Mrs. Presidente?

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Now that the USA has its first female Vice President, I wonder why the Constitution doesn't provide a female equivalence to the official title of the "President".

Unlike other languages, the English language is not known for its female word formations as equivalents to male/generic official titles and job titles (or adjectives in general); the grammatical term for that kind of word formation is "motion".

There are very few exemptions, though, such as:

blond ☞ blonde
handsome ☞ beautiful
actor ☞ actress
king ☞ queen
prince  ☞ princess
emperor ☞ empress
count ☞ countess
duke ☞ duchess
witcher/sorcerer ☞ witch/sorceress
villain ☞villainess

(Even the adjective gay is used for both men and women in the English language, which still seems strange to me, lol. )

Every language I know distinguishes between male and female office holders, for example:

🇫🇷 le président ☞ la présidente
🇫🇷 le chancelier ☞la chancelière

🇪🇸 el presidente ☞la presidenta
🇪🇸 el ministro ☞ la ministra

🇮🇹 il presidente ☞ la presidentessa
🇮🇹 il cancelliere ☞ la cancelliera
🇮🇹 il ministro ☞ la ministra

🇩🇪 der Präsident ☞ die Präsidentin
🇩🇪 der Kanzler ☞ die Kanzlerin
🇩🇪 der Minister ☞ die Ministerin

🇷🇺 импера́тор ☞ императри́ца
🇷🇺 президент ☞ президентша
🇷🇺 канцлер ☞ канцлерша

 emperator ☞ emperatrix
 senator ☞ senatrix
 cancellarius ☞cancellaria
 minister ☞ minstra

1.) Are there any attempts at the adoption of gender-sensitive language regarding official titles?
2.) What would the female motion look like?
3.) Would there have to be an amendment of the constitution in order to introduce the female motion of the title "President", or would a presidential order be sufficient?
4.) What are your thoughts about it?
5.) Who is the real First Lady of the US? Jill Biden or Kamala Harris? 🤷🏻

[H.E. VOLODYMYR ZELENKSYY]

Why would there be a female equivalent? Three of the five languages you mentioned at least are much more gendered than English.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Why would there be a female equivalent? Three of the five languages you mentioned at least are much more gendered than English.

I mean, if the USA were a monarchy, you would call your female head of state a queen instead of a king, wouldn't you?

[Arizona Iced Tea]

Madam President

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

Why would there be a female equivalent? Three of the five languages you mentioned at least are much more gendered than English.

I mean, if the USA were a monarchy, you would call your female head of state a queen instead of a king, wouldn't you?

Yes, because that's just how English works. It isn't like we say senatress or prime minisere or whatever. Most job titles aren't gendered.

[President Johnson]

Actually no. I always found -in in German and gendered texts annyoing.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Why would there be a female equivalent? Three of the five languages you mentioned at least are much more gendered than English.

I mean, if the USA were a monarchy, you would call your female head of state a queen instead of a king, wouldn't you?

Yes, because that's just how English works. It isn't like we say senatress or prime minisere or whatever. Most job titles aren't gendered.

Okay, I goddit. But what if President Biden wants his title to be gendered, especially since his deputy is female, what would it take him to achieve that? Just a presidential order, a bill that has to be approved by Congress, or even an amendment of the Constitution?

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Actually no. I always found -in in German and gendered texts annyoing.

Really? Despite you party affiliation?
What are your thoughts on the Gendersternchen, which has sparked fierce and emotional disputes over the last years?

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

By the way, this issue came into my mind when I was writing "President Le Pen" in another thread. That spelling looked so weird and false - in two regards - that I decided to start this topic.

[President Johnson]

Actually no. I always found -in in German and gendered texts annyoing.

Really? Despite you party affiliation?
What are your thoughts on the Gendersternchen, which has sparked fierce and emotional disputes over the last years?

Yes, I'm at odds with the party majority of this. Aside from that, I don't know a single woman outside who cares about that, and I asked a few.

I'm also not a fan of the top duo concept the SPD as imposed for the - as I see it - sake of parity. I'd prefer to have one party leader with a diverse them behind him or her. Whether that leader is a man or woman is irrelevant.

[Donerail]

Okay, I goddit. But what if President Biden wants his title to be gendered, especially since his deputy is female, what would it take him to achieve that? Just a presidential order, a bill that has to be approved by Congress, or even an amendment of the Constitution?

The President is addressed as "Mister/Madam President" out of long-standing convention, not any statute; if Biden wanted, he could use something like "His Excellency Joe Biden" on all his official materials, though nobody would listen to him. The fact that the office is called President, however, is hard-wired into the Constitution.

Still not sure what it would mean to make the title gendered. The US has, of course, never had a female President, but when Mary Robinson and Mary McAleese were President of Ireland they were always referred to as President. To answer your earlier question, though

1.) Are there any attempts at the adoption of gender-sensitive language regarding official titles?

There has been a shift toward the adoption of gender-insensitive language for official titles; hence the clunky "Congressperson" and the even worse "Alderperson," or using "Congressman" and "Alderman" to refer to both male and female holders of those titles.

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

"Congressperson"

I always use Representative. I have no idea why this isn't the norm.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

"Congressperson"

I always use Representative. I have no idea why this isn't the norm.

Doesn't the title of "Representative" refer to a member of the U.S. House of Representatives only, whereas a Congressperson can be a member of either chamber?

[Associate Justice PiT]

     Gendering words isn't a normal practice in English, and many gendered variants have fallen out of usage because they were veiled terms of disrespect, e.g. poetess. "Madam President" is sufficient for the purpose.

[𝕭𝖆𝖕𝖙𝖎𝖘𝖙𝖆 𝕸𝖎𝖓𝖔𝖑𝖆]

🇮🇹 il presidente ☞ la presidentessa
🇮🇹 il cancelliere ☞ la cancelliera
🇮🇹 il ministro ☞ la ministra

1. The ordinary feminine of "il presidente" is "la presidente".
2. It should be said that "la ministra" is not a form accepted by everyone (although I personally consider those who don't accept it very silly).

3. Unrelated to Italian per se, but English isn't really a gendered language, so this thread doesn't make much sense.

[brucejoel99]

"Congressperson"

I always use Representative. I have no idea why this isn't the norm.

Doesn't the title of "Representative" refer to a member of the U.S. House of Representatives only, whereas a Congressperson can be a member of either chamber?

Technically yes, but nobody ever refers to a Senator as a "Congressperson" instead of "Senator."

[politicallefty]

I've always wondered why we sort of diverged from other countries as to what we call Members of Congress. In most countries, a member of the lower House is called an MP. Obviously, that wouldn't work here since we call our national legislature Congress rather than Parliament. But Canadian provinces generally call their provincial legislators MLAs (I think Ontario goes with MPPs). Why don't we call them MCs, MOCs, MHRs, or something like that?

As for gendering the English language, we don't need to do that. Madam President, Madam Vice President, Madam Speaker, and so on will suffice. As for why the Constitution doesn't have such terminology, they never really conceived of women in elected office or as head of state. In terms of English/British colonies in the Americas, there were only ever two Queens regnant: Mary II (in joint rule with her husband) and Anne. Mary I and Elizabeth I never ruled over the colonies (their reigns predate the founding of the Jamestown Colony), although they certainly weren't forgotten in terms of naming. But even then, overall, Queens have been rare on account of male primogeniture.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

1. The ordinary feminine of "il presidente" is "la presidente".
2. It should be said that "la ministra" is not a form accepted by everyone (although I personally consider those who don't accept it very silly).

I used two different dictionaries, thus I seem to have discovered correct, albeit uncommon translations for those words. I'm sorry! I never really learned your language, I just took some lessons before a school trip to Venice.

[Anzeigenhauptmeister]

Yes, I'm at odds with the party majority of this. Aside from that, I don't know a single woman outside who cares about that, and I asked a few.

I'm sure, you're merely at odds with the party establishment of the SPD. The party base doesn't sympathize with their views in this regard and many other.s Sometimes I think the SPD party establishment mistakes their own party with Bündnis 90/Die Grünen...

I'm also not a fan of the top duo concept the SPD as imposed for the - as I see it - sake of parity. I'd prefer to have one party leader with a diverse them behind him or her. Whether that leader is a man or woman is irrelevant.

The idea behind that (voluntary) top duo concept was to cover as many wings of the party base as possible. And what did you get? A very renowned and popular party chairman and a very detested and unlikeable shrew as chairwoman, who has offset NoWaBo's popularity rating contributed when taking office...

[Middle-aged Europe]

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/presidentess

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/presidentess

[Joe Republic]

Genderless nouns are one of the few aspects of the notoriously complex English language that actually make it simpler to use and easier to learn.  The few examples that do exist (e.g. actress, waitress, stewardess, etc.) have been fading from use for some time (actor, server, flight attendant), and that's a good thing.

[jimrtex]

Okay, I goddit. But what if President Biden wants his title to be gendered, especially since his deputy is female, what would it take him to achieve that? Just a presidential order, a bill that has to be approved by Congress, or even an amendment of the Constitution?

The President is addressed as "Mister/Madam President" out of long-standing convention, not any statute; if Biden wanted, he could use something like "His Excellency Joe Biden" on all his official materials, though nobody would listen to him. The fact that the office is called President, however, is hard-wired into the Constitution.

Still not sure what it would mean to make the title gendered. The US has, of course, never had a female President, but when Mary Robinson and Mary McAleese were President of Ireland they were always referred to as President. To answer your earlier question, though

1.) Are there any attempts at the adoption of gender-sensitive language regarding official titles?

There has been a shift toward the adoption of gender-insensitive language for official titles; hence the clunky "Congressperson" and the even worse "Alderperson," or using "Congressman" and "Alderman" to refer to both male and female holders of those titles.

This was discussed in the 1st Congress, and it was determined not to use pretentious titles such as "his excellency" which smells of monarchism.

Most governors are The Honorable Jack Smith. There are a few that use His Excellency, such as Massachusetts and South Carolina. But that practice is more offensive than their flags.

[jimrtex]

"Congressperson"

I always use Representative. I have no idea why this isn't the norm.

Doesn't the title of "Representative" refer to a member of the U.S. House of Representatives only, whereas a Congressperson can be a member of either chamber?

While technically true, "Congressman Bloggs" is referring to a Representative.

[jimrtex]

I've always wondered why we sort of diverged from other countries as to what we call Members of Congress. In most countries, a member of the lower House is called an MP. Obviously, that wouldn't work here since we call our national legislature Congress rather than Parliament. But Canadian provinces generally call their provincial legislators MLAs (I think Ontario goes with MPPs). Why don't we call them MCs, MOCs, MHRs, or something like that?

As for gendering the English language, we don't need to do that. Madam President, Madam Vice President, Madam Speaker, and so on will suffice. As for why the Constitution doesn't have such terminology, they never really conceived of women in elected office or as head of state. In terms of English/British colonies in the Americas, there were only ever two Queens regnant: Mary II (in joint rule with her husband) and Anne. Mary I and Elizabeth I never ruled over the colonies (their reigns predate the founding of the Jamestown Colony), although they certainly weren't forgotten in terms of naming. But even then, overall, Queens have been rare on account of male primogeniture.

Roanoke Colony was established under the reign of Elizabeth (I). No less a fave of the Queen than Sir Walter Raleigh claimed to have searched for the lost colony.