HB 28-11: Higher Requirements Act (Passed)
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  HB 28-11: Higher Requirements Act (Passed)
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Author Topic: HB 28-11: Higher Requirements Act (Passed)  (Read 2769 times)
Poirot
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« Reply #50 on: February 21, 2021, 03:00:12 PM »

nay
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« Reply #51 on: February 22, 2021, 12:39:27 PM »

NAY
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YE
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« Reply #52 on: February 22, 2021, 07:01:52 PM »

Nay.

Recent developments have forced my hand here in terms of somewhat favoring the first provision but in terms of validity I'm fine with the status quo.
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Sestak
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« Reply #53 on: February 23, 2021, 11:09:57 AM »

Doing so would alter the bill to clearly favor registration requirements over activity requirements, which I do not believe is a good solution. Using activity requirements for voting can prevent bloating of the game with obscene amounts of recruits without scaring away new members of the forum who wish to participate. Any off-site recruit or whatever that does not meet the activity requirements would be simply rendered irrelevant. Those who show an active interest would be able to vote.

What this of course ignores is that Atlasia is, fundamentally, a game for Atlas users. It was initially  built as the mock government for the Atlas community and to this day is intrinsically linked with the forum's at-large userbase. Under your proposal, however, this notion is eradicated. A longtime Atlas user who has a slightly quiet month or two will suddenly find themselves ineligible, while (as we've seen), someone can ask a number of non-Atlas users to make an account and quickly make [n] posts as a favor to them, then register and then come back a week later to vote.

A registration requirement is the easiest way to fix this: set the requirement to be a number of posts that's too high for someone to make just "as a favor" to someone else to vote for them in the game; rather, it's a number of posts that demonstrates an at least somewhat active interest in the forum, its discussion, and its community. We've seen that people are willing to make 15 posts as a favor; however I highly doubt the uninterested would be even remotely willing to make 50.

Setting the similarly scaled requirements as activity requirements - say 50 posts in 8 weeks - then this is prohibitive on even a number of regular Atlas users. If you look at this most recent election under this rule? Windjammer, who was elected president at it, would be invalid. Muaddib, an incumbent house rep, invalid. Fhtagn, invalid. So on and so forth.

Thus using solely a recent activity requirement cannot, alone, ensure that the participants in this game are all genuinely committed users of the forum without making the requirement objectively ridiculous - a robust initial registration requirement is a necessity as well.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #54 on: February 23, 2021, 01:53:40 PM »

Seeing as the OP originated from Ishan, if I read this correctly, would I be correct in presuming that the original numbers are pulled from pre-reset Atlasia? They look familiar, certainly the 50.

Anyway as a follow on to this, it is worth noting that we started 2010 with 50 and the HAEV and ended it with lowered eligibility/registration requirement numbers (I think teens or twenties) and a bipartisan committee tasked with recruiting people lead by President Fritz, with Tmth as one of the members. 2010 was rather bad for activity, precisely because we went too far in response to Hamilton in 2009. I was part of that problem, I even voted for the HAEV myself and I don't want us to repeat the same mistake of over correction we did then.
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YE
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« Reply #55 on: February 23, 2021, 01:54:40 PM »

What exactly was HAEV specifically?
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Former President tack50
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« Reply #56 on: February 23, 2021, 02:29:38 PM »


To add to this, another requirement that could very easily be added is an account age requirement. Simply require any accounts that join Atlasia to be 2 months old or whatever, which is not that long.

That basically kills offsite registration for anyone who attempts it in the future. Any offsite recruits that already have an account cannot be kicked without very complex rules (like requiring validity posts to be spread over time and not concentrated on a single day; a requirement that would be extremely annoying for Peebs to check). But that (along with your proposals) would kill any future attempts at offsite recruiting.
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SevenEleven
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« Reply #57 on: February 23, 2021, 05:14:36 PM »

The amendment fails, debate shall resume.
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YE
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« Reply #58 on: February 23, 2021, 05:17:32 PM »

New amendment(s) incoming.
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YE
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« Reply #59 on: February 23, 2021, 08:39:50 PM »

Ok before I introduce an amendment to an account age requirement to post validity add I should note we have 2 bills amending the 2019 versions of the Census Act and the FEA. Should we just have 1 bill amending one and 1 bill amending the other just to make record keeping easier?

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SevenEleven
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« Reply #60 on: February 23, 2021, 08:42:04 PM »

Ok before I introduce an amendment to an account age requirement to post validity add I should note we have 2 bills amending the 2019 versions of the Census Act and the FEA. Should we just have 1 bill amending one and 1 bill amending the other just to make record keeping easier?



I think it should be fine, the incoming administration seems to place a high priority on record keeping so we can have footnotes on the amended laws.
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Sestak
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« Reply #61 on: February 23, 2021, 11:19:05 PM »

Ok before I introduce an amendment to an account age requirement to post validity add I should note we have 2 bills amending the 2019 versions of the Census Act and the FEA. Should we just have 1 bill amending one and 1 bill amending the other just to make record keeping easier?



I will be writing up an amendment to this to ensure proper wiki keeping with both acts (with one copy original, one copy up to date).
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #62 on: February 23, 2021, 11:24:43 PM »

What exactly was HAEV specifically?

Thanos Act basically but a committee instead of one person.
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YE
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« Reply #63 on: February 23, 2021, 11:28:35 PM »

What exactly was HAEV specifically?

Thanos Act basically but a committee instead of one person.

Yikes. Two bad things (tbf the Thanos Act was initially a meme though I have no idea if some of our newer players recognize this) put together.
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Continential
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« Reply #64 on: February 24, 2021, 10:02:15 AM »

What exactly was HAEV specifically?
A commission to purge zombies off the rolls.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #65 on: February 24, 2021, 01:03:30 PM »

What exactly was HAEV specifically?
A commission to purge zombies off the rolls.

https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=109507.0
https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=107289.0
https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=110577.0
https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=113152.0
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YE
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« Reply #66 on: February 25, 2021, 09:52:57 PM »

Current text is this so the record is straight.
Quote
Increasing Requirements Act
Quote
Section 3, Part 8, of the Census Act of 2019 is amended as follows
Quote
Section 3. Registration
8.In order to be eligible to register, a poster’s Atlas Forum account must have been registered for at least one hundred and sixty-eight hours and must have accumulated at least fifteen fifty posts.
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YE
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« Reply #67 on: February 25, 2021, 10:04:47 PM »

Amendment:
 
Quote
Increasing Requirements Act
Quote
Section 3, Part 8, of the Census Act of 2019 is amended as follows
Quote
Section 3. Registration
8.In order to be eligible to register, a poster’s Atlas Forum account must have been registered for at least one hundred and sixty-eight hours and must have accumulated at least fifteen fifty posts.
Section 4, Part 2, of the Federal Electoral Act of 2019 is amended as follows
Quote
Section 4. Voter Eligibility.
2. A registered voter shall only be eligible to vote in a federal election if they have made at least eight posts from their account in the fifty six days (eight weeks) immediately prior to the commencement of the election and if their account is at least forty-five (45) days old.

We can tweak the numbers around (I'd for sure lower from the 50 if this amendment passes) but rather than harping about off site recruitment on AFE and sounding like people who favor double standards, I'd rather try to fix this problem myself here or at least make it more difficult to bus people in offsite.
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Poirot
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« Reply #68 on: February 25, 2021, 10:13:39 PM »

I don't remember how much time it took me to make 15 posts and 50 posts. If you are not a prolific poster, more a lurker, it's a barrier to enter the game. I don't want to make a restrictive game. It's a game I prefer to be open and welcoming, not have the spirit of an exclusive club you have to wait in line for a long time to enter. If I were not in at the moment I am curious with my posting activity starting today how long would I have to go back to reach 50 posts outside Atlasia.  
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YE
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« Reply #69 on: February 25, 2021, 10:18:58 PM »

I don't remember how much time it took me to make 15 posts and 50 posts. If you are not a prolific poster, more a lurker, it's a barrier to enter the game. I don't want to make a restrictive game. It's a game I prefer to be open and welcoming, not have the spirit of an exclusive club you have to wait in line for a long time to enter. If I were not in at the moment I am curious with my posting activity starting today how long would I have to go back to reach 50 posts outside Atlasia.  

How many people have joined the game at 15-50 posts and actually stayed an extended period of time that weren't bused in off-site?
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Continential
The Op
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« Reply #70 on: February 25, 2021, 10:19:09 PM »

I don't remember how much time it took me to make 15 posts and 50 posts. If you are not a prolific poster, more a lurker, it's a barrier to enter the game. I don't want to make a restrictive game. It's a game I prefer to be open and welcoming, not have the spirit of an exclusive club you have to wait in line for a long time to enter. If I were not in at the moment I am curious with my posting activity starting today how long would I have to go back to reach 50 posts outside Atlasia.  
While during the NPC elections, you got 50 posts in a month, from 600 (June 2020 when he voted) to 650 posts ago, you have to go back to February 2020, so hypothetically, he would be disenfranchised even though he pays more attention to the game then 90% of it.
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Poirot
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« Reply #71 on: February 25, 2021, 10:36:53 PM »

I counted my last 15 posts outside Atlasia, from today I need to go back to July 29 2020.
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Joseph Cao
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« Reply #72 on: February 25, 2021, 11:12:08 PM »

I don't remember how much time it took me to make 15 posts and 50 posts. If you are not a prolific poster, more a lurker, it's a barrier to enter the game. I don't want to make a restrictive game. It's a game I prefer to be open and welcoming, not have the spirit of an exclusive club you have to wait in line for a long time to enter. If I were not in at the moment I am curious with my posting activity starting today how long would I have to go back to reach 50 posts outside Atlasia. 

How many people have joined the game at 15-50 posts and actually stayed an extended period of time that weren't bused in off-site?

I did.

(In fairness, I was at the higher end of that range (it was my 34th post). Still joined the forum and the game on my own though!)
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SevenEleven
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« Reply #73 on: February 25, 2021, 11:14:35 PM »

24 hours to object to the YE amendment.
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Joseph Cao
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« Reply #74 on: February 25, 2021, 11:15:41 PM »

May as well see what the whole House thinks of it.

Objection.
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