S.21.1-3: Regional Election Posting Requirements Act (Failed)
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  S.21.1-3: Regional Election Posting Requirements Act (Failed)
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Author Topic: S.21.1-3: Regional Election Posting Requirements Act (Failed)  (Read 1309 times)
tmthforu94
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« on: February 08, 2021, 04:20:03 PM »
« edited: February 23, 2021, 07:11:43 PM by tmthforu94 »

Quote
Regional Election Posting Requirements Act

Section 1
Section 2 of the Comprehensive Southern Electoral Act is hereby amended to read:
1. A registered voter shall only be eligible to vote in a Southern regional election if they have been registered continuously for at least one hundred and sixty-eight hours immediately prior to the commencement of the election.
2. A registered voter shall only be eligible to vote in a Southern regional election if they have made at least eight posts from their account in the fifty six days (eight weeks) immediately prior to the commencement of the election.

Section 2
This bill shall go into effect on March 1, 2021.

Sponsor: Tmth

48 hours minimum for debate.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2021, 04:25:53 PM »

This bill will put our voting requirements in alignment with the federal government. In Section 1, the first clause is already in effect, I just reworded it to align with the federal governments wording, which I think is easier to read.

Clause 2 is the big change - currently there are no posting or activity requirements. Recent actions in the presidential election has resulted in a number of new citizens whose only purpose on the forum is to vote in Atlasia elections (offsite recruits). That, and we have also seen a high number of "Discord zombies" who only pop on to vote. Adding this clause won't completely fix the problem - party bosses can still get their zombies to make the minimum 8 posts before the election starts like what happens in federal races. But it adds an extra layer of defense to keep this from occurring, rather than them being able to sent a voter a quick message once voting starts and that could be their only post in months. I've never been a fan of strict posting requirements, but at this point people are abusing the system and the game is straying away from it's intended purpose.

I don't really like changing the rules in the midst of an election, especially so close, which is why I added Section 2 to add an implementation date following the upcoming February elections.

I urge the Chamber to pass this and for the Governor to sign.
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Holy Unifying Centrist
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« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2021, 05:33:10 PM »

I don't see this regulation as necessary, honestly. I'd rather have as few restrictions as possible to make things easier for new players.

I oppose this bill as of now.
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« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2021, 07:42:12 PM »

I don't see this regulation as necessary, honestly. I'd rather have as few restrictions as possible to make things easier for new players.

I oppose this bill as of now.
that and lets be honest the region is sort of prone to low turn out to begin with
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2021, 07:45:50 PM »

If it is not necessary, please elaborate on how zombies and off-site recruits who only show up on the forum to vote is beneficial to the region and the game. It'd be nice to have a game that wasn't a battle of who can turnout the most zombies, but actually based on substance, activity and ideas. A new player who joins and wants to be involved should have no problem with making 8 posts in an 8 week span - this does not target them.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2021, 03:51:11 PM »

With a couple more offsite recruits added since this was brought to the floor, it reemphasizes the need to have basic posting requirements to vote in the region. Someone who is only showing up to vote is bound to fall of the federal rolls anyways because of ineligibility there, I don't see an argument why they should be able to keep voting in the South during that time when they have no forum involvement. This takes zombie voting to a whole new level.
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Holy Unifying Centrist
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« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2021, 08:55:56 PM »

With a couple more offsite recruits added since this was brought to the floor, it reemphasizes the need to have basic posting requirements to vote in the region. Someone who is only showing up to vote is bound to fall of the federal rolls anyways because of ineligibility there, I don't see an argument why they should be able to keep voting in the South during that time when they have no forum involvement. This takes zombie voting to a whole new level.

I still don't see this as an issue. One of my first posts on this forum was in Atlasia. I actually wanted to register in Atlasia as my first post, but saw that there were requirements first. It annoyed me at first, honestly. Just because a person signs up for Atlasia very quickly does not mean they will be a zombie voter.

I remain opposed to this bill because of my previous experience.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2021, 09:22:36 PM »

With a couple more offsite recruits added since this was brought to the floor, it reemphasizes the need to have basic posting requirements to vote in the region. Someone who is only showing up to vote is bound to fall of the federal rolls anyways because of ineligibility there, I don't see an argument why they should be able to keep voting in the South during that time when they have no forum involvement. This takes zombie voting to a whole new level.

I still don't see this as an issue. One of my first posts on this forum was in Atlasia. I actually wanted to register in Atlasia as my first post, but saw that there were requirements first. It annoyed me at first, honestly. Just because a person signs up for Atlasia very quickly does not mean they will be a zombie voter.

I remain opposed to this bill because of my previous experience.
If that is your issue with this, this changes nothing regarding that. Requirements to register to vote are controlled by the federal government, we have no say over that.
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Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)
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« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2021, 03:03:37 AM »

Adding this clause won't completely fix the problem...

I've never been a fan of strict posting requirements...


I'd be more interested in an active Chamber rather than a reform that won't "fix the problem".
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At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder
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« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2021, 03:23:31 AM »

Adding this clause won't completely fix the problem...

I've never been a fan of strict posting requirements...


I'd be more interested in an active Chamber rather than a reform that won't "fix the problem".
How is this about an "active Chamber?"
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2021, 03:24:24 AM »
« Edited: February 11, 2021, 03:28:51 AM by tmthforu94 »

Adding this clause won't completely fix the problem...

I've never been a fan of strict posting requirements...


I'd be more interested in an active Chamber rather than a reform that won't "fix the problem".
It's easy to sit by and complain from the sidelines, it seems that is what you do best. It's been quite a while since YOU have provided anything constructive to the region. I've written all three bills that the Chamber has debated this session, including important ones on COVID-19 regulations and vaccinations, but it is not my job to make delegates write legislation or to set the policy agenda for the session. And great job at taking my words out of context and lifting a small part of the quote, classy.
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At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder
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« Reply #11 on: February 11, 2021, 04:09:30 AM »

I'll give my public thoughts on the matter. I am aware of the situation involving offsite recruits recently, and there can be long term problems with it if it continues and gets reciprocated by the other side. The game has had zombie voting for a long time, and Discord has attracted the time and attention of members of the Atlasian community that would've spent more time posting on the forum in a different era. This seems to be at the center of exactly why this proposal isn't gaining much traction among the chamber. I understand all of the concerns,  and it is difficult to get to a consensus that pleases everyone.

I guess an alternative idea would be to also allow those who made 8 posts in the two months prior to the recent federal election to be able to vote in the January and July elections instead of having to be made valid again.
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Deep Dixieland Senator, Muad'dib (OSR MSR)
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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2021, 12:59:07 AM »

Adding this clause won't completely fix the problem...

I've never been a fan of strict posting requirements...


I'd be more interested in an active Chamber rather than a reform that won't "fix the problem".
It's easy to sit by and complain from the sidelines, it seems that is what you do best. It's been quite a while since YOU have provided anything constructive to the region. I've written all three bills that the Chamber has debated this session, including important ones on COVID-19 regulations and vaccinations, but it is not my job to make delegates write legislation or to set the policy agenda for the session. And great job at taking my words out of context and lifting a small part of the quote, classy.

TMTH I was not having a go at your level of activity. You're one of the most consistent delegates we have post wise. It was supposed to be a futility post not the FU post you've taken it as. This serves me right for getting distracted and having a million tabs open and not previewing my post.  I can understand why you took this the wrong way it was posted the wrong way which is my bad. Here is the Keyline I was supposed to be cutting and pasting:
Quote from: Muaddib's Missing Line, my bad
I'd be more more in favour of having posting requirements for delegates but that also "won't fix the problem".




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tmthforu94
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2021, 10:24:25 AM »

I guess an alternative idea would be to also allow those who made 8 posts in the two months prior to the recent federal election to be able to vote in the January and July elections instead of having to be made valid again.
Can you clarify this? I’m not sure I follow.
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At-Large Senator LouisvilleThunder
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« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2021, 02:23:51 PM »

I guess an alternative idea would be to also allow those who made 8 posts in the two months prior to the recent federal election to be able to vote in the January and July elections instead of having to be made valid again.
Can you clarify this? I’m not sure I follow.
What I meant was that if a voter got valid to vote if an election was held the previous month, then they should be able to vote in the Southern elections.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2021, 06:51:08 PM »

I guess an alternative idea would be to also allow those who made 8 posts in the two months prior to the recent federal election to be able to vote in the January and July elections instead of having to be made valid again.
Can you clarify this? I’m not sure I follow.
What I meant was that if a voter got valid to vote if an election was held the previous month, then they should be able to vote in the Southern elections.

Basically an extension of the validity window.
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Southern Senator North Carolina Yankee
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« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2021, 06:58:02 PM »

Wouldn't it make more sense to add an account age like Lincoln is doing rather than sacrifice the South's tradition of easier access. The 8 post requirement wasn't effective in addressing the Lincoln situation and it seems to me that implementing that here to solve this problem of off-site recruitment, seems inneffectual.

If the goal is to suppress discordification, you probably need 50 as the requirement since 8 hasn't halted it nationwide.

Either way you slice it the current text misses the mark.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2021, 07:18:18 PM »

Wouldn't it make more sense to add an account age like Lincoln is doing rather than sacrifice the South's tradition of easier access. The 8 post requirement wasn't effective in addressing the Lincoln situation and it seems to me that implementing that here to solve this problem of off-site recruitment, seems inneffectual.

If the goal is to suppress discordification, you probably need 50 as the requirement since 8 hasn't halted it nationwide.

Either way you slice it the current text misses the mark.
I'm open to the account age instead, thank you for that suggestion and I hope to hear from other Delegates on it as well. The current text isn't ideal but it is in line with federal policy and is better than what we have. Current regulations means someone can only be notified to vote and post no other time, but still be eligible in the South. This at least requires more consistent effort, and requiring some effort as an active poster curbs being able to get offsite recruits.

The buck really stops at federal policy, though, as that is the election that the party you lead is doing all of the offsite recruiting for. Hopefully something can come at the federal level from Congress that better addresses this problem, as anything the regions do is only a bandaid to the issue.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2021, 07:29:02 PM »

Offering an amendment in hopes of finding common ground based on the concerns made so far:
Quote
Regional Election Posting Requirements Act

Section 1
Section 2 of the Comprehensive Southern Electoral Act is hereby amended to read:
1. A registered voter shall only be eligible to vote in a Southern regional election if they have beentheir forum account has been registered continuously for at least one hundred and sixty-eight hours immediately prior to the commencement of the election.
2. A registered voter shall only be eligible to vote in a Southern regional election if they have made at least eight posts from their account in the fifty six days (eight weeks) immediately prior to the commencement of the election.

Section 2
This bill shall go into effect on March 1, 2021.

24 hours for objection.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2021, 02:58:48 PM »

The amendment is adopted.

Any further discussion or concerns, or is everyone supportive of a final vote?
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2021, 10:03:42 PM »

I am calling for a final vote. 24 hours to object.
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reagente
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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2021, 02:07:28 AM »

No objection from me.
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President Punxsutawney Phil
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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2021, 03:16:11 AM »

No objection either.
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tmthforu94
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« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2021, 01:46:36 PM »

With no objections, a final vote has started. Please vote Aye, Nay, or Abstain.



Aye!
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If my soul was made of stone
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« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2021, 01:48:20 PM »

AYE
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