L.C. 10.19 - Third Lincoln Constitution

[YE]

This should be ruled frivolous.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

This should be ruled frivolous.

As far as I can tell, the Council Rules do not give me any such power.

[YE]

This should be ruled frivolous.

As far as I can tell, the Council Rules do not give me any such power.

That should change like yesterday. Yet another reason for reform.

[S019]

Also this amendment would protect our AWB from malignant attempts by future councils to repeal it, which would lead to a surge in mass shootings, I believe supporting this amendment is the only reasonable course of action.

In fact, this whole conversation reminds me of a conversation on Discord where someone rightly pointed out IRL American laws are way to lax and people promptly noted that results from the absurd idea that the right to own a killer weapon is legal. Such an idea is absurd in basically any other developed country.

Also I fail to see why this so controversial, all it does is make clear that the Council has the right to regulate gun ownership, protecting people from mass shootings shouldn't be controversial.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Also this amendment would protect our AWB from malignant attempts by future councils to repeal it, which would lead to a surge in mass shootings, I believe supporting this amendment is the only reasonable course of action.

In fact, this whole conversation reminds me of a conversation on Discord where someone rightly pointed out IRL American laws are way to lax and people promptly noted that results from the absurd idea that the right to own a killer weapon is legal. Such an idea is absurd in basically any other developed country.

Also I fail to see why this so controversial, all it does is make clear that the Council has the right to regulate gun ownership, protecting people from mass shootings shouldn't be controversial.

This is hard for me because I totally would support you if this was a straight vote on guns. But I have to consider the larger proposal at hand. Given that Labor support for a new constitution may not be near unanimous, some centrist/conservative support is needed. Therefore a reconfiguring of the Atlasian equivalent of the second amendment shall have to wait for another day. Ensuring the new constitution has the votes to pass, here and at referendum, is more important.

[S019]

Also this amendment would protect our AWB from malignant attempts by future councils to repeal it, which would lead to a surge in mass shootings, I believe supporting this amendment is the only reasonable course of action.

In fact, this whole conversation reminds me of a conversation on Discord where someone rightly pointed out IRL American laws are way to lax and people promptly noted that results from the absurd idea that the right to own a killer weapon is legal. Such an idea is absurd in basically any other developed country.

Also I fail to see why this so controversial, all it does is make clear that the Council has the right to regulate gun ownership, protecting people from mass shootings shouldn't be controversial.

This is hard for me because I totally would support you if this was a straight vote on guns. But I have to consider the larger proposal at hand. Given that Labor support for a new constitution may not be near unanimous, some centrist/conservative support is needed. Therefore a reconfiguring of the Atlasian equivalent of the second amendment shall have to wait for another day. Ensuring the new constitution has the votes to pass, here and at referendum, is more important.

Would you be open to leaving the first line as is, and just adding the second line?

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Also this amendment would protect our AWB from malignant attempts by future councils to repeal it, which would lead to a surge in mass shootings, I believe supporting this amendment is the only reasonable course of action.

In fact, this whole conversation reminds me of a conversation on Discord where someone rightly pointed out IRL American laws are way to lax and people promptly noted that results from the absurd idea that the right to own a killer weapon is legal. Such an idea is absurd in basically any other developed country.

Also I fail to see why this so controversial, all it does is make clear that the Council has the right to regulate gun ownership, protecting people from mass shootings shouldn't be controversial.

This is hard for me because I totally would support you if this was a straight vote on guns. But I have to consider the larger proposal at hand. Given that Labor support for a new constitution may not be near unanimous, some centrist/conservative support is needed. Therefore a reconfiguring of the Atlasian equivalent of the second amendment shall have to wait for another day. Ensuring the new constitution has the votes to pass, here and at referendum, is more important.

Would you be open to leaving the first line as is, and just adding the second line?

I believe it is best to vote down the amendment and leave the matter for another day.

[KaiserDave]

This is a poison pill, get it out.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

nay, i'm against putting such ordinary legislation into the counstition.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

nay, i'm against putting such ordinary legislation into the counstition.

We're still voting on the last amendment regarding election timing at this stage.

[AGA]

Objection to this amendment:

2. The Chamber shall consist of five members, except when there are 9 or more candidates on the ballot in a regular election, in which case it shall be 7, or if there are less than 5 candidates running, in which case the number of candidates shall be one less than those contesting the election chosen every second month by the eligible voters of Lincoln, according to a method of proportional representation prescribed by law.

I would prefer the number of members be equal to, not less than, the number of candidates when there are less than five candidates. The Chamber shouldn't be too small, and if it's okay for everyone to win in a five-candidate election, why not the same for a four-candidate election?

[KaiserDave]

This would be solved by a fixed 5 member legislature, but I understand that's not very popular

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

The change to 4 month elections passes on a 3-2 vote.

[KaiserDave]

I'm not a fan of four month elections at all, but if that's what the legislature wants...

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I will not support a fixed 5 member legislature.


Some more votes to start up:

Ballot:

2. The Chamber shall consist of five members, except when there are nine or more candidates on the ballot in a regular election, in which case it shall be seven, or if there are less than five candidates running, in which case the number of candidates shall be one less than those contesting the election chosen every second month by the eligible voters of Lincoln, according to a method of proportional representation prescribed by law.

[ ] Aye
[ ] No
[ ] Abstain

5. A well-regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of citizens to keep and bear non-military grade arms within reason shall not be completely infringed. No part of this clause shall be interpreted as precluding the Lincoln Chamber from passing gun control measures or other restrictions on gun ownership.

[ ] Aye
[ ] No
[ ] Abstain

[KaiserDave]

I think that first amendment has incorrect wording, so urging a no vote on both.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I will not support a fixed 5 member legislature.


Some more votes to start up:

Ballot:

2. The Chamber shall consist of five members, except when there are nine or more candidates on the ballot in a regular election, in which case it shall be seven, or if there are less than five candidates running, in which case the number of candidates shall be one less than those contesting the election chosen every second month by the eligible voters of Lincoln, according to a method of proportional representation prescribed by law.

[ X] Aye
[ ] No
[ ] Abstain

5. A well-regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of citizens to keep and bear non-military grade arms within reason shall not be completely infringed. No part of this clause shall be interpreted as precluding the Lincoln Chamber from passing gun control measures or other restrictions on gun ownership.

[ ] Aye
[X ] No
[ ] Abstain

[AGA]

No
No

[S019]

Ballot:

2. The Chamber shall consist of five members, except when there are nine or more candidates on the ballot in a regular election, in which case it shall be seven, or if there are less than five candidates running, in which case the number of candidates shall be one less than those contesting the election chosen every second month by the eligible voters of Lincoln, according to a method of proportional representation prescribed by law.

[ X ] Aye
[ ] No
[ ] Abstain

5. A well-regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of citizens to keep and bear non-military grade arms within reason shall not be completely infringed. No part of this clause shall be interpreted as precluding the Lincoln Chamber from passing gun control measures or other restrictions on gun ownership.

[ X ] Aye
[ ] No
[ ] Abstain





[/quote]

[Brother Jonathan]

Nay on the first
Nay on the second

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

The amendments that were not objected to (regarding religion and redrafting) are adopted.

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Aye on the first
Nay on the seoncd.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Switching to symbolic Aye on the second since it is failing anyways.

First Amendment (<5 candidates) passes 3-2
Second Amendment (guns) fails 2-3

[YE]

Wait why the four month legislature? That’s longer than a House term!

[S019]

Wait why the four month legislature? That’s longer than a House term!

Longer terms allow for the session to be more productive