DOUBLE DISSOLUTION
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  Atlas Fantasy Elections
  Atlas Fantasy Elections (Moderators: Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee, Lumine)
  DOUBLE DISSOLUTION
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Poll
Question: Do you think double dissolution should be considered?
#1
Yes
 
#2
No
 
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Partisan results

Total Voters: 41

Author Topic: DOUBLE DISSOLUTION  (Read 1945 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2021, 12:39:03 PM »


Nobody told me to make that poll, for the record. Nor did I link it on discord (although in full transparency it incidentally was). Nor did I tell MB to make this thread. Nor do I think dissolution is workable or (at least on it's own) even desirable. I just think it's an interesting discussion and it was kinda shot down in the offsite recruitment thread.

Also I said:

Quote
I suspect most of us will have a more nuanced answer than fits the question I'm attempting to ask. It's meant more as a jumping off point to discuss the pros and cons of "machine politics," in general. Perhaps we could also discuss "how to make the game better," although ideally that's a logically follow-up.

I don't really know how I could've made a more clear disclaimer Tongue

I wasn't talking about you or your poll. Your poll was fine except for the lack of a set of more nuanced poll choices, because fun fact, people don't read the fine print.

People also tend to bandwagon effect on these things.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2021, 12:42:33 PM »


Glorious News!
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YE
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« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2021, 12:52:31 PM »

For real this isn't at all realistic. Not just because of Yankee refusing to dissolve the Feds but Labor has such a strong culture ever since revival that I don't think is recognized and it's hard to break that up and as a result it's really far fetched to get an outcome that results in people on different sides GOTVing for each other. Getting some of the 2018 or earlier players to hang it up completely (something I had more or less done by mid-last year) and voluntarily (and presumably some of the recruits would fall of the rolls a well in turn especially our Discord recruits) is probably more realistic, though aside from possibly increasing the officeholder:active player ratio that doesn't address the root causes that the game has faced that I pointed out in another thread yesterday.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2021, 12:57:59 PM »

Yes, best to just kick back and enjoy the fruits of others' Labor at this point. I don't know why people keep trying to fight it!


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Mike Thick
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« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2021, 01:18:12 PM »

Really the only way this works is like. If somebody reverse-Parent Trap-s a bunch of the leaders on both sides into hating each other. Which I guess is possible but you would have to be a psycho to try
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YE
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« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2021, 01:22:20 PM »

Also, pre-dissolution, wasn't there an anti-JCP left at the very least which could create divides after that.

JCP's origins were a lot messier than Labor's because they initially ran 2 JCP/RPP tickets before becoming dominant. Furthermore, this forum is probably much more polarized now than it was back then due to IRL trends, which favors two massive dupolies.
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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2021, 01:54:46 PM »
« Edited: March 02, 2021, 02:00:56 PM by Where We Griff 1 We Griff All »

Also, pre-dissolution, wasn't there an anti-JCP left at the very least which could create divides after that.

If you know your immediate post-dissolution history, then the best analog would be:

RPP: Federalist
JCP: Liberal
UDL: Labor (failed)
POP: Right-leaning I guess; not sure how to categorize them

Obviously some nuance still applies, but like every breakaway duopoly faction before or since (with one notable exception), UDL got to a relatively large size (15-20% of the game) and then slowly collapsed on itself.

While most in the game today don't know it or can't imagine such given contemporary happenings, Labor was the first and only example of a party actually breaking the historical mold of the game (i.e. dominance of the game by a left-center/liberal faction with periodic successes for right-of-center movements). Labor not only established its dominance as a left/socialist entity, but waged a hemispherical civil war with the prevailing liberal factions and successfully defeated them.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2021, 02:00:15 PM »

Also, pre-dissolution, wasn't there an anti-JCP left at the very least which could create divides after that.

JCP's origins were a lot messier than Labor's because they initially ran 2 JCP/RPP tickets before becoming dominant. Furthermore, this forum is probably much more polarized now than it was back then due to IRL trends, which favors two massive dupolies.

There were two mass anti-JCP left parties during the period between 2008 and 2012. These were the SDP and the UDL, while both contained some people that would be key to Labor later on in its formation, UDL also had a bunch of centrist types that were kind of without a political home on the center left and did not like JCP very much.

Furthermore, it is worth remembering also that the JCP did at various points absorb much of this internally and this happened from early 2009 with the SDP-JCP merger to December 2010 when UDL formed, and from mid 2011 after UDL was shut out of At-large until the dissolution. One of the key things that killed the UDL was the RPP/Populares ticket winning February 2011. Once that happened, bgwah essentially had the means to "attaint" the UDL as traitors and cuck it into submission for costing them their birthright, the White House. Also Antonio famously did not recruit and saw recruitment as corrupt, though this was a fringe view even by that period's standards. The UDL did create enough of a split to allow the RPP to reach number 1 in membership a couple of times in late 2010 and early 2011, which was my crowning moment because we went from dead to 1 in a year.

Aside from the mass anti-JCP left, you had meme left and radical type parties floating around including HorseTakesUpPainting, Leipist National Front, Cultural Marxist Party, Chartists and so forth, with the last one being The Silly Party.

A lot of people did not like bgwah on the left, ranging from Gustaf on the center left to Xahar on the far left. Gustaf as a mod recalled bgwah's trolling days and thus was not fond of him for that reason. Bgwah and the JCP spent a great deal of time tormenting Xahar in the Pacific. Xahar had been in the SDP but he did not follow the rest of the members (Marokai and MaxQue especially) into the JCPs ranks after the merger.



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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2021, 02:09:48 PM »

Also, pre-dissolution, wasn't there an anti-JCP left at the very least which could create divides after that.

If you know your immediate post-dissolution history, then the best analog would be:

RPP: Federalist
JCP: Liberal
UDL: Labor (failed)
POP: Right-leaning I guess; not sure how to categorize them

Obviously some nuance still applies, but like every breakaway duopoly faction before or since (with one notable exception), UDL got to a relatively large size (15-20% of the game) and then slowly collapsed on itself.

While most in the game today don't know it or can't imagine such given contemporary happenings, Labor was the first and only example of a party actually breaking the historical mold of the game (i.e. dominance of the game by a left-center/liberal faction with periodic successes for right-of-center movements). Labor not only established its dominance as a left/socialist entity, but waged a hemispherical civil war with the prevailing liberal factions and successfully defeated them.

UDL is not a perfect analog because it had people like Benconstine and HappyWarrior. But of course Labor had Mr. X for a spell too. Tongue That said I agree.

Populares drew heavily from libertarians and libertarian leaning conservatives, but also had a couple of rino types in their ranks as well that they recruited. Also drew heavily from hamilton's sock drawer early on. They initially were called ARC ATlasian Reform Coalition and their angle was "RPP is abusing you libertarians, time to revolt against the RPP Populists". They used the fact that the RPP Senate delegation had gone from PiT and SPC to Jedi, myself and RowanBrandon to make this stick. Its four founders were Hamilton, Libertas, Einzige and Ghost White (under a different account at the time).

After a time it came under Jbrase and then Dallasfan's control. The last time I "knowingly talked to Hamilton" (excluding talking to Napoleon) until 2015/2016, was in October 2010 on AIM, ten months after his ban. He was livid at the direction of the Populares and vowed to destroy them and then once he destroyed them he was going to come after us (The RPP). As Napoleon, he absorbed a good bit of the Populares into the JCP, double dissolution took care of the RPP for him and he inherited the earth as the Liberal Party hegemon.

Very rare I get to say this, but Thank You, Adam Griffin!!!.



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Adam Griffin
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« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2021, 07:50:34 PM »

Very rare I get to say this, but Thank You, Adam Griffin!!!.

For posting that, or for beating Hamilton? Tongue




[/quote]
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2021, 07:55:59 PM »

Very rare I get to say this, but Thank You, Adam Griffin!!!.

For posting that, or for beating Hamilton? Tongue




[/quote]

Hamilton obviously.
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Harvey Updyke Jr🌹
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« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2021, 08:19:52 PM »

Stop with the meme polls


Shirley you must be joking
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AGA
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« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2021, 08:40:35 PM »

The Liberal Party is accepting people dissatisfied with the current partisan duopoly Smiley
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YE
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« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2021, 08:44:00 PM »

Why was this thread bumped?
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bgwah
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« Reply #39 on: May 08, 2021, 10:27:32 PM »

I conceded to it last time, gave it a chance. Sacrificed so much that I cared so deeply about in this game and it failed. Why should I give up my freedom of association so you guys can learn the same lesson the hard way?

You want to change the party landscape, its called the registration thread. USE it! Grow some balls, ditch labor and its affiliates. But don't send the jackboots and the tanks to force me to change mine.

The RPP got what it deserved for incorporating Marokai Blue into its ranks. 👻
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Leinad
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« Reply #40 on: May 08, 2021, 10:55:01 PM »


Not sure, and it's kinda annoying, but since it was I noticed that there've been at least 2 threads in the last month discussing this idea. When I opened this thread I expected it to be the new one, and was confused by all these posts from March.
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