60% of GOP voters think election was stolen; 50% think 1/6 riot was non-violent or done by leftists

[7,052,770]

Did they? Did they consistently claim for months that Russia actually *changed vote tallies*?

Of course they didn't. Del Tachi is "carrying water" right now.

[Hindsight was 2020]

Can we stay on subject?

You would like that, wouldn't you?  lol

Non-bad-faith posters do tend to like it when threads stay on-topic, yes.

It is not bad faith in a topic about misinformation to talk about how Democratic voters and politicians traffick in their preferred types of misinformation to gain partisan advantage.

In fact, it is exactly because many refuse to acknowledge the "both sides" aspect of our toxic media/political culture that public discourse in our country seems so fundamentally broken. 

It is bad faith because like every Trumper poster here (and as yourself has done in the past) you’re deliberately trying to conflate this once false accusation from Russiagate (that Russia changed actual votes) with the entire scandal (Russia interfered in the election and Trump’s campaign was in on it)

[Ancestral Republican]

Can we stay on subject?

You would like that, wouldn't you?  lol

Non-bad-faith posters do tend to like it when threads stay on-topic, yes.

It is not bad faith in a topic about misinformation to talk about how Democratic voters and politicians traffick in their preferred types of misinformation to gain partisan advantage.

In fact, it is exactly because many refuse to acknowledge the "both sides" aspect of our toxic media/political culture that public discourse in our country seems so fundamentally broken. 

You're reaching so hard to justify your false equivalency.

[Ferguson97]

Can we stay on subject?

You would like that, wouldn't you?  lol

Non-bad-faith posters do tend to like it when threads stay on-topic, yes.

It is not bad faith in a topic about misinformation to talk about how Democratic voters and politicians traffick in their preferred types of misinformation to gain partisan advantage.

In fact, it is exactly because many refuse to acknowledge the "both sides" aspect of our toxic media/political culture that public discourse in our country seems so fundamentally broken. 

Pretty sure whataboutism is like textbook bad-faith.

[politics_king]

Jan. 6 was largely a non-violent protest, that is a statement of fact

Pollsters asking people what they "believe" at a given moment (as opposed to more overt behavior, like voting intention) is designed to generate results like this.  Much to Atlas' surprise, most normal people do not spend their free time racking their brains about the causes and effects of events like 1/6.  Calling it a non-violent protest or the handiwork of left-wing agitators isn't really a statement of positive belief that an individual has arrived at after assessing some level of (dis)information, it's used only to signal which "team" the respondent plays for (and this is the inherent danger of NYT and WaPo continuing to give QAnon so much unearned attention; the more mainstream liberals turn it into a partisan bludgeon, the more defense of it will become a rallying cry for run-of-the-mill Republicans - it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.)

What were you watching?

[Del Tachi]

Can we stay on subject?

You would like that, wouldn't you?  lol

Non-bad-faith posters do tend to like it when threads stay on-topic, yes.

It is not bad faith in a topic about misinformation to talk about how Democratic voters and politicians traffick in their preferred types of misinformation to gain partisan advantage.

In fact, it is exactly because many refuse to acknowledge the "both sides" aspect of our toxic media/political culture that public discourse in our country seems so fundamentally broken. 

Pretty sure whataboutism is like textbook bad-faith.

"Whataboutism" often, like, provides necessary context to see whether a particular line of reasoning or critique is internally consistent with its own standards and arguments; accusing someone of it is just a way of lazily dismissing criticisms to focus instead on those of another, which itself is a type of whataboutery.

[Hermit For Peace]

They are gladly taking their stimulus checks though, I'll bet.

[Badger]

Jan. 6 was largely a non-violent protest, that is a statement of fact

140 Capitol Police injured, over a dozen of them serious enough for hospitalization including long-term damage to some of them like the guy who had his eyes gouged out, and of course 1 killed. This doesn't include the several insurrectionists who were killed.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Remember when Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Joe Biden encouraged BLM and Antifa to attack the White House?

Me neither.

[All Along The Watchtower]

Anyway, it's a shame that more than half of Republican voters reject democracy outright, but it is what it is.

[SAAuthCapitalist]

I remember when CNN was saying the BLM riots were actually done by white nationalists, Proud Boys, and Groypers.

And those riots were objectively far more violent than the Capitol thing.

[SAAuthCapitalist]

The January 6th riots involved Trump supporters beating a police officer to death with an American flag.  Along with many other acts of violence against cops and threats of violence against members of Congress, prevented only by the bravery of those same cops.

I don't want to hear anyone say they were non-violent.

There has been no evidence Sicknick died from injuries related to the riots though. This is from the FBI, not me.

[Person Man]

Did they? Did they consistently claim for months that Russia actually *changed vote tallies*?

Of course they didn't. Del Tachi is "carrying water" right now.

The Russians did a lot of their dirty tricks on their own by stealing emails from Trump's opponents and giving them to anarchists to publish them in a way that would give the opposition campaign continuous negative news coverage. They did not actually physically change a single vote once they were cast. Trump's campaign tried to hire Russian intelligence for opposition research and Trump at least constructively knew about it but the Trump Campaign wasn't able to directly hire the Russians to do what they did on their own anyway.



So no. I don't believe 2016 was stolen but I do believe what happened afterwards was appropriate.

[Badger]

The January 6th riots involved Trump supporters beating a police officer to death with an American flag.  Along with many other acts of violence against cops and threats of violence against members of Congress, prevented only by the bravery of those same cops.

I don't want to hear anyone say they were non-violent.

There has been no evidence Sicknick died from injuries related to the riots though. This is from the FBI, not me.

Yes, a healthy man in his early forties who is involved with hey Violet physical confrontation including being struck in the head and complained of pain immediately afterwards inexplicably goes into a coma and dies soon afterward. Please report back Sherlock as you continue to unravel this mystery for us!

[Badger]

I remember when CNN was saying the BLM riots were actually done by white nationalists, Proud Boys, and Groypers.

And those riots were objectively far more violent than the Capitol thing.

You have a tenuous bordering on non-existent grasp of the word "objectively".

[SAAuthCapitalist]

The January 6th riots involved Trump supporters beating a police officer to death with an American flag.  Along with many other acts of violence against cops and threats of violence against members of Congress, prevented only by the bravery of those same cops.

I don't want to hear anyone say they were non-violent.

There has been no evidence Sicknick died from injuries related to the riots though. This is from the FBI, not me.

Yes, a healthy man in his early forties who is involved with hey Violet physical confrontation including being struck in the head and complained of pain immediately afterwards inexplicably goes into a coma and dies soon afterward. Please report back Sherlock as you continue to unravel this mystery for us!

Note that the investigation is ongoing and the FBI still hasn’t charged anyone with his death.

Also, he was pepper sprayed, not struck in the head.

[brucejoel99]

Makes sense. I mean, what else is to be excepted of the party that was so sick of "coastal elites" that they... *checks notes* ... began worshiping a NYC slum lord-turned-game show host who literally lives in golden towers & castles?

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

The only Election that was stolen was 2000 and Gore didn't ask for a statewide recount, they should of counted all the ballots

[SWE]

You'd get similar numbers asking Republicans if either of Obama's victories were stolen.

[All Along The Watchtower]

You'd get similar numbers asking Republicans if either of Obama's victories were stolen.

America hasn't had a legitimate President since Jimmy Carter 76.

[Hermit For Peace]

Who ARE these people that allow themselves to be duped so?

What is it they are searching for in these questionable leaders? It's costing them money, whatever it is.

[SevenEleven]

These people are f**king idiots

Well, of course. They're GOP voters.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

All you have to do is look at History, KKK and KGB and Jay Edgar Hoover were responsible for the Kennedy Assassination  all the Civil Rights were killed by Right Militia Groups not Leftists.

They don't get it it that their own female kinsmen voted for the Ds without females, D party or Lincoln Underground Railroad with Harriet Tubman is nothing. Whom marched with Dr King as well

[Del Tachi]

Jan. 6 was largely a non-violent protest, that is a statement of fact

Pollsters asking people what they "believe" at a given moment (as opposed to more overt behavior, like voting intention) is designed to generate results like this.  Much to Atlas' surprise, most normal people do not spend their free time racking their brains about the causes and effects of events like 1/6.  Calling it a non-violent protest or the handiwork of left-wing agitators isn't really a statement of positive belief that an individual has arrived at after assessing some level of (dis)information, it's used only to signal which "team" the respondent plays for (and this is the inherent danger of NYT and WaPo continuing to give QAnon so much unearned attention; the more mainstream liberals turn it into a partisan bludgeon, the more defense of it will become a rallying cry for run-of-the-mill Republicans - it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.)

That sentence alone makes Republicans look far worse, petty, and downright stupid than anything I've ever typed about them. Congrats.

But Democrats do it too, as lfromnj pointed out above, over two-thirds of Democrats believe that Russia tampered with vote tallies to get Donald Trump elected in 2016* - a belief that is just as indisputably misaligned with the facts as believing the Jan. 6 riots were mostly the work of BLM or antifa

My axiom holds for both the left and right:  if media, in their all-consuming quest to garner clicks/views and drive narratives of division - amplify certain stories beyond what is reasonable (i.e., Russian interference, QAnon, etc.) then partisans will come to traffick in them regardless of their factual standing. 

*this is, FWIW, a lie that top Democrats like Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi pushed just as brazenly as Trump did his claims of election interference after 2020

Did they? Did they consistently claim for months that Russia actually *changed vote tallies*?

Joe Biden is emphatically not the first modern U.S. president trying to govern in the face of an opposition that refuses to accept his legitimacy.  Hillary Clinton told CBS' 60 Minutes as late as 2019 that "[Trump] knows he's an illegitimate president."

And it goes back way further than that, John Lewis and 20 more House Democrats refused to attend Trump's inauguration in 2017 because, as Lewis said, "I don't see him as a legitimate president...I think the Russians participated in helping this man get elected."

Jerry Nadler, who presided over one of the most costly and intrusive investigations into Trump's presidency, was allowed to do such after saying in 2017 that despite being "legally elected" Russian interference made "[Trump's] election illegitimate."

High-ranking and respected Democrats denying the legitimacy of our elections by participating in a Russian smear effort is open war on our democratic processes and institutions (it is all the more damning, even, that they were saying these things before the Mueller Report had been released.)  That this talk never went away is exactly why over two-thirds of Democrats believe baseless conspiracy theories about Donald Trump and the 2016 election.  Liberals boohooing now over the "delegitimization" of Biden have very select memories; they spent four years not only declaring Trump an illegitimate president, but they tried to remove him from office and abused their powers of investigation for political gain.   

[Del Tachi]

Can we stay on subject?

You would like that, wouldn't you?  lol

Non-bad-faith posters do tend to like it when threads stay on-topic, yes.

It is not bad faith in a topic about misinformation to talk about how Democratic voters and politicians traffick in their preferred types of misinformation to gain partisan advantage.

In fact, it is exactly because many refuse to acknowledge the "both sides" aspect of our toxic media/political culture that public discourse in our country seems so fundamentally broken. 

It is bad faith because like every Trumper poster here (and as yourself has done in the past) you’re deliberately trying to conflate this once false accusation from Russiagate (that Russia changed actual votes) with the entire scandal (Russia interfered in the election and Trump’s campaign was in on it)

I'm not trying to conflate anything.  It is a statement of observable fact that over two-thirds of Democrats believe Russia changed votes in 2016 - whose fault is that?  It is apparently liberals (with help from their friends in the sensationalist, anti-Trump MSM) who are doing the conflating, lol.