MD-SEN 2024: Cardin retiring, Hogan IN

[Oppo]

Isn’t the strongest evidence that Trone isn’t a progressive is that he’s not even a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus?

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Isn’t the strongest evidence that Trone isn’t a progressive is that he’s not even a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus?

I don’t think that means a whole lot.  Shontel Brown is a member of the New Democrat and Progressive Caucuses, for example.  These Caucus memberships are little more than empty virtue-signaling imo.  I care far more about how folks actually vote rather than branding.  In any case, as I’ve said, I’d prefer Alsobrooks.

[Gracile]

Isn’t the strongest evidence that Trone isn’t a progressive is that he’s not even a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus?

I don’t think that means a whole lot.  Shontel Brown is a member of the New Democrat and Progressive Caucuses, for example.  These Caucus memberships are little more than empty virtue-signaling imo.  I care far more about how folks actually vote rather than branding.  In any case, as I’ve said, I’d prefer Alsobrooks.

Trone still isn't a member of the Progressive Caucus even for "virtue-signaling" reasons, though, and he hasn't supported mainstream progressive policies like Medicare For All (which Brown cosponsored in the last Congress). Trone isn't really a progressive in any meaningful sense, and he has never branded himself as such.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

As I said before with OH, NC and TX and AK Blks are so galvanized to get Reparations we don't know what types of candidates Blk Ds can over performed

Landry is favored but it's a Runoff that's why I have LA and MS as wa e insurance and Karen Bass and Warnock over performed just like OH, NC, MO and TX and MT Ds can over performed if DeSantis is the nominee every poll shows he would keep it a 3o3 map Trump is losing 48/40 in every 3o3 state that's wave insurance

Cardin was a good Sen but he was a disappointment he isn't Chris Van Hollen he is adorned by blks Cardin isn't and that's one of the reasons why Alsobrooks has the edge since Hogan isn't in the race we needed Trone with Hogen

Just like in 2004 since Ryan was t a candidate we didn't need Blair Hull, Blair Hull was fav until Ryan dropped out and Obama became Sen, Mark Warner was supposed to be President in 2008 not Obama

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Isn’t the strongest evidence that Trone isn’t a progressive is that he’s not even a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus?

I don’t think that means a whole lot.  Shontel Brown is a member of the New Democrat and Progressive Caucuses, for example.  These Caucus memberships are little more than empty virtue-signaling imo.  I care far more about how folks actually vote rather than branding.  In any case, as I’ve said, I’d prefer Alsobrooks.

Trone still isn't a member of the Progressive Caucus even for "virtue-signaling" reasons, though, and he hasn't supported mainstream progressive policies like Medicare For All (which Brown cosponsored in the last Congress). Trone isn't really a progressive in any meaningful sense, and he has never branded himself as such.

I didn’t know he opposes Medicare for all.

[MarkD]

Isn’t the strongest evidence that Trone isn’t a progressive is that he’s not even a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus?

That's like saying former Congressman Ike Skelton (MO-04, 1977-2011) wasn't really a moderate Democrat because he never joined the Blue Dog group.

[Gracile]

Isn’t the strongest evidence that Trone isn’t a progressive is that he’s not even a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus?

That's like saying former Congressman Ike Skelton (MO-04, 1977-2011) wasn't really a moderate Democrat because he never joined the Blue Dog group.

Sure, but Trone still hasn't identified with progressives as a member of the House and doesn't support signature policies that the progressive wing of the party in Congress endorses (putting caucus membership aside). He is not a progressive, period.

I assume what Mr. X meant was that Trone votes the Democratic party line on most major issues, but that is not the same thing as being progressive or championing progressive policies. It may seem like a small point, but many of us on the progressive left would find that equivalence pretty ignorant.

[Chancellor Tanterterg]

Isn’t the strongest evidence that Trone isn’t a progressive is that he’s not even a member of the Congressional Progressive Caucus?

That's like saying former Congressman Ike Skelton (MO-04, 1977-2011) wasn't really a moderate Democrat because he never joined the Blue Dog group.

Sure, but Trone still hasn't identified with progressives as a member of the House and doesn't support signature policies that the progressive wing of the party in Congress endorses (putting caucus membership aside). He is not a progressive, period.

I assume what Mr. X meant was that Trone votes the Democratic party line on most major issues, but that is not the same thing as being progressive or championing progressive policies. It may seem like a small point, but many of us on the progressive left would find that equivalence pretty ignorant.

I meant that from what I knew of him, he struck me as a generic progressive/liberal backbencher who could generally be safely relied upon to vote for progressive policies.  However, the more I’ve learned about him, the less inclined I am to stick by that initial assessment.  I don’t think he’s some ConservaDem DINO nor do I think opposing a hate group like BDS disqualifies someone from being a progressive (as BruceJoel suggested), but I will concede that my initial assessment of him appears to have been incorrect.  I never claimed to be an expert on the man

In any case, all the more reason to support Alsobrooks (whom I’ve consistently indicated would be preferable imo).  I still hope Raskin doesn’t run because while I’d far prefer him to Alsobrooks, I don’t think he has a path to victory with another major Montgomery County candidate in the race.  It’d suck to lose him, especially when he’s in line to chair the House Oversight Committee whenever the House flips.

[Roll Roons]

https://twitter.com/LiaOffLeash/status/1658103839772364800

[Roll Roons]

Btw, I can already tell that this primary is going to be absolutely unbearable.

[RussFeingoldWasRobbed]

The more I read about them, the more I come away with the impression that Trone and Alsobrooks would both make good Senators.  I think I’d probably prefer Alsobrooks, but I’d be happy either way.  Raskin probably shouldn’t run though.  We’ve got a decent shot at flipping the House which would make him Chair of a major committee and there are already two solid mainstream progressives running, one of whom shares Raskin’s Montgomery County base.  

Jawano said he'd drop out and run for the House if Raskin runs

I was referring to Trone, not Jawano.  I don’t think Jawano has a path to victory in the Senate primary.  Trone and Alsobrooks both seem like solid mainstream progressives.  I’d be happy with either at this point, although I’d probably vote for Alsobrooks if I lived in Maryland.

Trone "progressive"!? That's a laugh.

On what major issues isn’t he a mainstream progressive?  Please cite with examples of specific policy positions.

Israel, (interest-conflicted) regulation, & no less an entity than socialism itself. What "mainstream progressive" is also a New Dem Problem Solver who not only hired a veteran Capitol Hill staffer with a specific reputation for serving moderate-leaning Blue Dog congressmen to be his Chief of Staff, but whose own website can literally be publicly quoted as follows?:

Steve Scully (0:14) - Let me begin with what the new Congress will look like, you will be now in the minority but a very narrow minority for the Democrats, the Republicans only, what a four-seat majority in 2023. So how’s that going to affect the leadership? If he becomes speaker? Kevin McCarthy. And where does that put moderate Democrats and moderate Republicans like you?

David Trone (0:36) - Well, I think it puts, if Kevin McCarthy can get the votes needed, 218 requisite votes needed, which, as we all know, he’s certainly struggling right now with some Freedom Caucus members who are not cooperating. But once he does that, and I think he will, I think the moderates are going to clearly be in a good spot, Republican moderates, Democrat moderates, we’re gonna have a chance to work together, with a agenda that can actually get accomplished. And sometimes in the past, we’ve overreached in our party, and that’s come back to bite us.

[...]

David Trone (2:43) - Well, as I might have noticed, like most folks have noticed, the January 6 Committee, we invited Republicans to be on. They made it crystal clear they didn’t want to be on. And we have two Republicans, both Kinzinger and Liz Cheney on the committee. And it’s been I think, believe, very, very balanced. I’m a moderate, and I’m looking for balance. We’re not looking to score political points. We want to put people over politics every day. And we need oversight. But we don’t need politics, American people are just sick and tired of it.

1) Opposing anti-Semitic hate groups like BDS =/= not being progressive
2) The Intercept is about as credible a source as Newsmax.  That said, the prohibition thing is obviously moronic if it’s actually true and not fake news.
3) Performative virtue signaling votes are not major issues
4) Unaware of the quote on the website.  Don’t love that (to put it mildly), but still not an actual major issue where he’s actually voted against progressive policies.

1. Tell that to no less of a mainstream progressive organization than the ACLU. BDS &, y'know, Israel & Palestine are pretty complicated topics; just flat-out ruling it anti-Semitic hate like you've just done isn't exactly progressive nor is it, incidentally, particularly Jewish (we're literally religiously taught to be critical & to not accept something blindly for the sake thereof), & I say those things as both a center-leftist &, y'know, as a Jew (who's thus not exactly crazy about anti-Semites!). FWIW, my take is that BDS is pretty clearly not inherently anti-Semitic as a concept for the same reason that not all criticism of the Israeli gov't. is inherently anti-Semitic (or else you & I have some Conversations to start having about Bibi), esp. if the endgame like some center left-to-leftist 2-staters such as myself's would be is just hopefully crossing fingers for outta-nowhere Sharon-style unilateral disengagement a-la de Klerk reversing Botha, but can & has definitely been used as a cover for anti-Semitism in exactly the same way that criticisms of the Israeli gov't. has been.

2. See for yourself (fun fact: the case is literally the only article listed under "See also" on the Trone-owned Total Wine & More's wiki page; incidentally, it's a great store with a great selection & I love shopping there, lol, Trone's still a mod tho)

3. "Performative virtue signaling votes" is literally AZ's Senior Senator rn, pretty major issue! (Getting ahead of you here, that was just a quip; no, Trone isn't Sinema 2.0, but that's not the progressive bar.)

4. To say nothing of the CoS also being something not to love, too, but thankfully it's not like the Senate has recently experienced a high-profile saga involving a CoS purportedly serving as a shadow Senator...

Speaking as a Jewish-American who considers Netanyahu an irredeemable, corrupt, racist, fascistic aspiring dictator and supports a two state solution, I’d argue BDS is pretty clearly a hate group animated largely by anti-Semitism.  So we’re just gonna have to agree to disagree on that one.

All I could find about his CoS is that he previously worked for Chris Pappas and Joe Cunningham.  Maybe he sucks for some other reason, but the guy’s prior congressional employment doesn’t bother me.  

However, Total Wine’s nonsense about the 21st amendment is moronic.

I'm conflicted on Israel-Palestine still despite having moved to the right in recent years, but yes stanning for BDS is not worth it

[Sestak]

Btw, I can already tell that this primary is going to be absolutely unbearable.

Eh. From my view of it, decent enough chance at this point Alsobrooks gets enough early momentum to coast out of the gate. Especially if Raskin bows out.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

Btw, I can already tell that this primary is going to be absolutely unbearable.

Eh. From my view of it, decent enough chance at this point Alsobrooks gets enough early momentum to coast out of the gate. Especially if Raskin bows out.

Yea it’ll likely be Alsobrooks coasting in while Trone desperate tries and fails to catch up

[LabourJersey]

Btw, I can already tell that this primary is going to be absolutely unbearable.

Eh. From my view of it, decent enough chance at this point Alsobrooks gets enough early momentum to coast out of the gate. Especially if Raskin bows out.

I think she's already starting to get the serious momentum needed to make her primary safe.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

Btw, I can already tell that this primary is going to be absolutely unbearable.

Eh. From my view of it, decent enough chance at this point Alsobrooks gets enough early momentum to coast out of the gate. Especially if Raskin bows out.

I think she's already starting to get the serious momentum needed to make her primary safe.

Slotkin can lose and Schiff can lose too we won't know until we get Emerson polls just like OH, MT Emerson had FL actually 3 pts in March

[SevenEleven]

There's no viable coalition for Trone here lmao. Alsobrooks appeals to all sides of the party.

[Suburbia]

There's no viable coalition for Trone here lmao. Alsobrooks appeals to all sides of the party.

Orioles owner John Angelos would wipe the floor with her, he has the money and he could appeal to black voters.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

There's no viable coalition for Trone here lmao. Alsobrooks appeals to all sides of the party.

Lol stop underestimating Alsobrooks and Barbara Lee did you know Karen Bass was down Double digits to Caruso  Schiff was the fav he is tied with Barbara Lee

The only person that's gonna win is Slotkin only Gilchrist can beat her and he is gonna run for Gov in 26 there are no MD polls

As I said the Maps are blank and there is a D primary in March of 24 anyone can win

[President Johnson]

There's no viable coalition for Trone here lmao. Alsobrooks appeals to all sides of the party.

So Alsobrooks is the clear favorite at this point? From what I've read, I certainly hope she wins this.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

There's no viable coalition for Trone here lmao. Alsobrooks appeals to all sides of the party.

So Alsobrooks is the clear favorite at this point? From what I've read, I certainly hope she wins this.

I’d be very surprised if she lost

[Not Me, Us]

There's no viable coalition for Trone here lmao. Alsobrooks appeals to all sides of the party.

So Alsobrooks is the clear favorite at this point? From what I've read, I certainly hope she wins this.

It seems like Trone is the only other serious candidate right now, but I'd be pretty shocked if he managed to beat Alsobrooks. Raskin might make it interesting, but it doesn't look like he's gonna jump in and Alsobrooks would still be favored even if he did. Likely Alsobrooks at this point.

[Born to Slay. Forced to Work.]

There's no viable coalition for Trone here lmao. Alsobrooks appeals to all sides of the party.

So Alsobrooks is the clear favorite at this point? From what I've read, I certainly hope she wins this.

It seems like Trone is the only other serious candidate right now, but I'd be pretty shocked if he managed to beat Alsobrooks. Raskin might make it interesting, but it doesn't look like he's gonna jump in and Alsobrooks would still be favored even if he did. Likely Alsobrooks at this point.

As much as Raskin would make a great senator, he is currently recovering from cancer at 60 years old so I am extremely doubtful he’ll jump in

[Zedonathin2020]

There's no viable coalition for Trone here lmao. Alsobrooks appeals to all sides of the party.

So Alsobrooks is the clear favorite at this point? From what I've read, I certainly hope she wins this.

It seems like Trone is the only other serious candidate right now, but I'd be pretty shocked if he managed to beat Alsobrooks. Raskin might make it interesting, but it doesn't look like he's gonna jump in and Alsobrooks would still be favored even if he did. Likely Alsobrooks at this point.

As much as Raskin would make a great senator, he is currently recovering from cancer at 60 years old so I am extremely doubtful he’ll jump in

I’ve said it before and I’ll probably be saying it more and more times, he is more likely at this point to retire from politics than run for Senate.

[Roll Roons]

https://twitter.com/maxpcohen/status/1664291262105567233?cxt=HHwWgoC2ibmF4JguAAA...

[Gracile]

Alsobrooks is going to cruise to the nomination at this point.