L.C. 10.19 - Third Lincoln Constitution

[S019]

snip

So, uh, what happens if the original bill passed by less than 2/3, gets redrafted, but the legislature rejects the redraft? From the text you drafted, the bill would seem to go into some sort of limbo where no one can take any action...

I assumed that would be a hard veto, since that's what this bill creates?

Hmmm, perhaps, but the text doesn't explicitly say that the redraft is equivalent to a veto. We just had a case a few short weeks ago where the Governor proposed a redraft, and then after the Chamber rejected it, signed the original, so it's not even true that a governor redrafting would veto in all cases. While such instances may be rare, it's important we iron them out, lest this become the next lawsuit from Tack50.

Additionally your text appears to require an even greater standard than the veto override - the veto override is two thirds, while this is greater than two thirds....

Here's a version of your text I would accept, if you'd be willing to offer this instead:

If the redrafted bill is rejected by the chamber, and the original bill passed the chamber by a greater than two-thirds margin in the Chamber, the original bill shall be sent to referendum. If the redrafted bill is rejected by the Chamber, and the original bill passed by less than two-thirds, the Governor shall be compelled to sign or veto the original bill.

Returning the redraft to the Governor for their decision is in fact what the current constitution does.

sure that works, also consider this before the new amendment that I just posted.

Also while reading through it I found that this just says "elections shall occur by a form of proportional representation," it clarifies later actually, but this is confusing and should be fixed.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Okay.

No objection from me to either amendment now.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Members have 24 hours to object to any of the amendments. Members need to specify which amendment they are objecting to if they wish to object.

[AGA]

I object to the amendment making legislative elections every three months instead of two. I would rather have them coincide with federal elections so that turnout is higher.

[S019]

I object to the amendment making legislative elections every three months instead of two. I would rather have them coincide with federal elections so that turnout is higher.

In that case why not do four months, as I suggested above? But I see some value to keeping off-year elections, this is at its core an elections game, and off year elections give people something to do in what would otherwise be a quite dull month. I'm fine with either three or four honestly, two is too short.

[AGA]

I object to the amendment making legislative elections every three months instead of two. I would rather have them coincide with federal elections so that turnout is higher.

In that case why not do four months, as I suggested above? But I see some value to keeping off-year elections, this is at its core an elections game, and off year elections give people something to do in what would otherwise be a quite dull month. I'm fine with either three or four honestly, two is too short.

I would prefer that over three months, but still think two months is the best. Frequent elections help keep the legislature accountable to the voters and could increase citizen engagement.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I withdraw the amendment mentioned.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Amendment:

2. The Chamber shall consist of five members, except when there are 9 nine or more candidates on the ballot in a regular election, in which case it shall be 7 seven, chosen every second fourth month by the eligible voters of Lincoln, according to a method of proportional representation prescribed by law.
----

4. Elections for governor and Chamber shall be held in the months of April, August, and December. Elections for the Chamber shall be held in the months of February, April, June, August, October, December.

24 hours to object to this from the timing of this post.

[S019]

If my amendment did pass, would the language regarding the amount of candidates supersede the language in your amendment?

[AGA]

Objection

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

If my amendment did pass, would the language regarding the amount of candidates supersede the language in your amendment?

The two amendments are independent of each other. Mine changes "9" to "nine" and "7" to "seven", while yours adds on new language regarding smaller numbers of candidates. If both are adopted then all of those changes are made.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Amendment:

2. The Chamber shall consist of five members, except when there are 9 nine or more candidates on the ballot in a regular election, in which case it shall be 7 seven, chosen every second fourth month by the eligible voters of Lincoln, according to a method of proportional representation prescribed by law.
----

4. Elections for governor and Chamber shall be held in the months of April, August, and December. Elections for the Chamber shall be held in the months of February, April, June, August, October, December.

24 hours to object to this from the timing of this post.

Starting a vote on this.

Aye

[AGA]

Nay

[S019]

AYE

[KaiserDave]

I will support “General Court”

[Brother Jonathan]

Aye

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

General Court is good.

Also bimonthly elections are fine. Nothing wrong with that. The 3-leg 4-gov system would become very annoying very quickly under presidentialism. Was bad enough before.

What would the term for General Court member be?

I meant title of the office. 

Oh lol.

Variety of options, I guess. Could still go with "Deputies" or any other generic term like that.

Alternatively could try something like making the full title "Member of the General Court" but just referring to them individually as "Hon. [Member Name]" or "the Honorable Member" individually.

Just as long as it's not "Councilor". Or "Assembly(wo)man"/"Assemblymember" which I've always found rather clunky.

I've always been partial to just "member."

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

S019's amendment is very poorly written and riddled with ambiguities, but I would recommend striking "if it has less than two thirds support of the chamber" from the original text, or at least amending it to read "if it shall have passed the chamber with fewer than two-thirds the votes of its membership" to make it absolutely clear what "two-thirds support" means.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

S019's amendment is very poorly written and riddled with ambiguities, but I would recommend striking "if it has less than two thirds support of the chamber" from the original text, or at least amending it to read "if it shall have passed the chamber with fewer than two-thirds the votes of its membership" to make it absolutely clear what "two-thirds support" means.

Noted, this will be fixed as part of a Separate amendment to be released later tonight.

[S019]

One last amendment to the beginning parts, then I'll start looking at the main body, so to speak

A. The Lincoln Council is hereby renamed to the Lincoln Chamber of Deputies, and notwithstanding anything else in this amendment, the Councillors (who shall now be known as Deputies), along with the incumbent governor, shall serve as acting officials in their respective offices under this new constitution until the next applicable election. The Chamber of Deputies first order of business will be writing a new SOAP.

B. If any existing Lincoln laws conflict with this amendment, they are hereby amended such that they comply/agree with the amendment, with full severability if a provision would need to be removed.

C. The Lincoln Constitution is hereby amended to read as follows:

Third Lincoln Constitution

Preamble
We, the people of the states of Connecticut, Illinois, Indiana, Maine, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Providence Plantations, Wisconsin, Vermont, and the Virgin Islands, acting in accordance with the great precept that all men and women are created equal, and for the purpose of preserving the blessings of liberty for ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for Lincoln.
Bill of Rights
1. All persons born or naturalized in the Republic of Atlasia and being residents of one of the states of this region, are citizens of Lincoln, with all the rights, privileges, and responsibilities of the same. No citizen shall be denied equal protection under the law.
2. The Chamber of Deputies shall make no law abridging the freedom of speech, nor of the press, nor the right to assemble and petition for the redress of grievances.
3. The Chamber shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion, nor obstructing the freedom of worship.
4. Neither slavery, nor involuntary servitude, shall exist within this region, or in any territories under its jurisdiction.
5. A well-regulated militia being necessary for the security of a free state, the right of citizens to keep and bear non-military grade arms within reason shall not be completely infringed. No part of this clause shall be interpreted as precluding the Lincoln Chamber from passing gun control measures or other restrictions on gun ownership.
6. In all suits of criminal law, the accused shall have right to a free and fair trial by an impartial jury of their peers.
7. No person accused of any crime under the laws of this region shall be subjected to warrantless search or seizure of their homes, persons, records, or possessions; nor excessive bail; nor cruel or unusual punishment; nor compelled to bear witness against herself; nor denied right to legal counsel.
8. The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, save when in times of war or rebellion the public safety may require it.
9. The enumeration of certain rights in this Constitution shall not be construed as to deny those natural and inherent rights herein unlisted.
(Copy of Fremont, cutting the collective bargaining section)
Article I: The Legislative power
1. All legislative powers granted herein shall be vested in an Chamber.
2. The Chamber shall consist of five members, except when there are 9 or more candidates on the ballot in a regular election, in which case it shall be 7, chosen every second month by the eligible voters of Lincoln, according to a method of proportional representation prescribed by law.
3. No person shall be a member of the Chamber who is not a citizen of this region, and no person shall remain a member who is found by a vote of three-fourths of their peers to be guilty of gross negligence, high crimes, or misdemeanors.
4. The Chamber shall elect its speaker and other officers and shall have sole authority to determine its own methods of proceedings.
5. Every bill passed by the Chamber shall, before it becomes law, be submitted to the judgment of the governor. If they approve of it, they should sign it and it will become law; but if they disapprove they may veto it, and it shall be returned to the Chamber. If, after considering the objections of the governor, the Chamber should by a two-thirds vote agree to pass the same bill, it shall become law regardless of the governor's objections. If the governor shall not act to sign or veto a bill, it shall become law seven (7) days after its adoption by the Chamber. The Governor shall have the authority to submit revisions to passed legislation if it has less than two thirds support of the chamber, if they deem fit, and return it to the legislature for reconsideration.
6. Whenever a vacancy should occur in the composition of the Chamber, the governor shall appoint a replacement. Should the vacancy have occurred fewer than 336 hours before the next general election, the member thus nominated shall serve the remainder of the existing term; otherwise, they shall serve only until a new member may be elected.
7. The Chamber may, by a four-fifths vote, impeach and remove the governor for gross negligence or criminal acts; but the governor shall not be convicted without the concurrence of four-fifths of the members present, and the penalty for his conviction shall not exceed removal from office and disbarment from holding any office under this region for eighteen months.
8. In the event of a tied vote of the Chamber, the governor shall have the power to break the tie.

Article II: The Executive Power
1. The powers and duties of the executive shall be vested in the governor of Lincoln
2. The governor shall be elected every fourth month by the entire body of eligible voters. No person shall be governor who is not a citizen of Lincoln, and no elected governor shall be a member of the Chamber.
3. The governor shall have the power to carry out all acts in association with the enforcement of the laws passed under this constitution; to command the militia in times of war; to appoint the heads of such departments which may be established by law; to issue pardons and reprieves for crimes committed under the laws of this region, which shall be permanent upon their issuance, though they shall have no power to pardon themselves; to appoint, in accordance with Article V of the constitution of the Republic of Atlasia, the associate justice of the circuit court of this region; and to approve, or veto, all acts passed by the Chamber.
4. Should the governor vacate their office either by their death, removal, forfeiture, or resignation, then the speaker of the Chamber, or if there be no speaker the member with the longest continuous service, shall act as governor until a successor may be elected. The acting governor need not vacate their seat in the Chamber, but they shall have no vote in its proceedings so long as they continue to exercise the powers of the governor. If there is neither a speaker nor any members of the Chamber, then the powers and duties of the governor shall devolve upon the associate justice of the circuit court, or if there be none such officer as the president of Atlasia may appoint from among the citizens of Lincoln, until a successor may be elected.
Article III: Senators
1. Elections for the Senate of the Republic of Atlasia shall be conducted at regular intervals, in the months prescribed by the Constitution thereof.
2. Senators shall be elected by a direct vote of the people, and no person eligible to vote in elections for governor and Council shall be denied the right to vote for Senator.
3. Should a vacancy occur in the representation of this Region in the Senate, the governor shall appoint an interim senator to serve until a replacement may be elected. Special elections for the Senate shall begin on the Friday following the creation of the vacancy; but if the vacancy shall occur on a Thursday, the special election shall begin on the second Friday following the creation of the vacancy.
4. Senators who are elected in a regularly scheduled election shall take office on the first day of the next session of Congress. Senators elected in a special election shall take office immediately upon election.
Article IV: Elections
1. The right to vote in all elections and referendums called according to the provisions of this Constitution shall be exclusive to those persons being eligible to vote in elections for President of the Republic of Atlasia who have been registered to vote in one of the states of this Region for a period of at least 72 hours prior to the commencement of the election. The Chamber shall have the right to pass further residency requirements through legislation.
2. Voters shall be permitted to edit their ballots until 20 minutes after posting them in the voting booth. No voter shall edit their ballot after the official end of the voting period.
3. All elections and referendums of this region shall be administered by the governor. Whenever the governor should be unable to perform this duty, the speaker of the Chamber, or in their absence the most senior member, shall administer the election.
4. Elections for governor shall be held in the months of April, August, and December. Elections for the Chamber shall be held in the months of February, April, June, August, October, and December.
5. Candidates for governor, Chamber, and federal Senate must declare their candidacy in the appropriate thread by 2:00:00 PM, Eastern Time, on the Thursday preceding the election in order to appear on the ballot.
6. Except in the month of December, elections for governor, Chamber, and federal Senate shall begin on the penultimate Friday of the given month. In December, all elections shall begin on the second Friday of the month. Special Elections are scheduled by the Governor at any date that they deem fit. In all cases, voting shall begin at 12:00:00 AM, Eastern Time, on the appointed day and continue for 72 hours hence.
7. Following the expiration of the voting period, the election administrator shall have 24 hours to produce a tally of the votes cast and to announce the persons elected.
8. All elections shall be by single transferable vote, unless otherwise specified by law.
9. The terms of the Governor and Chamber  shall begin at 12:00:00 Eastern Time on the first Wednesday following their election. Prior to assuming office, the governor and members shall swear the following oath or equivalent: “I, [A.B.], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of [state office name] and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the constitutions of Lincoln and the Republic of Atlasia.” Any person elected to office under this constitution who shall fail to swear or affirm the aforesaid within 72 hours of the constitutional commencement of their term, shall forfeit their office.
10. All referendums on proposed amendments to this constitution and to the constitution of the Republic of Atlasia shall begin on the first Friday following their passage by the appropriate body; but if the passage shall occur on a Thursday, the referendum shall begin on the second Friday following passage. The appropriate election administrator shall open the voting booth at 12:00:00 AM, Eastern Time. Voting shall continue for 72 hours, and no vote cast more than 72 hours after the voting booth was opened shall be considered valid.
11. In all referendums, a “YES” vote shall be considered a vote in favor of passing the referendum and a “NO” vote shall be considered a vote against passing the referendum. Abstentions shall not affect the results of the referendum. In all cases, a simple majority of those voting “YES” or “NO” shall be required to pass the referendum.
Article V: Amendments
1. The Chamber shall have the power to propose amendments to this constitution by a two-thirds vote.
2. Lincoln shall ratify amendments to the constitution of the Republic of Atlasia by public referendum.

Occupying: Government Slot 7 of 12
Sponsor: Speaker Dwarven Dragon
[/quote]

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

While I agree with the sentiment of what is being proposed, I am concerned it could become a poison pill at the ballot box. Therefore I must oppose the amendment.

I'll start a vote once the current vote has concluded.

[S019]

While I agree with the sentiment of what is being proposed, I am concerned it could become a poison pill at the ballot box. Therefore I must oppose the amendment.

I'll start a vote once the current vote has concluded.

This is a common sense amendment, the ''''right'''' to bear arms has never been absolute and never should be. If some conservatives follow the perverted notion that it allows you to own military grade weapons, which has only been pushed by rabid NRA pawns, I don't view that as an issue. The left and center has enough votes in Lincoln to pass this anyways.

[Attorney General, Senator-Elect, & Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

While I agree with the sentiment of what is being proposed, I am concerned it could become a poison pill at the ballot box. Therefore I must oppose the amendment.

I'll start a vote once the current vote has concluded.

This is a common sense amendment, the ''''right'''' to bear arms has never been absolute and never should be. If some conservatives follow the perverted notion that it allows you to own military grade weapons, which has only been pushed by rabid NRA pawns, I don't view that as an issue. The left and center has enough votes in Lincoln to pass this anyways.

I think adopting the provision would mean universal opposition from conservatives and some from centrists. Given that there are Leftists who will vote against this because they support the Philadelphia Plan, regardless of its content, I do think adopting the amendment would likely guarantee failure of the Constitution at referendum - if not outright failing to get 2/3's support of the Council (See: BJ).

[KaiserDave]

While I agree with the sentiment of what is being proposed, I am concerned it could become a poison pill at the ballot box. Therefore I must oppose the amendment.

I'll start a vote once the current vote has concluded.

This is a common sense amendment, the ''''right'''' to bear arms has never been absolute and never should be. If some conservatives follow the perverted notion that it allows you to own military grade weapons, which has only been pushed by rabid NRA pawns, I don't view that as an issue. The left and center has enough votes in Lincoln to pass this anyways.

No. Just no.

[OBD]

Urge the council to vote down the amendment. A blatant and clear attempt to shoehorn a controversial issue into the Constitution to defeat it. Sad.