Woke American Ideas are a Threat, French leaders say

[CumbrianLefty]

It's okay, Europeans have their own equally stupid but probably more dangerous forms of identity politics.


Is anyone else a bit tired of how the word "woke" is being used now? What the hell does it even mean? Like "identity politics", it's another scare word or term that means whatever you want it to mean.

France has had its own Northern Ireland in Corsica. Brittany is kind of their Wales but with even worse linguistic discrimination.

And their Scotland is the Occitan areas on this comparison, presumably.

[CumbrianLefty]

The position isn't great in some parts of the UK, I agree.

But lets get this clear, we are still in a *much* better position on this than France is.

[CumbrianLefty]

So the Idea that the Muslims in the UK are the most Integrated in Europe is ridiculous, by any serious metric, unless you want to go by how many hijabis there are on the Bake Off or something.

Which might be a point worth making had anyone claimed that, but they didn't.

(of course I agree about our indulgence of jihadis pre-2005, but that's a slightly different thing)

[CumbrianLefty]

Yes, it stands to reason that policies intended to erase a group's identity provide evidence of superior "integration" if "integration" is defined specifically as the erasure of group identity. As a Muslim with no desire to marry outside my religious group, I suppose I am an example of the failure of integration.

Yes. This, but unironically. You are indeed a failure of integration for that

I would indeed define successful integration as you know, "behaving French", adopting French customs, speaking French at home, etc. There are definitely tons of different ways of "being French", but looking at urutzizu's statistics I would indeed consider that France is doing a much better job at integrating its muslim population than the UK; though I am open to statistics that show the opposite.

And no, it is not white nationalism to suggest that. To bring an Spanish example, there is a reason why black Cubans, Dominicans or Colombians are often considered to be better integrated than much whiter Moroccans. It is not a matter of race, it is a matter of culture technically.

Race does have a significant influence on integration, but I agree that culture is by far the most defining factor and inflicts majority of the conflicts.

And by “culture”, it’s usually (almost always) religion differences.

Siberia, China and Japan (mostly) have "no religion"?? Hmmm.

Yes they are largely secular, but on that basis most of W Europe should be grey as well.

[CumbrianLefty]

France forces migrants to integrate to its culture and customs which is the right approach, you shouldn't  bring in a backwards culture to a liberal western society and expect it to be tolerated.

You know what's "backwards"? Your attitude towards immigration.

Yes people from Muslim countries have a great culture and attitude!

Given what goes on in countries like India and Nepal, such as child marriage, slavery, religious violence, lynchings of dalits, or forcing women on their periods to live in a squalid huts outside of the main home, perhaps we should suppress South Asian cultures in the West as well then

Great Idea! South Asian culture is only slightly less worse than muslim culture.

Genuine question - why do you have a dark red avatar?

[CumbrianLefty]

Good for you. But you also think these things should only be for "white" people?

[CumbrianLefty]

Hmmm, even more intriguing

[CumbrianLefty]

The country that committed genocide as long ago as the 1950's doesn't like people to look introspectively at the link between race and religion and the normalised bigotry in society.

Are you talking about France or repeating Soviet propaganda?

Thought that was fairly clear tbh?

[CumbrianLefty]

Well, the French state being snotty about minority languages is hardly new at least