Office of Oakvale, attorney at law

[windjammer]

Oakvale,
You have spent all your atlasian career violently harassing people through the IRC. If really you were so concerned about "violent mobs" or whatever bull**** point you are trying to make, you should have first acknowledged how s*itty you behavior was when you were still active and ask for forgiveness.

Like you I'm certainly no stranger to rough and tumble politics (with a caveat - I don't think I ever sounded so much like Tony Soprano). Indeed, if I'd seen your, er, statement, in any other context I doubt I'd have so much as batted an eye.

But what we have here is a situation where the sitting Chief Justice of the Supreme Court threatened like a low-rent thug, from the bench, to destroy the careers of those who dared to criticise the Court's handling of a politically prominent case.

How on earth could anyone possiblynow believe the Court is impartial and operates without prejudice? How are any of your internal critics ever going to bring a case to your Court without constant fear of bias or brutal retribution? Do you really not comprehend the problem here?

Not at all. I stand by my comments. I believe the supreme court should be an independent institution and that its members shouldn't be threatened by impeachments when a ruling doesn't please to some players.

Saying that you stand by such threats as the ones you made is not a good argument for the independence of the court at all.

It is a very good argument. I'm going to fight hard against anyone impeaching members of the court because they want a ruling to be overturned.

[Never Made it to Graceland]

The evidence mounts.

[WD]

The evidence mounts.

“I’m going to fight hard....”

It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

[windjammer]

The evidence mounts.

“I’m going to fight hard....”

It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

Well to be fully Frank with you, I did enjoy it quite a bit lol.

[Oakvale]

The evidence mounts.

“I’m going to fight hard....”

It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

Well to be fully Frank with you, I did enjoy it quite a bit lol.

My God...

[SevenEleven]

If the Court were a partisan vehicle, Louisville Thunder would not be holding office right now. I don't agree with the courts decision to let this criminal roam freely, nor do I think the Chief Justice's stubbornness towards those who disagree is the best approach (certainly, we all can have our opinions and be less combative about it). But this issue is not about the Chief Justice whatsoever.

[Adam Griffin]

C'mon Oakie, literally one of my first actions after returning to the Presidency in 2019 was scheming behind the scenes to make sure BK got his seat all those years later...after you tried to put him on the court in the final weeks in 2015 before I became President during Bore's lameduck and I wanted to install Dear Sweet Jambles.

They're both on the court now! Can't we just let bygones be bygones? We all know the Court is a travesty of partisan control: just because I have the biggest fingerprints on a 4-year majority-Liebor Court doesn't mean we didn't all get what we wanted in the end!

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The evidence mounts.

“I’m going to fight hard....”

It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a justice saying "I am going to fight hard to preserve the independence of the court", which considering the comments of Dwarven Dragon, where for a decent period was literally calling for impeachment for "results oriented purposes" (as in desiring to reshape the court to achieve his desired ruling at least until he learned said ruling was unanimous-oops) is hardly to be brushed off.

That is different from the comments he said threatening careers etc, which are unacceptable.

For historical example, Ebowed, bgwah and Opebo fought back against Adam Griffin's Laborite hordes when they aggressively sought to reshape the court's composition following their adverse ruling in the case over the June 2013 Pacific business.

[Never Made it to Graceland]

The evidence mounts.

“I’m going to fight hard....”

It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a justice saying "I am going to fight hard to preserve the independence of the court", which considering the comments of Dwarven Dragon, where for a decent period was literally calling for impeachment for "results oriented purposes" (as in desiring to reshape the court to achieve his desired ruling at least until he learned said ruling was unanimous-oops) is hardly to be brushed off.

That is different from the comments he said threatening careers etc, which are unacceptable.

For historical example, Ebowed, bgwah and Opebo fought back against Adam Griffin's Laborite hordes when they aggressively sought to reshape the court's composition following their adverse ruling in the case over the June 2013 Pacific business.

Oh, brother. Be careful you don't pull a muscle reaching this hard.

[Never Made it to Graceland]

C'mon Oakie, literally one of my first actions after returning to the Presidency in 2019 was scheming behind the scenes to make sure BK got his seat all those years later...after you tried to put him on the court in the final weeks in 2015 before I became President during Bore's lameduck and I wanted to install Dear Sweet Jambles.

They're both on the court now! Can't we just let bygones be bygones? We all know the Court is a travesty of partisan control: just because I have the biggest fingerprints on a 4-year majority-Liebor Court doesn't mean we didn't all get what we wanted in the end!

Pointing out the incompetence and sedition of the current Court has nothing to do with partisanship.

[windjammer]

C'mon Oakie, literally one of my first actions after returning to the Presidency in 2019 was scheming behind the scenes to make sure BK got his seat all those years later...after you tried to put him on the court in the final weeks in 2015 before I became President during Bore's lameduck and I wanted to install Dear Sweet Jambles.

They're both on the court now! Can't we just let bygones be bygones? We all know the Court is a travesty of partisan control: just because I have the biggest fingerprints on a 4-year majority-Liebor Court doesn't mean we didn't all get what we wanted in the end!

This incident involved a Federalist escaping justice. It has nothing to do with partisanship and everything to do with incompetence and/or non-transparency.

Escaping justice because of your incompetence*

[Never Made it to Graceland]

C'mon Oakie, literally one of my first actions after returning to the Presidency in 2019 was scheming behind the scenes to make sure BK got his seat all those years later...after you tried to put him on the court in the final weeks in 2015 before I became President during Bore's lameduck and I wanted to install Dear Sweet Jambles.

They're both on the court now! Can't we just let bygones be bygones? We all know the Court is a travesty of partisan control: just because I have the biggest fingerprints on a 4-year majority-Liebor Court doesn't mean we didn't all get what we wanted in the end!

This incident involved a Federalist escaping justice. It has nothing to do with partisanship and everything to do with incompetence and/or non-transparency.

Escaping justice because of your incompetence*

Nope, because of your conduct and ethical failures. You are a disturbed individual and frankly shouldn't be anywhere near the bench.

[Adam Griffin]

C'mon Oakie, literally one of my first actions after returning to the Presidency in 2019 was scheming behind the scenes to make sure BK got his seat all those years later...after you tried to put him on the court in the final weeks in 2015 before I became President during Bore's lameduck and I wanted to install Dear Sweet Jambles.

They're both on the court now! Can't we just let bygones be bygones? We all know the Court is a travesty of partisan control: just because I have the biggest fingerprints on a 4-year majority-Liebor Court doesn't mean we didn't all get what we wanted in the end!

Pointing out the incompetence and sedition of the current Court has nothing to do with partisanship.

Sure it does! It's why this won't go anywhere.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

C'mon Oakie, literally one of my first actions after returning to the Presidency in 2019 was scheming behind the scenes to make sure BK got his seat all those years later...after you tried to put him on the court in the final weeks in 2015 before I became President during Bore's lameduck and I wanted to install Dear Sweet Jambles.

They're both on the court now! Can't we just let bygones be bygones? We all know the Court is a travesty of partisan control: just because I have the biggest fingerprints on a 4-year majority-Liebor Court doesn't mean we didn't all get what we wanted in the end!

Pointing out the incompetence and sedition of the current Court has nothing to do with partisanship.

Says the prosecutor who conveniently delayed his case until after the Lincolnite secession effort, which devoted extensive energies too I might add.

[Never Made it to Graceland]

C'mon Oakie, literally one of my first actions after returning to the Presidency in 2019 was scheming behind the scenes to make sure BK got his seat all those years later...after you tried to put him on the court in the final weeks in 2015 before I became President during Bore's lameduck and I wanted to install Dear Sweet Jambles.

They're both on the court now! Can't we just let bygones be bygones? We all know the Court is a travesty of partisan control: just because I have the biggest fingerprints on a 4-year majority-Liebor Court doesn't mean we didn't all get what we wanted in the end!

Pointing out the incompetence and sedition of the current Court has nothing to do with partisanship.

Says the prosecutor who conveniently delayed his case until after the Lincolnite secession effort, which devoted extensive energies too I might add.

You mean the legal and constitutional effort to achieve autonomy in our region? Explain to me how you guys allowing someone who arguably broke RL law against an opposing voter to continue to participate in Atlasia and your judge having a meltdown on the bench threatening all his opponents is on that level in any way.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

C'mon Oakie, literally one of my first actions after returning to the Presidency in 2019 was scheming behind the scenes to make sure BK got his seat all those years later...after you tried to put him on the court in the final weeks in 2015 before I became President during Bore's lameduck and I wanted to install Dear Sweet Jambles.

They're both on the court now! Can't we just let bygones be bygones? We all know the Court is a travesty of partisan control: just because I have the biggest fingerprints on a 4-year majority-Liebor Court doesn't mean we didn't all get what we wanted in the end!

Pointing out the incompetence and sedition of the current Court has nothing to do with partisanship.

Says the prosecutor who conveniently delayed his case until after the Lincolnite secession effort, which devoted extensive energies too I might add.

You mean the legal and constitutional effort to achieve autonomy in our region? Explain to me how you guys allowing someone who arguably broke RL law against an opposing voter to continue to participate in Atlasia and your judge having a meltdown on the bench threatening all his opponents is on that level in any way.

Did you delay the case intentionally so you could devote your time to the secessionist effort?

[WD]

The evidence mounts.

“I’m going to fight hard....”

It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a justice saying "I am going to fight hard to preserve the independence of the court", which considering the comments of Dwarven Dragon, where for a decent period was literally calling for impeachment for "results oriented purposes" (as in desiring to reshape the court to achieve his desired ruling at least until he learned said ruling was unanimous-oops) is hardly to be brushed off.

That is different from the comments he said threatening careers etc, which are unacceptable.

For historical example, Ebowed, bgwah and Opebo fought back against Adam Griffin's Laborite hordes when they aggressively sought to reshape the court's composition following their adverse ruling in the case over the June 2013 Pacific business.

From my interpretation, the Justice is saying he will “fight for the independence of the court” in response to Crane and myself, as if criticism of the Court is adjacent to attempting to usurp the independence of the judiciary. Simply put, an utterly absurd statement to make, and one that only strengthens the argument against him.

I assume you are referring to these comments by Wulfric?

Backtrack on this decision and your threats and let the trial go forward. That is the only way you will secure your future at this stage.

Speaking for myself, I most definitely don’t think the Court has any outside obligation to reverse decisions it has made. But backtracking and apologizing for the threats made would certainly be in order.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

The evidence mounts.

“I’m going to fight hard....”

It would be funny if it weren’t so sad.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a justice saying "I am going to fight hard to preserve the independence of the court", which considering the comments of Dwarven Dragon, where for a decent period was literally calling for impeachment for "results oriented purposes" (as in desiring to reshape the court to achieve his desired ruling at least until he learned said ruling was unanimous-oops) is hardly to be brushed off.

That is different from the comments he said threatening careers etc, which are unacceptable.

For historical example, Ebowed, bgwah and Opebo fought back against Adam Griffin's Laborite hordes when they aggressively sought to reshape the court's composition following their adverse ruling in the case over the June 2013 Pacific business.

From my interpretation, the Justice is saying he will “fight for the independence of the court” in response to Crane and myself, as if criticism of the Court is adjacent to attempting to usurp the independence of the judiciary. Simply put, an utterly absurd statement to make, and one that only strengthens the argument against him.

I assume you are referring to these comments by Wulfric?

Backtrack on this decision and your threats and let the trial go forward. That is the only way you will secure your future at this stage.

Speaking for myself, I most definitely don’t think the Court has any outside obligation to reverse decisions it has made. But backtracking and apologizing for the threats made would certainly be in order.

Dwarven made other statements inferring that "Impeachment of Windjammer would be a first step to reverse the ruling", until Bacon King and ILV divulged that it was unanimous.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You mean the legal and constitutional effort to achieve autonomy in our region?

Hiding behind legalities won't spare you in my book for conspiring to tear apart the fabric of the federal system.

I opposed every secessionist effort from 2009 onwards, regardless of region or party. I GOTVed against Oakvale's attempt at NE secession in 2015, I aggressively pushed back against DFW's secessionist saber rattling in 2017 and I urged my party members to aggressively GOTV against the Lincolnite effort. When Fhtagn pined for Alaskan Independence (even as a Federalist and as my vice chair) I also made sure to crap all over idea (from the money dependence, to Russian influence that it would bring to the region).

Whenever there is a crisis, there is always some group of people, usually involving some mix of new and old, who step forward and posit that radicalism is the solution to the problem. Either in the form of radical centralism (abolishing the regions) or radical separatism (secessionist efforts), invariably these pose no structural improvements, nothing to address the root problems and offer only the temporary stir of the pot assuming they fail and the chaos wrought if they actually succeeded would be a disaster of biblical proportions. Radicalism is never the solution to the problem, radicalism, is the problem.

[Never Made it to Graceland]

You mean the legal and constitutional effort to achieve autonomy in our region?

Hiding behind legalities won't spare you in my book for conspiring to tear apart the fabric of the federal system.

I opposed every secessionist effort from 2009 onwards, regardless of region or party. I GOTVed against Oakvale's attempt at NE secession in 2015, I aggressively pushed back against DFW's secessionist saber rattling in 2017 and I urged my party members to aggressively GOTV against the Lincolnite effort. When Fhtagn pined for Alaskan Independence (even as a Federalist and as my vice chair) I also made sure to crap all over idea (from the money dependence, to Russian influence that it would bring to the region).

Whenever there is a crisis, there is always some group of people, usually involving some mix of new and old, who step forward and posit that radicalism is the solution to the problem. Either in the form of radical centralism (abolishing the regions) or radical separatism (secessionist efforts), invariably these pose no structural improvements, nothing to address the root problems and offer only the temporary stir of the pot assuming they fail and the chaos wrought if they actually succeeded would be a disaster of biblical proportions. Radicalism is never the solution to the problem, radicalism, is the problem.

I see nothing relevant here except deflecting away from the Court's failures to operate independently and the atrocious conduct of its members.

[windjammer]

C'mon Oakie, literally one of my first actions after returning to the Presidency in 2019 was scheming behind the scenes to make sure BK got his seat all those years later...after you tried to put him on the court in the final weeks in 2015 before I became President during Bore's lameduck and I wanted to install Dear Sweet Jambles.

They're both on the court now! Can't we just let bygones be bygones? We all know the Court is a travesty of partisan control: just because I have the biggest fingerprints on a 4-year majority-Liebor Court doesn't mean we didn't all get what we wanted in the end!

This incident involved a Federalist escaping justice. It has nothing to do with partisanship and everything to do with incompetence and/or non-transparency.

Escaping justice because of your incompetence*

Nope, because of your conduct and ethical failures. You are a disturbed individual and frankly shouldn't be anywhere near the bench.

The ruling unanimously ruled that you filed a lawsuit way too late that made it unconstitutional. Whether or not I'm a "disturbed" individual doesn't matter in the outcome.

[GM Team Member and Senator WB]

I don't agree with the courts decision to let this criminal roam freely,

snip

You will be in jail once the AFP ignites the fires of ATLASIAN FUTURE

[Former President tack50]

C'mon Oakie, literally one of my first actions after returning to the Presidency in 2019 was scheming behind the scenes to make sure BK got his seat all those years later...after you tried to put him on the court in the final weeks in 2015 before I became President during Bore's lameduck and I wanted to install Dear Sweet Jambles.

They're both on the court now! Can't we just let bygones be bygones? We all know the Court is a travesty of partisan control: just because I have the biggest fingerprints on a 4-year majority-Liebor Court doesn't mean we didn't all get what we wanted in the end!

This incident involved a Federalist escaping justice. It has nothing to do with partisanship and everything to do with incompetence and/or non-transparency.

Escaping justice because of your Tack's incompetence*

FTFY

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

I would strongly urge restraint and caution before one transplants discord style "black future" memes or modified versions of such on the Atlas boards. These are not appropriate on this site.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

You mean the legal and constitutional effort to achieve autonomy in our region?

Hiding behind legalities won't spare you in my book for conspiring to tear apart the fabric of the federal system.

I opposed every secessionist effort from 2009 onwards, regardless of region or party. I GOTVed against Oakvale's attempt at NE secession in 2015, I aggressively pushed back against DFW's secessionist saber rattling in 2017 and I urged my party members to aggressively GOTV against the Lincolnite effort. When Fhtagn pined for Alaskan Independence (even as a Federalist and as my vice chair) I also made sure to crap all over idea (from the money dependence, to Russian influence that it would bring to the region).

Whenever there is a crisis, there is always some group of people, usually involving some mix of new and old, who step forward and posit that radicalism is the solution to the problem. Either in the form of radical centralism (abolishing the regions) or radical separatism (secessionist efforts), invariably these pose no structural improvements, nothing to address the root problems and offer only the temporary stir of the pot assuming they fail and the chaos wrought if they actually succeeded would be a disaster of biblical proportions. Radicalism is never the solution to the problem, radicalism, is the problem.

I see nothing relevant here except deflecting away from the Court's failures to operate independently and the atrocious conduct of its members.

The only "threat to judicial independence" has been as Lumine put it in his satirical rag "the botched response to the inappropriate comments by Windjammer". Indeed we would not even be discussing this issue at all had not efforts to "overturn the action" been incorporated into the reactions to and condemnations of Windjammer's statements from the bench.

I would be keen to know in what ways the court failed to "operate independently". There are many legitimate criticisms, but this one is really strange and mind boggling. The test for such is "on who's behalf are they operating"? Typically a "failure of independence" comes in the from of executive or legislative branch meddling (case in point the threatened actions of Dwarven Dragon up until he realized said ruling was unanimous), or from some external political pressure of some sort.

During the 2013 situation you had the bulk of a political party seeking to remake the court's composition to get back at an adverse ruling and the success of such would make said court's independence decline in favor of servicing the interests of this movement. Likewise in 2015, with regards to Bacon King's appointment being blocked, the fear was that he would allow himself to become an agent of the radical movement and do their bidding from the bench in a way that could threaten the Convention or the reform movement. In both cases the administration (Nix in 2013 and Bore in 2015, were certainly on the side of those trying to jeopardize the independence of the court. And in the former case you had legislative action aiming towards achieving the remake of the court's composition).

Furthermore, claims of a "failure of independence" often pertain to the criticism that a justice will not operate independently of party establishment desires. This was leveled at Windjammer many times over the years and was leveled at me in 2016.

In either case (submitting to pressure of another branch/outside political force, or doing the bidding of a party establishment), the President, the likely majority in the Senate and the Labor establishment most definitely desired for LT to swing from the highest tree and as was pointed out by I think Adam or maybe Sev, that if the court had failed to demonstrate independence in its actions from the Labor line, LT would be on his way to old sparkey right now.

Lastly, assuming for the sake of argument there was such an influence on Windjammer (and possibly also on Gass who is long been seen as establishment Labor), it makes no sense why Bacon King and ILV would go along with it, since both have routinely operated independent of the Laborite establishment and ILV especially (also worthy of note that both were on opposite sides from Windjammer of the 2015 business as well).

So from the perspective of an "independent judiciary" there is no such reasonable complaint to be made here of Windjammer's ruling. Lack of Impartiality on the other hand, you could make a case for (but that doesn't explain the other four justices- see previous paragraph), but the accusation of a degradation of judicial independence requires Windjammer (and the whole court) to be operating at the behest of another branch or external political force, or to be taking orders from party elites, and none of these make sense in the context of the ruling issued.