L.C. 10.19 - Third Lincoln Constitution

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This should be ruled frivolous.

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This should be ruled frivolous.

As far as I can tell, the Council Rules do not give me any such power.

That should change like yesterday. Yet another reason for reform.

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Wait why the four month legislature? That’s longer than a House term!

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Wait why the four month legislature? That’s longer than a House term!

Longer terms allow for the session to be more productive

That makes no sense whatsoever.

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As for the length of terms, shorter terms make more sense at the regional levels because regional legislatures are primarily dominated by younger players and this have more turnover. Such a large term would lead to a lot of specials due to the fact like half of new players vacate their seats after a month or so.

Also you people move way too fast on amendments, especially for something so important and I think that reflects poorly on the Speaker. Rushing through legislation leads to sloppily done and poorly thought out legislation.

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Wait why the four month legislature? That’s longer than a House term!

Regional Terms being longer than Federal House terms seems to be the usual practice. Per: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=301334.msg7865550#msg7865550

House: 2 Months
Fremont: 3 Months
South: 3 Months
Lincoln (under current constitution): 3 months

Yeah I worded that poorly. Should have said as long as a Senate term.

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Honestly I agree with AGA earlier in this thread regarding why off-month elections aka 3 month terms are bad but that’s not for me to decide. The real answer here is a principle non-binding vote.

Also think twice before falling in love with 7 person legislators. Historically they aren’t any more efficient than 5 person ones.

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Wait why the four month legislature? That’s longer than a House term!

Longer terms allow for the session to be more productive

That makes no sense whatsoever.

It allows for the legislature to get more done in a session, and no region has 2 month terms anyways, so are Fremont and the South wrong for having longer terms than the House?

Yes, Fremont and the South have it wrong.

Why does getting more done in a session matter though if there are twice as many sessions in a calendar year?

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Wait why the four month legislature? That’s longer than a House term!

Longer terms allow for the session to be more productive

That makes no sense whatsoever.

It allows for the legislature to get more done in a session, and no region has 2 month terms anyways, so are Fremont and the South wrong for having longer terms than the House?

Yes, Fremont and the South have it wrong.

Why does getting more done in a session matter though if there are twice as many sessions in a calendar year?

I really don't understand the need for frequent elections, 3 months or 4 months is fine.

I mean we have regional Senate elections every 2 months so unless you want to change that, I don’t see the problem here.

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Also think twice before falling in love with 7 person legislators. Historically they aren’t any more efficient than 5 person ones.

The 7 person thing only applies when you have 9+ on ballot candidates, just like the present. I don't think it's wise to change that, particularly given the current level of interest in the office (10 candidates + an 11th who was willing to run if needed), for this election. When the number of candidates is below 9, it goes down to 5.

Also - on senate - bit different with 2 months there because only half the chamber is up at one time.

Yeah that’s true regarding the 7 member thing but don’t assume bigger is better is my general point.

The Senate being different due to half of it being up at a time has nothing to do with what I said. S019 said two months is too frequent which makes little sense because the voting booth is open every 2 months anyway due to a Senate election.

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Lots of people in this game are anti-gun. They don’t start discussions on the IRL 2nd amendment which just for cultural reasons merits of its existence aside is going to be a hot issue just because they don’t like the return of presidentialism or the strengthening of executive power. This is the short of sh**t I would have expected from the Federalists in the aftermath of June 2019, not to derail the efforts of a new constitution proposed by the governor of your own party that you happen to disagree with.

As for the seven versus five member debate, all I’m saying is seven is no more efficient than five. If you think 7 is reasonable when there’s literally 9 candidates because it wouldn’t be a good idea to deny 4 candidates a chance to win elected office, that’s a fair point. I’m not sure what else is here to discuss other than remind you the dangerous of excessive offices can create in the long run that Adam and others have warned about in the leadup to June 2019 as well as during Rimjob.

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My suggestion would be to just make the constitution and government structure as simple as possible since that will allow Lincoln to be able to focus on having fair passionate fights over all sorts of ideological issues that this region has been known for years.

Either a 4 month governor term with 2 month legislative terms or having both at 3 months would work. I feel like 4 and 2 would be a better arrangement for Lincoln due to its history and culture being prone to wild shifts and the elections are what makes the history in a way the South and Fremont aren't  (since the South has always had a more conservative natural bent while Fremont is more consistently progressive dominated without much opposition). I feel like this spirit should be embraced as the core character of the region as I have written in detail about on the wiki page. https://talkelections.org/AFEWIKI/index.php?title=Lincoln#History

As for legislature size, I think 5 and 7 is a standard that works fine.

2 months is way too frequent. 3 or 4 is fine.

House elections are every 2 months, and that works well in this game.

I mean a majority of the chamber is opposed to 2 months, so just like I did on the gun issue, you should frankly move on, I don't know how to put it any nicer, but it is annoying to have people spamming "2 months" in this thread, when it was voted down. 3 seems like where we'll end up, and the current off-year system has worked well. Also longer terms allow for legislators to get more done in office, and that would be better than like 2 weeks out of an 8 week term spent campaigning, that is 25% of the time in office that legislators are forced to campaign and not able to focus on making lives better for their constituents. 25% of an office's term being spent mostly campaigning would be frankly absurd, and unlike the House we don't have the 2-3 week lame duck period.

Brother Jonathan and IBNU didn't vote on term length, so you don't even have a mandate to tell me to "move on."

Yeah, I think this only failed because of all the confusion with so many amendments proposed and that’s at least somewhat on the speaker.

Also who actually spends 2 weeks actually campaigning in this game except for presidential races and Senate races to the point where serving in the legislature becomes particularly time consuming? In fact I’d be surprised if more than a third of all Labor members who have ever sent a campaign PM while serving in the regional legislature unless they were a veteran player who returned to the low levels and was always involved in GOTV or something (I fall in this category).

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Wouldn't it make the most sense to go back to the old Lincoln assembly procedures?

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Wouldn't it make the most sense to go back to the old Lincoln assembly procedures?

If you mean regarding the SOAP, not really as those rules were written three years ago and probably need an overhaul anyways.

Do they? If it worked then (at least when followed), why wouldn’t it work now?

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I will note that general policy has been if the vacancy occurs on Thursday or Wednesday that said election is held the following week. Two days is not sufficient time to prepare for an election. I am not formally objecting to give the sponsor a chance to address these concerns

Finally something that I can agree with.

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Fun fact: this is the most debated bill in the history of the regional government board.

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This is fhtagn tier obstruction. Luckily this is only one member.

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Congratulations Lincoln!