Will Islamism cease to be a threat?
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  Will Islamism cease to be a threat?
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Author Topic: Will Islamism cease to be a threat?  (Read 1375 times)
PSOL
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« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2021, 09:59:53 PM »

Al-Qaeda isnít going anywhere in any of their fronts, they are a nothingburger now.
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Samof94
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« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2021, 05:17:03 AM »

"Islamism" isn't really a single thing. In the Islamic world you've got your caliphate restorationists, but also those whose Islamism has more in common with Christian democracy than with ISIS, plus a much broader mass of voters and parties who may have generally politically conservative Islamic mores but who also have other material concerns that will affect their political affiliations.

And then you've got Islamist identities in western countries, which take different forms based on the political context they're reacting to it in that country.

There's enough variation there that it's possible for some of them to be in structural/cyclical decline whilst others are resilient or growing forces.

The OP was referring primarily to Salafi jihadists that we are all familiar with from the 1990s and 2000s:





And to answer the OP, not anytime soon, if this article from last summer is of any indication:

Report: Taliban allowing Al Qaeda training camps and providing support, despite U.S. agreement to cut all ties

Exactly. These people arenít going anywhere when they can use people like Trump in their propaganda.
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PR
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« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2021, 01:39:06 AM »

Al-Qaeda isnít going anywhere in any of their fronts, they are a nothingburger now.

Hardly, theyíre deeply embedded in insurgencies around the world.
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CumbrianLeftie
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« Reply #28 on: March 31, 2021, 08:07:36 AM »

Islamists seem to be causing a bit of bother in Mozambique right now.
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Frodo
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« Reply #29 on: March 31, 2021, 05:33:03 PM »

Islamists seem to be causing a bit of bother in Mozambique right now.

And in the eastern Congo.  West Africa, we already know... 
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The Mikado
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« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2021, 06:02:28 PM »

Will Islamism ever stop being a threat??? Iím not talking about Islam, I am talking mostly about Salafi Jihadism, an ideology that is obviously genocidal and created refugees in the millions.

I love how this definition of "Islamism" excludes the Islamic Republic of Iran, which most fearmongerers about Islamic fundamentalism would (laughably) point to as threat #1.

And the answer is embedded right there. With the Middle East turning into a Saudi vs Iranian battle for domination of the region, the jihadi types are mostly agitated about fighting Iran and its proxies (Assad, the Houthis in Yemen, etc), not "the West."
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Samof94
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« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2021, 06:09:23 AM »

Will Islamism ever stop being a threat??? Iím not talking about Islam, I am talking mostly about Salafi Jihadism, an ideology that is obviously genocidal and created refugees in the millions.

I love how this definition of "Islamism" excludes the Islamic Republic of Iran, which most fearmongerers about Islamic fundamentalism would (laughably) point to as threat #1.

And the answer is embedded right there. With the Middle East turning into a Saudi vs Iranian battle for domination of the region, the jihadi types are mostly agitated about fighting Iran and its proxies (Assad, the Houthis in Yemen, etc), not "the West."
They are also a threat but Shia terrorism is a lot less global.
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ingemann
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« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2021, 09:17:00 AM »

Will Islamism ever stop being a threat??? Iím not talking about Islam, I am talking mostly about Salafi Jihadism, an ideology that is obviously genocidal and created refugees in the millions.

I love how this definition of "Islamism" excludes the Islamic Republic of Iran, which most fearmongerers about Islamic fundamentalism would (laughably) point to as threat #1.

And the answer is embedded right there. With the Middle East turning into a Saudi vs Iranian battle for domination of the region, the jihadi types are mostly agitated about fighting Iran and its proxies (Assad, the Houthis in Yemen, etc), not "the West."

Honestly the only country in the Western World where Iran is seen as part of the threat from Islamism is USA, pretty much everyone else recognize that the vast majority of Islamic terrorism is funded by our good allies in the Persian Gulf.
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PR
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« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2021, 01:27:22 AM »

Will Islamism ever stop being a threat??? Iím not talking about Islam, I am talking mostly about Salafi Jihadism, an ideology that is obviously genocidal and created refugees in the millions.

I love how this definition of "Islamism" excludes the Islamic Republic of Iran, which most fearmongerers about Islamic fundamentalism would (laughably) point to as threat #1.

And the answer is embedded right there. With the Middle East turning into a Saudi vs Iranian battle for domination of the region, the jihadi types are mostly agitated about fighting Iran and its proxies (Assad, the Houthis in Yemen, etc), not "the West."

Honestly the only country in the Western World where Iran is seen as part of the threat from Islamism is USA, pretty much everyone else recognize that the vast majority of Islamic terrorism is funded by our good allies in the Persian Gulf.

Iran harbors a lot of al-Qaeda senior leadership and they, Hezbollah, and the Assad regime have facilitated and allied with jihadists many times. They have plenty of Sunni allies in the Arab world, which makes sense because merely supporting Shiite groups limits the degree of their influence in the Arab and Islamic worlds (Shiites are a minority of Muslims, after all). Moreover, Iran supporting Shiite groups is obvious and expected, whereas supporting Sunnis (including Salafi jihadists) gives them more plausible deniability and a broader array of options.

The Islamic Revolution of 1979 may have been Shiite, but its aspirations were, and are, pan-Islamist and it inspired Islamists across the board. Khomeini and his supporters condemned the United States, Israel, and the Gulf monarchies; in Iran, they had helped overthrow a monarchy that had been allied with the US and Israel. Al Qaeda and other Salafi jihadist groups similarly despise the US, Israel, and the Gulf monarchies. They can be pragmatic enough, and opportunistic enough, to find common cause with Iran here.
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MR. NAPHTHALI BENNETT
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« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2021, 01:55:30 AM »

Will Islamism ever stop being a threat??? Iím not talking about Islam, I am talking mostly about Salafi Jihadism, an ideology that is obviously genocidal and created refugees in the millions.

I love how this definition of "Islamism" excludes the Islamic Republic of Iran, which most fearmongerers about Islamic fundamentalism would (laughably) point to as threat #1.

And the answer is embedded right there. With the Middle East turning into a Saudi vs Iranian battle for domination of the region, the jihadi types are mostly agitated about fighting Iran and its proxies (Assad, the Houthis in Yemen, etc), not "the West."

Honestly the only country in the Western World where Iran is seen as part of the threat from Islamism is USA, pretty much everyone else recognize that the vast majority of Islamic terrorism is funded by our good allies in the Persian Gulf.

Iran harbors a lot of al-Qaeda senior leadership and they, Hezbollah, and the Assad regime have facilitated and allied with jihadists many times. They have plenty of Sunni allies in the Arab world, which makes sense because merely supporting Shiite groups limits the degree of their influence in the Arab and Islamic worlds (Shiites are a minority of Muslims, after all). Moreover, Iran supporting Shiite groups is obvious and expected, whereas supporting Sunnis (including Salafi jihadists) gives them more plausible deniability and a broader array of options.

The Islamic Revolution of 1979 may have been Shiite, but its aspirations were, and are, pan-Islamist and it inspired Islamists across the board. Khomeini and his supporters condemned the United States, Israel, and the Gulf monarchies; in Iran, they had helped overthrow a monarchy that had been allied with the US and Israel. Al Qaeda and other Salafi jihadist groups similarly despise the US, Israel, and the Gulf monarchies. They can be pragmatic enough, and opportunistic enough, to find common cause with Iran here.

Yeah. I absolutely agree with the sense developing on the left that affirmatively supporting Saudi Arabia over against Iran is getting ridiculous, but let's not pretend the Iranians are cuddly teddy bears either.
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Samof94
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« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2021, 07:12:35 AM »

Will Islamism ever stop being a threat??? Iím not talking about Islam, I am talking mostly about Salafi Jihadism, an ideology that is obviously genocidal and created refugees in the millions.

I love how this definition of "Islamism" excludes the Islamic Republic of Iran, which most fearmongerers about Islamic fundamentalism would (laughably) point to as threat #1.

And the answer is embedded right there. With the Middle East turning into a Saudi vs Iranian battle for domination of the region, the jihadi types are mostly agitated about fighting Iran and its proxies (Assad, the Houthis in Yemen, etc), not "the West."

Honestly the only country in the Western World where Iran is seen as part of the threat from Islamism is USA, pretty much everyone else recognize that the vast majority of Islamic terrorism is funded by our good allies in the Persian Gulf.

Iran harbors a lot of al-Qaeda senior leadership and they, Hezbollah, and the Assad regime have facilitated and allied with jihadists many times. They have plenty of Sunni allies in the Arab world, which makes sense because merely supporting Shiite groups limits the degree of their influence in the Arab and Islamic worlds (Shiites are a minority of Muslims, after all). Moreover, Iran supporting Shiite groups is obvious and expected, whereas supporting Sunnis (including Salafi jihadists) gives them more plausible deniability and a broader array of options.

The Islamic Revolution of 1979 may have been Shiite, but its aspirations were, and are, pan-Islamist and it inspired Islamists across the board. Khomeini and his supporters condemned the United States, Israel, and the Gulf monarchies; in Iran, they had helped overthrow a monarchy that had been allied with the US and Israel. Al Qaeda and other Salafi jihadist groups similarly despise the US, Israel, and the Gulf monarchies. They can be pragmatic enough, and opportunistic enough, to find common cause with Iran here.
Hesbollah??
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PR
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« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2021, 10:14:02 AM »

Will Islamism ever stop being a threat??? Iím not talking about Islam, I am talking mostly about Salafi Jihadism, an ideology that is obviously genocidal and created refugees in the millions.

I love how this definition of "Islamism" excludes the Islamic Republic of Iran, which most fearmongerers about Islamic fundamentalism would (laughably) point to as threat #1.

And the answer is embedded right there. With the Middle East turning into a Saudi vs Iranian battle for domination of the region, the jihadi types are mostly agitated about fighting Iran and its proxies (Assad, the Houthis in Yemen, etc), not "the West."

Honestly the only country in the Western World where Iran is seen as part of the threat from Islamism is USA, pretty much everyone else recognize that the vast majority of Islamic terrorism is funded by our good allies in the Persian Gulf.

Iran harbors a lot of al-Qaeda senior leadership and they, Hezbollah, and the Assad regime have facilitated and allied with jihadists many times. They have plenty of Sunni allies in the Arab world, which makes sense because merely supporting Shiite groups limits the degree of their influence in the Arab and Islamic worlds (Shiites are a minority of Muslims, after all). Moreover, Iran supporting Shiite groups is obvious and expected, whereas supporting Sunnis (including Salafi jihadists) gives them more plausible deniability and a broader array of options.

The Islamic Revolution of 1979 may have been Shiite, but its aspirations were, and are, pan-Islamist and it inspired Islamists across the board. Khomeini and his supporters condemned the United States, Israel, and the Gulf monarchies; in Iran, they had helped overthrow a monarchy that had been allied with the US and Israel. Al Qaeda and other Salafi jihadist groups similarly despise the US, Israel, and the Gulf monarchies. They can be pragmatic enough, and opportunistic enough, to find common cause with Iran here.
Hesbollah??

Yes. What about them?
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PR
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« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2021, 10:17:12 AM »

Will Islamism ever stop being a threat??? Iím not talking about Islam, I am talking mostly about Salafi Jihadism, an ideology that is obviously genocidal and created refugees in the millions.

I love how this definition of "Islamism" excludes the Islamic Republic of Iran, which most fearmongerers about Islamic fundamentalism would (laughably) point to as threat #1.

And the answer is embedded right there. With the Middle East turning into a Saudi vs Iranian battle for domination of the region, the jihadi types are mostly agitated about fighting Iran and its proxies (Assad, the Houthis in Yemen, etc), not "the West."

Honestly the only country in the Western World where Iran is seen as part of the threat from Islamism is USA, pretty much everyone else recognize that the vast majority of Islamic terrorism is funded by our good allies in the Persian Gulf.

Iran harbors a lot of al-Qaeda senior leadership and they, Hezbollah, and the Assad regime have facilitated and allied with jihadists many times. They have plenty of Sunni allies in the Arab world, which makes sense because merely supporting Shiite groups limits the degree of their influence in the Arab and Islamic worlds (Shiites are a minority of Muslims, after all). Moreover, Iran supporting Shiite groups is obvious and expected, whereas supporting Sunnis (including Salafi jihadists) gives them more plausible deniability and a broader array of options.

The Islamic Revolution of 1979 may have been Shiite, but its aspirations were, and are, pan-Islamist and it inspired Islamists across the board. Khomeini and his supporters condemned the United States, Israel, and the Gulf monarchies; in Iran, they had helped overthrow a monarchy that had been allied with the US and Israel. Al Qaeda and other Salafi jihadist groups similarly despise the US, Israel, and the Gulf monarchies. They can be pragmatic enough, and opportunistic enough, to find common cause with Iran here.

Yeah. I absolutely agree with the sense developing on the left that affirmatively supporting Saudi Arabia over against Iran is getting ridiculous, but let's not pretend the Iranians are cuddly teddy bears either.

Viciously authoritarian monarchy that sponsors Wahhabi ideology vs. viciously authoritarian theocracy that exports its Islamist ďrevolutionĒ via various violent proxies. Pick your poison I guess.
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PSOL
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« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2021, 11:17:12 AM »

Iran is countered by its ambitions by Israel and Turkey also, so the argument that Iran would take over from a US-deescalation regionally falls flat.
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Samof94
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« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2021, 05:48:40 PM »

Will Islamism ever stop being a threat??? Iím not talking about Islam, I am talking mostly about Salafi Jihadism, an ideology that is obviously genocidal and created refugees in the millions.

I love how this definition of "Islamism" excludes the Islamic Republic of Iran, which most fearmongerers about Islamic fundamentalism would (laughably) point to as threat #1.

And the answer is embedded right there. With the Middle East turning into a Saudi vs Iranian battle for domination of the region, the jihadi types are mostly agitated about fighting Iran and its proxies (Assad, the Houthis in Yemen, etc), not "the West."

Honestly the only country in the Western World where Iran is seen as part of the threat from Islamism is USA, pretty much everyone else recognize that the vast majority of Islamic terrorism is funded by our good allies in the Persian Gulf.

Iran harbors a lot of al-Qaeda senior leadership and they, Hezbollah, and the Assad regime have facilitated and allied with jihadists many times. They have plenty of Sunni allies in the Arab world, which makes sense because merely supporting Shiite groups limits the degree of their influence in the Arab and Islamic worlds (Shiites are a minority of Muslims, after all). Moreover, Iran supporting Shiite groups is obvious and expected, whereas supporting Sunnis (including Salafi jihadists) gives them more plausible deniability and a broader array of options.

The Islamic Revolution of 1979 may have been Shiite, but its aspirations were, and are, pan-Islamist and it inspired Islamists across the board. Khomeini and his supporters condemned the United States, Israel, and the Gulf monarchies; in Iran, they had helped overthrow a monarchy that had been allied with the US and Israel. Al Qaeda and other Salafi jihadist groups similarly despise the US, Israel, and the Gulf monarchies. They can be pragmatic enough, and opportunistic enough, to find common cause with Iran here.
Hesbollah??

Yes. What about them?
They are Shia militants and one of the few well known examples.
Houthis is a more hardline one.
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PSOL
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« Reply #40 on: June 12, 2021, 12:00:19 AM »

The Houthis from the info Iím getting on them are only more rigid in the sense of fully representing the oppressed Zaydi Shia minority there. Unlike with the PMU or Hezbollah however, they are not as sectarian. The government of the northern Yemeni state also is not totally ran by the Houthis or just Shias and has better rule of law.

This, and mainly the fact that the cooperation between the Houthis and Iran is quite minimal relatively speakingóthey arenít subservient proxies totally onboard with what Khomeini or the Sepah saysóis why they arenít on the terror list anymore.

Iran isnít Al-Qaeda in wanting to create a new Caliphate or even having the means to anymore.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #41 on: June 12, 2021, 04:21:01 AM »

Define "threat".

If you mean "threat to the U.S." then it's been years since we needed to base our policies on how to react to Islamists.

To the extent we even need to consider Islamist-specific issues, those entirely are foreign policy concerns.
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PR
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« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2021, 01:14:50 PM »

The Houthis from the info Iím getting on them are only more rigid in the sense of fully representing the oppressed Zaydi Shia minority there. Unlike with the PMU or Hezbollah however, they are not as sectarian. The government of the northern Yemeni state also is not totally ran by the Houthis or just Shias and has better rule of law.

This, and mainly the fact that the cooperation between the Houthis and Iran is quite minimal relatively speakingóthey arenít subservient proxies totally onboard with what Khomeini or the Sepah saysóis why they arenít on the terror list anymore.

Iran isnít Al-Qaeda in wanting to create a new Caliphate or even having the means to anymore.

So much of this post is wrong itís hard to know where to start.
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PSOL
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« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2021, 02:44:10 PM »

The Houthis from the info Iím getting on them are only more rigid in the sense of fully representing the oppressed Zaydi Shia minority there. Unlike with the PMU or Hezbollah however, they are not as sectarian. The government of the northern Yemeni state also is not totally ran by the Houthis or just Shias and has better rule of law.

This, and mainly the fact that the cooperation between the Houthis and Iran is quite minimal relatively speakingóthey arenít subservient proxies totally onboard with what Khomeini or the Sepah saysóis why they arenít on the terror list anymore.

Iran isnít Al-Qaeda in wanting to create a new Caliphate or even having the means to anymore.

So much of this post is wrong itís hard to know where to start.
Start with the first paragraph.
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