Office of Oakvale, attorney at law (user search)
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Author Topic: Office of Oakvale, attorney at law  (Read 3208 times)
Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« on: March 05, 2021, 07:23:06 PM »


Statement on recent events

Like all Atlasians, I am deeply perturbed by the shocking events of today, where Atlasia's democratically elected President, Windjammer, refused to take office, elevating his running mate, Sestak, to the presidency.

I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of the former president-elect's declaration that other commitments proved too pressing to ignore. Indeed, such honesty, rather than serving out an inactive and inattentive term, is commendable and noble. Likewise, I have every faith that President Sestak will discharge his duties with dignity and integrity.

Nonetheless, Atlasians must be confident that their democratic will has been respected and that we are not sliding into a dark and murky era where voters can no longer safely trust that the political establishment will abstain from 'bait and switch' maneuvers with no forewarning.

I wish President Sestak and the chief justice well.

Such is what happens when you run for President without actually desiring to be President. While doing so might be beneficial internally, it becomes difficult when you accidentally win.

I was always of a mine to think Jambles would not leave the court and yet last couple days began to think he might. First instinct is the best sometimes.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2021, 07:30:13 PM »


Statement on recent events

Like all Atlasians, I am deeply perturbed by the shocking events of today, where Atlasia's democratically elected President, Windjammer, refused to take office, elevating his running mate, Sestak, to the presidency.

I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of the former president-elect's declaration that other commitments proved too pressing to ignore. Indeed, such honesty, rather than serving out an inactive and inattentive term, is commendable and noble. Likewise, I have every faith that President Sestak will discharge his duties with dignity and integrity.

Nonetheless, Atlasians must be confident that their democratic will has been respected and that we are not sliding into a dark and murky era where voters can no longer safely trust that the political establishment will abstain from 'bait and switch' maneuvers with no forewarning.

I wish President Sestak and the chief justice well.

Such is what happens when you run for President without actually desiring to be President. While doing so for party maintenance operations might be beneficial internally, it becomes difficult when you accidentally win.

It would seem to me that, if nothing else, we could surely have been provided with some advanced warning, as a courtesy. I woke up this morning ready for the beginning of the Windjammer era and was fairly stunned when I realised what had transpired.

It's hard for me to fake surprise in this case. They been clear they expected to lose and when you consider the nature of the ticket switch and that it was Jambles as candidate, this was at least somewhat likely. Though as I said towards the end, for some reason I began to think he might actually serve.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2021, 11:16:05 PM »

I have advised house members who were simultaneously elected as Senators to swear in for house the resign before swearing in for the higher office.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2021, 11:46:15 AM »

When it comes to things like amendments and final votes for that matter some degree of what we use to fondly care Bacon Kings Patented Loophole AbuseTM is acceptable as long as requisite majorities are achieved. We often start votes if a couple days passed since a final vote motion even if no one called for objections. On votes of extreme consequence though, you generally should make sure to keep all the Is dotted and the Ts crossed.

The best and easiest way is to keep the relevant guidance be it constitution/rules what have you tabbed and review it as you go.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2021, 02:54:40 PM »

So I go from facing Wulfric on the other side of the court to facing Oakvale? Talk about an upgrade for the defence! (unfortunately for myself)

Its been nice knowing you. Tongue
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2021, 02:56:38 PM »

When it comes to things like amendments and final votes for that matter some degree of what we use to fondly care Bacon Kings Patented Loophole AbuseTM is acceptable as long as requisite majorities are achieved. We often start votes if a couple days passed since a final vote motion even if no one called for objections. On votes of extreme consequence though, you generally should make sure to keep all the Is dotted and the Ts crossed.

The best and easiest way is to keep the relevant guidance be it constitution/rules what have you tabbed and review it as you go.

Well, given Bacon King is going to be the justice issuing a rule here I guess this is going to get dismissed then Tongue

When I sued the Marokai administration I made sure to gratuitously mention the relevant precedent, which just so happened to be a case that the then Chief Justice had brought several years prior and thus included his name. Tongue
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2021, 10:37:45 AM »

As weak of a point as it is, OSR is correct about one thing. A large portion of the conservative element has exported itself to discord. This is more a product of RL pressures towards echo chambers than anything in game, but it means that the posting community tilts even more to the left.

It is also been well established that many are so fed up with the continued dynamic of working your ass off each cycle only to just get steamrolled by 10% instead of 30% for going on almost 3 years now, that blatant exercises are becoming not only accepted, but even celebrated.

So the question at that point becomes, how do you unwind this dependency without further increasing the power and dominance of one party rule. If I could turn the clock back I would, the simplest answer is the impossible one.

Absent that I have repeatedly asked that people not wait to the last minute, not post the bare minimum and post in the form of legitimate posts for multiple cycles. Sadly, water follows the course of least resistance.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2021, 01:20:46 AM »


“I’m going to fight hard....”

It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a justice saying "I am going to fight hard to preserve the independence of the court", which considering the comments of Dwarven Dragon, where for a decent period was literally calling for impeachment for "results oriented purposes" (as in desiring to reshape the court to achieve his desired ruling at least until he learned said ruling was unanimous-oops) is hardly to be brushed off.

That is different from the comments he said threatening careers etc, which are unacceptable.

For historical example, Ebowed, bgwah and Opebo fought back against Adam Griffin's Laborite hordes when they aggressively sought to reshape the court's composition following their adverse ruling in the case over the June 2013 Pacific business.

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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2021, 01:40:46 AM »

C'mon Oakie, literally one of my first actions after returning to the Presidency in 2019 was scheming behind the scenes to make sure BK got his seat all those years later...after you tried to put him on the court in the final weeks in 2015 before I became President during Bore's lameduck and I wanted to install Dear Sweet Jambles.

They're both on the court now! Can't we just let bygones be bygones? We all know the Court is a travesty of partisan control: just because I have the biggest fingerprints on a 4-year majority-Liebor Court doesn't mean we didn't all get what we wanted in the end!

Pointing out the incompetence and sedition of the current Court has nothing to do with partisanship.

Says the prosecutor who conveniently delayed his case until after the Lincolnite secession effort, which devoted extensive energies too I might add.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2021, 01:53:26 AM »

C'mon Oakie, literally one of my first actions after returning to the Presidency in 2019 was scheming behind the scenes to make sure BK got his seat all those years later...after you tried to put him on the court in the final weeks in 2015 before I became President during Bore's lameduck and I wanted to install Dear Sweet Jambles.

They're both on the court now! Can't we just let bygones be bygones? We all know the Court is a travesty of partisan control: just because I have the biggest fingerprints on a 4-year majority-Liebor Court doesn't mean we didn't all get what we wanted in the end!

Pointing out the incompetence and sedition of the current Court has nothing to do with partisanship.

Says the prosecutor who conveniently delayed his case until after the Lincolnite secession effort, which devoted extensive energies too I might add.

You mean the legal and constitutional effort to achieve autonomy in our region? Explain to me how you guys allowing someone who arguably broke RL law against an opposing voter to continue to participate in Atlasia and your judge having a meltdown on the bench threatening all his opponents is on that level in any way.

Did you delay the case intentionally so you could devote your time to the secessionist effort?
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2021, 01:58:56 AM »


“I’m going to fight hard....”

It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a justice saying "I am going to fight hard to preserve the independence of the court", which considering the comments of Dwarven Dragon, where for a decent period was literally calling for impeachment for "results oriented purposes" (as in desiring to reshape the court to achieve his desired ruling at least until he learned said ruling was unanimous-oops) is hardly to be brushed off.

That is different from the comments he said threatening careers etc, which are unacceptable.

For historical example, Ebowed, bgwah and Opebo fought back against Adam Griffin's Laborite hordes when they aggressively sought to reshape the court's composition following their adverse ruling in the case over the June 2013 Pacific business.



From my interpretation, the Justice is saying he will “fight for the independence of the court” in response to Crane and myself, as if criticism of the Court is adjacent to attempting to usurp the independence of the judiciary. Simply put, an utterly absurd statement to make, and one that only strengthens the argument against him.

I assume you are referring to these comments by Wulfric?
Backtrack on this decision and your threats and let the trial go forward. That is the only way you will secure your future at this stage.

Speaking for myself, I most definitely don’t think the Court has any outside obligation to reverse decisions it has made. But backtracking and apologizing for the threats made would certainly be in order.

Dwarven made other statements inferring that "Impeachment of Windjammer would be a first step to reverse the ruling", until Bacon King and ILV divulged that it was unanimous.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
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Posts: 54,123
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« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2021, 02:11:59 AM »

You mean the legal and constitutional effort to achieve autonomy in our region?

Hiding behind legalities won't spare you in my book for conspiring to tear apart the fabric of the federal system.

I opposed every secessionist effort from 2009 onwards, regardless of region or party. I GOTVed against Oakvale's attempt at NE secession in 2015, I aggressively pushed back against DFW's secessionist saber rattling in 2017 and I urged my party members to aggressively GOTV against the Lincolnite effort. When Fhtagn pined for Alaskan Independence (even as a Federalist and as my vice chair) I also made sure to crap all over idea (from the money dependence, to Russian influence that it would bring to the region).

Whenever there is a crisis, there is always some group of people, usually involving some mix of new and old, who step forward and posit that radicalism is the solution to the problem. Either in the form of radical centralism (abolishing the regions) or radical separatism (secessionist efforts), invariably these pose no structural improvements, nothing to address the root problems and offer only the temporary stir of the pot assuming they fail and the chaos wrought if they actually succeeded would be a disaster of biblical proportions. Radicalism is never the solution to the problem, radicalism, is the problem.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2021, 12:45:20 PM »

I would strongly urge restraint and caution before one transplants discord style "black future" memes or modified versions of such on the Atlas boards. These are not appropriate on this site.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
North Carolina Yankee
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Posts: 54,123
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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2021, 12:56:50 PM »
« Edited: October 19, 2021, 01:12:00 PM by Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee »

You mean the legal and constitutional effort to achieve autonomy in our region?

Hiding behind legalities won't spare you in my book for conspiring to tear apart the fabric of the federal system.

I opposed every secessionist effort from 2009 onwards, regardless of region or party. I GOTVed against Oakvale's attempt at NE secession in 2015, I aggressively pushed back against DFW's secessionist saber rattling in 2017 and I urged my party members to aggressively GOTV against the Lincolnite effort. When Fhtagn pined for Alaskan Independence (even as a Federalist and as my vice chair) I also made sure to crap all over idea (from the money dependence, to Russian influence that it would bring to the region).

Whenever there is a crisis, there is always some group of people, usually involving some mix of new and old, who step forward and posit that radicalism is the solution to the problem. Either in the form of radical centralism (abolishing the regions) or radical separatism (secessionist efforts), invariably these pose no structural improvements, nothing to address the root problems and offer only the temporary stir of the pot assuming they fail and the chaos wrought if they actually succeeded would be a disaster of biblical proportions. Radicalism is never the solution to the problem, radicalism, is the problem.

I see nothing relevant here except deflecting away from the Court's failures to operate independently and the atrocious conduct of its members.

The only "threat to judicial independence" has been as Lumine put it in his satirical rag "the botched response to the inappropriate comments by Windjammer". Indeed we would not even be discussing this issue at all had not efforts to "overturn the action" been incorporated into the reactions to and condemnations of Windjammer's statements from the bench.

I would be keen to know in what ways the court failed to "operate independently". There are many legitimate criticisms, but this one is really strange and mind boggling. The test for such is "on who's behalf are they operating"? Typically a "failure of independence" comes in the from of executive or legislative branch meddling (case in point the threatened actions of Dwarven Dragon up until he realized said ruling was unanimous), or from some external political pressure of some sort.

During the 2013 situation you had the bulk of a political party seeking to remake the court's composition to get back at an adverse ruling and the success of such would make said court's independence decline in favor of servicing the interests of this movement. Likewise in 2015, with regards to Bacon King's appointment being blocked, the fear was that he would allow himself to become an agent of the radical movement and do their bidding from the bench in a way that could threaten the Convention or the reform movement. In both cases the administration (Nix in 2013 and Bore in 2015, were certainly on the side of those trying to jeopardize the independence of the court. And in the former case you had legislative action aiming towards achieving the remake of the court's composition).

Furthermore, claims of a "failure of independence" often pertain to the criticism that a justice will not operate independently of party establishment desires. This was leveled at Windjammer many times over the years and was leveled at me in 2016.

In either case (submitting to pressure of another branch/outside political force, or doing the bidding of a party establishment), the President, the likely majority in the Senate and the Labor establishment most definitely desired for LT to swing from the highest tree and as was pointed out by I think Adam or maybe Sev, that if the court had failed to demonstrate independence in its actions from the Labor line, LT would be on his way to old sparkey right now.

Lastly, assuming for the sake of argument there was such an influence on Windjammer (and possibly also on Gass who is long been seen as establishment Labor), it makes no sense why Bacon King and ILV would go along with it, since both have routinely operated independent of the Laborite establishment and ILV especially (also worthy of note that both were on opposite sides from Windjammer of the 2015 business as well).

So from the perspective of an "independent judiciary" there is no such reasonable complaint to be made here of Windjammer's ruling. Lack of Impartiality on the other hand, you could make a case for (but that doesn't explain the other four justices- see previous paragraph), but the accusation of a degradation of judicial independence requires Windjammer (and the whole court) to be operating at the behest of another branch or external political force, or to be taking orders from party elites, and none of these make sense in the context of the ruling issued.
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