest.

A right-wing or capitalist anarchism is pretty much impossible to even conceive of, seeing as the entire structure is premised on the existence of hierarchy and the idea that some people will be able to wield power over others.
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PSOL
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« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2021, 05:36:56 PM »

Failed to actually deliver on successful examples across the world; Anarchist methods failed in the Balkans, Mexico, and as recently as NYC in 2011. It’s total rejection of utilizing not just the state apparatus of elections, but of organization in general meant that it would never succeed in providing an anarchist society past small insurgent zones. Attempting to smash the current state only to replace it with a non!state is foolish when one thinks about it.

While the orthodox Marxist-Leninist movement is now greatly diminished and in such a disheveled shape since the 90s, self-proclaimed anarchists are nowhere to be found in contemporary struggles unlike the former, relegated to a misnomer for social Democrats to appear to be edgy and as aging zine editors who were too up in the indie and alternative folk scene in the 90s. In the resurgent left, wherever it may be found; groups and elements within them like MAS, PCCh, and even the DSA take more inspiration from Marx than from Bakunin and Kropotkin.
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20RP12
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« Reply #8 on: April 19, 2021, 06:43:44 PM »

I think mostly well intentioned but it is basically the leftist teenager’s equivalent to libertarianism; it’s the ideology you develop when you realize things are broken and you don’t really understand how life works in reality.
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John Dule
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« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2021, 07:19:53 PM »

Anarchy is the worst form of authoritarianism.
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Statilius the Epicurean
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« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2021, 07:49:48 PM »

https://www.jofreeman.com/joreen/tyranny.htm
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GeneralMacArthur
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« Reply #11 on: April 19, 2021, 11:50:48 PM »

Based on my experience with CHAZ, "anarchy" is basically tearing down all of the rules and institutions that constitute civilized society, pretending for a brief moment in time that you can exist without them, and then slowly realizing that there were reasons for all those rules and institutions existing in the first place, and adding them back one-by-one but with anarchist branding.
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Blue3
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« Reply #12 on: April 20, 2021, 01:03:43 AM »

Ideal... but need technology to catch-up and make it practical.
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Biden his time
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« Reply #13 on: April 20, 2021, 10:22:31 AM »

Ideal... but need technology to catch-up and make it practical.

Could you elaborate?
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PSOL
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« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2021, 12:26:12 AM »

Ideal... but need technology to catch-up and make it practical.
Ah, I’m surprised I haven’t seen the technology meme more often here

Based on my experience with CHAZ, "anarchy" is basically tearing down all of the rules and institutions that constitute civilized society, pretending for a brief moment in time that you can exist without them, and then slowly realizing that there were reasons for all those rules and institutions existing in the first place, and adding them back one-by-one but with anarchist branding.
Lifestylism are endemic among Anarchism—but even “serious” people like Zerzan, Bookchin, and CrimethInc. are nothing but fools if looked at critically. Most people in Food Not Bombs and the IWW are too, especially those not part of the main struggle who are less weird about it.

Anarchism made sense in the oppressive environment of Capitalist global expansion from the 1800s to 1905, but as conditions change and more strategies have opened up, and now when things are getting closed fast, it’s failures became more apparent and Marx was proved right yet again.

Left libertarianism is a meme which is not even relevant anymore. It’s no wonder so many became quasi-social democrats, some Marxists, and standard liberals. Even the IWW and the Green Party ecosocialists have became more pragmatic* in the US, where the meme still has life

*the IWW is technically still Ancoms adhering to democratic centralism, which has led them to be activist oriented, but still anarchism hasn’t been actively discussed and pushed in all branches out loud. Green Party people though are just counterculture people who think calling themselves social democrats is uncool.
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Velasco
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« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2021, 04:54:58 AM »
« Edited: April 22, 2021, 05:01:11 AM by Velasco »

Even though I'm not for the abolition the state, I think there's nothing wrong in being sceptical about the concept of authority and favour cooperation in all orders of life.  I mean, you don't need to adhere completely to anarchism in order to see positive aspects in that ideology.  I would say implementing the anarchist society is somewhat utopian or unrealistic, but anyway I'm surprised by the level of rejection towards an ideology based on utopian ideals.

I have a moderately favourable opinion of anarcho-communism personally. On the opposite side I reject completely anarcho-capitalism, for that ideology advocates selfishness over cooperation.
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Biden his time
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« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2021, 05:16:59 AM »
« Edited: April 22, 2021, 09:25:37 AM by Abdullah »

Even though I'm not for the abolition the state, I think there's nothing wrong in being sceptical about the concept of authority and favour cooperation in all orders of life.  I mean, you don't need to adhere completely to anarchism in order to see positive aspects in that ideology.  I would say implementing the anarchist society is somewhat utopian or unrealistic, but anyway I'm surprised by the level of rejection towards an ideology based on utopian ideals.

I think it makes a lot of sense, and for the same reasons that communism has never been very globally popular.

First of all, there are a lot of people who don't agree with the principle themselves. For starters, I'd reckon a solid majority of people on Earth wish for there to be some type of law enforcement around (at least to prevent stuff like murder and rape). In an anarchist society, you could just get murdered and everyone around you shrugs and goes, "oh well, guess he didn't lock his doors that day". You're never gonna face justice on this Earth without some vigilante justice type of thing, which can turn ugly really quick under the wrong circumstances (unless I'm brutally misunderstanding anarchy). It'd be the purge every day, and this is only good for psychopaths and masochists.

Secondly, this society's utopia-ness makes them unattainable on Earth by definition, so any attempts that are made to try to establish one are not gonna be utopia-like in the slightest (same way Real Communism hasn't been tried because it isn't attainable). What do these anarchists think are gonna happen after they all get their non-state? Do they think people aren't gonna just band together into smaller separate groups and form governments again by default? If they do, I disagree with them and think that's exactly what's gonna happen.



I do agree that being sceptical of authority is good, though.



I have a moderately favourable opinion of anarcho-communism personally. On the opposite side I reject completely anarcho-capitalism, for that ideology advocates selfishness over cooperation.

Once again I agree with you completely. Imagine "anarcho-capitalism" in real life. All the people are excited at first, but within a few years there's a business oligarchy who have their own guards and crap while everyone else can barely fend for themselves (also completely defeating the purpose of anarchy because there is an oligarchy). Angry  Angry  Angry

There has to be at the very least a little regulation for capitalism to work properly and not devolve into madness, even hardcore Libertarians probably know this.
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SevenEleven
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« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2021, 05:36:56 AM »

Slightly favorable. Good intentions, unworkable in practice. And even if it would work out, the world would evolve into a world similar to that depicted in The Purge, but not one day, but all-time.

Oh.
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Velasco
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« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2021, 06:06:22 AM »
« Edited: April 22, 2021, 06:11:40 AM by Velasco »


For starters, I'd reckon a solid majority of people on Earth wish for there to be some type of law enforcement around (at least to prevent stuff like murder and rape). In an anarchist society, you could just get murdered and everyone around you shrugs and goes, "oh well, guess he didn't lock his doors that day". You're never gonna face justice on this Earth without some vigilante justice type of thing, which can turn ugly really quick under the wrong circumstances (unless I'm brutally misunderstanding anarchy). It'd be the purge every day, and this is only good for psychopaths and masochists.

I'm afraid you are nusunderstanding the concept of anarchist society, which does not incorporate the notion of giving free hand to criminals. Possibly it sounds unrealistic for many, but in the anarchist cooperative utopia the whole society would watch over its security, making repressive police  or military corps unnecessary. You may think that's unfeasible, but in no way anarchism advocates freedom to commit crimes.

Quote
What do these anarchists think are gonna happen after they all get their non-state? Do they think people aren't gonna just band together into smaller separate groups and form governments again by default? If they do, I disagree with them and think that's exactly what's gonna happen.

I don't know, but I think it's interesting the concept of a society organized on a cooperative basis, less hierarchical and more decentralized. I'm in the opinion that "acting locally and thinking globally" is a good thing. However, in order to coordinate the actions of the small groups, I find hard hard to imagine ways of organization that don't imply the establishment of some form of government. Anyway I would be happy with a global and highly decentralized government acting as a coordination body in replacement of tightly authoritarian and repressive nation-states, at least in theory.
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vitoNova
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« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2021, 07:28:48 AM »

Seems like an ideology one would adopt if they wanted to piss off their parents. 

Kinda like listening to death metal. 
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MarkD
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« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2021, 09:54:03 AM »

Strongly unfavorable, of course. It's just the law of the jungle.
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Blue3
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« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2021, 10:51:34 PM »
« Edited: April 25, 2021, 11:15:25 PM by Blue3 »

Ideal... but need technology to catch-up and make it practical.

Could you elaborate?

It's not practical, realistically-speaking, at our current technological level.

But imagine technology that could enable any and every household to be self-sustaining and exist "off the grid" -- with regard to water, electricity, heating, internet/phone, etc. But also smart houses and smart clothes to monitor your health and safety, to be your own automated doctor, virtual tutor, virtual secretary, and private security system. Indoor greenhouse aeroponics for most food. A super-efficient drone delivery system for food/supplies/medicine that can't be built by 3D printers or otherwise fabricated at the house, and a version of automated Uber for personal transportation. Technology that would make it virtually impossible to ever murder, assault, steal from, vandalize, or trespass upon anyone else. After several years of this working, governments and even corporations slowly dwindling down as it's just no longer needed except for things like defense/diplomacy/homelandsecurity, currency, park/monument/museum maintenance, space exploration/colonization, zoning & housing construction. Eventually even those functions becoming more and more automated and centered on households, ironclad programming that prevents anyone from making WMDs or otherwise posing a security threat to others, advanced formulas to determine if something should be a housing zone and have drones build houses in it or a park, etc. Advances in abundant clean energy such as space-based solar power satellites, improved mega-batteries, room-temperature superconductors, mass graphene manufacturing, advanced nanotech, asteroid mining, AI improvements, etc. Eventually all currency is no longer needed to be government-backed, and most labor is voluntary, based on what people want to do, a lot of it creative or about human connections or just fun. Then eventually all remaining government deemed no longer necessary and abolished.
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