LC 10.4 Lincoln Election Law Act Amendment of 2021

[KaiserDave]

1. Moving implementation post election
Nay

2. Reducing post threshold to 30
Abstain

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

I still think this has serious constitutional issues and may be struck down by the courts, but that being said, I do respect the sponsor of this bill for being open to multiple changes, and acknowledge this bill is far fairer than what it started out as. In recognition of this, and considering my position as the conservative candidate for Senate, I will abstain from the final passage vote if my vote is not decisive.

[KaiserDave]

By a vote of 3-2, post election implementation fails

By a vote of 3-1-1, 30 vote threshold passes

[KaiserDave]

AN ACT
To contain and adequately regulate off-site recruitment

Section 1; Title
1. This act may be cited as the Lincoln Election Law Act Amendment of 2021
Section 2; Amendment
1. The following section is added to of the Consolidated Lincoln Election Law Act-
"[New section]-Validity requirements
1. A registered voter shall only be eligible to vote in elections and referendums within Lincoln if their account was established at least five hundred and eighty-eight hours (3.5 weeks) prior to the opening of voting, along with the voter having met all other federal validity requirements."
2. This regulation shall not apply to posters with 30 posts or more, provided that they meet the federal requirements for voting
Section 3; Implementation
1. This act shall take effect immediately upon its passage into law.

Without objection let's move to a final vote. Unless there are further amendments (which I don't reject, but we should get an up-down vote on this soon)?

[S019]

Reiterating my move for a final vote

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

AN ACT
To contain and adequately regulate off-site recruitment

Section 1; Title
1. This act may be cited as the Lincoln Election Law Act Amendment of 2021
Section 2; Amendment
1. The following section is added to of the Consolidated Lincoln Election Law Act-
"[New section]-Validity requirements
1. A registered voter shall only be eligible to vote in elections and referendums within Lincoln if their account was established at least five hundred and eighty-eight hours (3.5 weeks) prior to the opening of voting, along with the voter having met all other federal validity requirements."
2. This regulation shall not apply to posters with over 30 posts or more, provided that they meet the federal requirements for voting
Section 3; Implementation
1. This act shall take effect immediately upon its passage into law.

Without objection let's move to a final vote. Unless there are further amendments (which I don't reject, but we should get an up-down vote on this soon)?

My passed amendment as proposed here eliminated the word "over" above: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=429348.msg7949452#msg7949452

with the word over, it would be a 31 post requirement which isn't what the Council just approved.

[KaiserDave]

AN ACT
To contain and adequately regulate off-site recruitment

Section 1; Title
1. This act may be cited as the Lincoln Election Law Act Amendment of 2021
Section 2; Amendment
1. The following section is added to of the Consolidated Lincoln Election Law Act-
"[New section]-Validity requirements
1. A registered voter shall only be eligible to vote in elections and referendums within Lincoln if their account was established at least five hundred and eighty-eight hours (3.5 weeks) prior to the opening of voting, along with the voter having met all other federal validity requirements."
2. This regulation shall not apply to posters with over 30 posts or more, provided that they meet the federal requirements for voting
Section 3; Implementation
1. This act shall take effect immediately upon its passage into law.

Without objection let's move to a final vote. Unless there are further amendments (which I don't reject, but we should get an up-down vote on this soon)?

My passed amendment as proposed here eliminated the word "over" above: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=429348.msg7949452#msg7949452

with the word over, it would be a 31 post requirement which isn't what the Council just approved.

Edited thank you

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

One Last Amendment, and then we can have an immediate up or down vote:

AN ACT
To contain and adequately regulate off-site recruitment

Section 1; Title
1. This act may be cited as the Lincoln Election Law Act Amendment of 2021
Section 2; Amendment
1. The following section is added to of the Consolidated Lincoln Election Law Act-
"[New section]-Validity requirements
1. A registered voter shall only be eligible to vote in elections and referendums within Lincoln if their account was established at least five hundred and eighty-eight four hundred and twenty hours (3.52.5 weeks) prior to the opening of voting, along with the voter having met all other federal validity requirements."
2. This regulation shall not apply to posters with 30 posts or more, provided that they meet the federal requirements for voting
Section 3; Implementation
1. This act shall take effect immediately upon its passage into law.

[S019]

I already moved for a final vote, I believe this amendment is out of order


(In case this isn't case, I will object to the amendment, if needed)

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

This reminds me so much of 2009 and early 2010.

Answering offsite recruitment with rank disenfranchisement at this point in a cycle is a horrendous move that exceeds the infamous HAEV in terms of over reaction and sets a very bad precedent for future incumbent majorities to change the rules right before an election. Think about that, think about how this could be abused in the future.

As bad as specter of off site recruitment, it pails in comparison to the damage that can be done and has been done to this game in the past by exclusivity crusades whereby one group of people gets to determine who is fit and proper to play this game. At some point reasonable measures to address that problem stop, and "AtlasforumIRC levels of toxicity" begins. A lot of those people who played a big part in the radical movement in 2015, who were here back in 2009 and 2010, were some of the biggest proponents of the HAEV and harsh eligibility standards, and it feeds into an elitist mindset that when taken to its extreme ends, help produced some components of the 2015 situation and Bloody July.

I am sure Ishan has that thread from two years ago where I was arguing with Bore handy, in that I examined the divide between those who favored a smaller game versus those who favored a large game, and while I respect those who think recent surges in membership (by recent like last 3 years) have been problematic and failed to benefit the game thanks to Discord and other factors, I will say just like anything, when you go too far with the solution you become the next game villain pushing it towards destruction. The Atlasforum types were the ones who opposed Napoleon's "destruction of the game", just a couple years prior to many of them pushing it towards doom. 

[Continential]

I am sure Ishan has that thread from two years ago where I was arguing with Bore handy, in that I examined the divide between those who favored a smaller game versus those who favored a large game, and while I respect those who think recent surges in membership (by recent like last 3 years) have been problematic and failed to benefit the game thanks to Discord and other factors, I will say just like anything, when you go too far with the solution you become the next game villain pushing it towards destruction. The Atlasforum types were the ones who opposed Napoleon's "destruction of the game", just a couple years prior to many of them pushing it towards doom.  

You call for Ishan and he appears.

So this is what Yankee was talking about when he argued with bore. I actually mentioned it last night when in #atlasforum's discord, the topic shifted to Atlasia

The biggest problem that I had with the radicals and with the reformists who tried to cater to their line of thinking was that it was built on the original premise that "the regions are failing", lets minimize their foot print in the game. It didn't seem like anyone every stopped to care to try and find out why the regions were struggling and to address the root causes.


Here is what I see as the major fault lines of division going back a decade:

1. Inclusive v. Exclusive
Inclusive: People like Tmth, Fritz and to some extent myself advocated for a larger player base to the tune of like 200 to 300 people, which we are actually at right now. This would in a pre-discord/pre-IRC world provide a lot more candidates and a lot more competition for office than what had previously been seen.  This would have been essential to the five region map becoming active and successful.
 
Exclusive: The likes of Al, Xahar, Hashemite (DA chair at the time) being members of the anti-JCP left and center, came to loath the concept of an expansive game. This was a shift for Xahar who had recruited a lot of people into the game including Duke and PiT in 2008. They felt more comfortable in a smaller game and this was the basis for the Democratic Alliance Party's  excessive requirements for membership (75 posts at one point) and the HAEV (purging zombie voters, declared unconstitutional) in 2010.


2. Regionalist V. Centralist
Regionalist: Myself, PiT, Tmth and others advocated for the restoration of a balance where the regions would have exclusive responsibility over some set of issues or policies and thus things of interest to stimulate activity on the regional level. This included preserving responsibility for them to administer Regional ratification booths and also included giving them administration of the Regional Senate elections, which could be combined with Governor and Chamber elections to boost activity, turnout and attention for those elections while drawing the Regional Senators into the political culture of the region. But it also required devolution or decentralization of policy areas like say social issues or education and health care.

Centralist: Al, Xahar, Snowguy, early Marokai Blue, Adam Griffin, TNF and et al. Because of a combination of ideological dogma, hopelessness with regards to the regions being successful and possibly other factors as well, they advocated the continued steady centralization of power in Nyman and pushing for federal gov't to absorb stuff as the regions declined, with some outright calling for the abolishing of the regions. This was the impetus behind abolishing Regional Senate seats in 2009, and centralizing administration of the ratification process as you say or replacing it with a nationwide popular vote in 2013-2014.


3. Dynamic Interaction v. Simplicity
Interactionist: People like Purple State, myself, to some extent Duke, Kalwejt, Marokai and later Truman and Blair advocating using positions like the SoIA to act as a go between both with Congress and also with the regions to work on passing domestic legislation. This also in the post-reset world would lead to the creation of the NSC for the purpose of a more advance foreign policy simulation, which from the right's perspective could occupy the federal gov't and help to avert some of the centralism mentioned above. The VP would be used to help keep Congress moving by administering his own threads, some of which were assigned to be for administration agenda items. Central to this is an active and involved Game Moderator that people respect and listen to, the first Reform Movement I helped was the 2009 GM Reform effort which included myself, Purple State and Vern. Lastly the creation of the 2012-2013 Congressional Committee system supported by myself, Kalwejt and Napoleon (ironic because Napoleon actually got investigated by them).

Reductionists? (Not sure what to call this because Simplists sounds terrible): Oakvale, Averroes Nix, Adam, yourself (Bore), TNF, Lumine  and DFW at points and also Truman and myself ironically on a much more limited basis though: Generally supported elimination of the Vice President and Secretary of the Internal Affairs, the elimination of the NSC (Cough dfw cough), removal of the VP's role in the Senate/Congress, and the elimination of the Game Moderator. And finally of course the elimination of the congressional committees by Nix, TJ and a few others in 2013. Truman counts because of his desire to keep the Constitution's language simple and plain and I count because of my shared concerns with Adam about office creation post-reset. I also voted for I think all of your omnibus repeal bills in the Senate.  


Generally speaking, I have always wanted a larger game, with strong regions and a system of simple but present dynamic interaction between Congress and the President, The Administration and the regions and everyone with the GM. This system would keep the regions active, and generally be balanced and stable. Until 2015, I was convinced that the five region map could be saved just be better implementing this model. Attempts at implementing this model though were always blocked by centralists and their "reformer allies".

This is why I always balked at being labeled an obstructionist of reform because I have always been for reform, but as the saying goes in today's politics in game, "Everyone wants reform, no one wants your reform though". People like Marokai even embraced pro-regional reforms, he pushed to give Regional Senate elections to the regions for instance, which was a 180 from his position in 2009, when he tried to kill them.

[Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee]

So this is what Yankee was talking about when he argued with bore. I actually mentioned it last night when in #atlasforum's discord, the topic shifted to Atlasia

What was the reaction?

[Continential]

So this is what Yankee was talking about when he argued with bore. I actually mentioned it last night when in #atlasforum's discord, the topic shifted to Atlasia

What was the reaction?

I'll probably edit it in a few hours when I get on discord again but there really wasn't a reaction as the topic quickly shifted to reaction to apparently Grassroots's horrible us political ideology county map and how it would be in foreign countries and how bad the map would be.

Edit: When they talked about you, they talked about how long you served and it would be like 100something years in RL if Atlasia was RL, presuming 1 month is 1 year.

[KaiserDave]

We already have a motion for a final vote I'm afraid Councillor

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Let's proceed with the vote then

[KaiserDave]

With that, let's vote. Voting begins now.

AYE

[S019]

AYE

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

 Objection to motion to move to voting procedure.

[S019]

Objection to motion to move to voting procedure.

You can't do this while the vote is ongoing, the time to do this was like 24 hrs ago

[Secretary of State Liberal Hack]

Nay

[Brother Jonathan]

Aye

[Attorney General, LGC Speaker, and Former PPT Dwarven Dragon]

Abstain

[KaiserDave]

By a vote of 3-1-1 this passes
Paging the governor....

[Grumpier Than Thou]

Glad we were able to come to an agreement on this.

[fhtagn]

Looks like there's 3 people in the council and a governor who would be of greater service to the region by resigning and never holding office again.