2024 Third Party and Independent Candidate General discussion
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Author Topic: 2024 Third Party and Independent Candidate General discussion  (Read 42522 times)
PSOL
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« on: January 20, 2021, 05:44:33 PM »
« edited: October 21, 2023, 01:52:36 PM by PSOL »

With the inauguration of a new president comes a new thread to serve as a space for future discussions of where the third party scene is heading for the next 4 years. This thread is free to serve as a space for a variety of discussion relating to such topics. The emergence and growth of new parties and perennial personalities, ballot access changes, and election predictions.

The parties and personalities listed here are in a dynamic list subject to change, but have an active national or regional presence. Do note that it is topical to talk about other parties not listed here. Due to instances where there is electoral fusionism, the list below will not include exclusively entryist and/or factional pressure groups such as the DSA, Working Families Party, Conservative Party, Vermont Progressive Party, Forward Party (maybe), etc. However, this could be subject to change and discussion on these parties are acceptable in this thread.

Please be respectful for the most part; no inane thread hijackings over partisan squabbles, no whining about lesser evilism, no undeserved blaming over a party being a spoiler without sufficient evidence. If not, above all else keep it brief. Another thing I’d like to be avoided is the splintering of discussion without reason to. I still maintain that there was no reason to have an entire thread dedicated to Kanye West at that time given that it was not relevant to do so as far as the election was concerned. Now, while there is now a thread on USGD dedicated to the Libertarian Party, discussion may also happen there as well as here.

Note: Please PM me for any revisions, clarifications, or additions to the below list so as to not clutter the thread in question
Other Threads: The following threads are currently in use or have expired to previous discussion:
Minor Party and Independent Candidate Discussion—Inactive since c. 2020
Libertarian Party Inside Baseball Politics Thread—inactive
RFK Jr Megathread

Aggregate Archives and News Sources: The following sources are great aggregates of news and archival data related to the various independents and third parties participating in our system of government at all levels:
Ballot Access News
Independent Political Report
American Third Party Report
Politics1
Our Campaigns
Marxists.org—Note: ran by one of the many Trotskyist groups which split by the minute. Still better than the user-unfriendly Ismail PDFs
Lpedia—Libertarian encyclopedia
Third Party Watch—Investigative reporting

Federal and Regional Third Parties and Independent Candidates: the following parties and notable independent presidential candidates will be listed in no particular order.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr
Legal Marijuana Now (Links to Freedom Gazette)
Ensuring your money does not come back
Socialist Party USA(links to Socialist Mag)
Brock Pierce (’s current site)
Working Class Party
Alliance Party
Green Party of the United States
Libertarian Party
Socialist Alternative
Constitution Party
Party for Socialism and Liberation (includes link to Liberation News)
People’s Party
Reform Party
Association of Libertarian State Parties
Afroman Central

California National Party
Alaska Independence Party
Peace and Freedom Party—see their occasional Suds, Snacks, and Socialism forum. Now on Zoom!
Aloha ʻĀina Party
Grassroots-Legalize Cannabis Party
United Utah Party
Green Mountain Peace and Justice Party—Formerly Bernie Sanders’s old party when it went by the Liberty Union Party



Auxiliary and other Media (pls pm me):
Popular Resistance—Kevin Zeese memorial foundation
Black Agenda Report—Close to certain leadership in the Green Party
Alliance Podcast After Dark—main source of info for the masses
Gadfly’s Third Party Podcast—talking about fringe third parties, independent candidates, and electoral history.
Breakthrough News—The perspectives of the American Left, features content from D.C. PSL activist and Green Party candidate Eugene Puryear and DSA/PP activist Abby Martin
Reason—Libertarian editorial site, Perhaps the face of the movement
The Socialist—podcast with PSL co-founder Brian Becker
Cato Institute—the intellectual space for the Libertarian movement
The Spark—indeterminate, but possibly close, relationship with the Working Class Party
Solidarity Lobby—Christian Democratic explanations
Soviet Empire—Workers of the World, Unite (for rallies at least)! More seriously, a mainly Marxist-oriented forum with great history of the movement.
Uncovered Politics—Darcy Richardson’s blog
Socratic Gadfly’s blogThe (ex)GP blogger. The only (ex)GPUSA eceleb.
The Libertarian Heathen—Pro-Mises Caucus, socially Right-Libertarian blog.
World Socialist Website—Stand against the Pabloite revisionists, stand for publishing magnate David North!
Long Live Alternative Parties—reviews lawsuits involving various parties and does interviews with candidates and chapter leaders
The Platypus Society—The Left died in 1917, Long Live the Left
ML Translations—historical background and endorsements of several third parties

Well I expect the next four years to be eventful
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progressive85
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« Reply #1 on: January 20, 2021, 05:56:57 PM »

Would be fun if we had a three-way race again, hard to believe it could happen unless it was a very wealthy person like Ross Perot.
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PSOL
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« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2021, 02:47:48 AM »

So the Lavender Caucus of the Green Party is trying to decertify the Georgia Green Party for a statement which equates sex and gender. Apparently the complaint was filed just before Christmas, and right now we have a response.

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...We urge that this committee (1) reject this complaint, (2) exercise patience that the party’s process for the democratic revision to its platform will function to resolve disputes among accredited members over platform language and (3) allow our state and national parties to return to the important work of building capacity for the election cycle which began as the polls closed November 3rd, 2020...

The Georgia GP is indeed right that this is a purge, and the Lavender Caucus is indeed in the right to move the ball forward.

Anyway, as major social media firms attempt to use the Capitol siege to also go against the Left. The Green Party is responding to it.



On censorship, the PSL is also hitting back at the attempts for some to create a Patriot Act 2.0 through them showing evidence that the recent coup was not exactly kept very secretive and that the ramifications would be jeopardizing to the public benefit

I’ve seen other parties, taking part electorally or not, be as concerned of the new laws and norms being used against their entirely legal activities. With CrimethInc and a 71k subbed Antifa Twitter page deleted without any warning, the fear legal or otherwise is quite real.

The information shared by CrimethInc and the Antifa page is 100% real and mainly zines and documentation of recent police brutality. Most activity done and sponsored by leftist parties are mainly community work and participating in peaceful protests. However, real effects have major consequences. These parties use Twitter and other pages to communicate quickly with their affiliates and members, and the US government usually puts off bogus warrants when it wants to silence people. Like, for the FRSO, they issued a warrant after protests at the RNC for “suspecting to provide material aid terrorists”. Of course, after being infiltrated and having members’ homes be ransacked there was no evidence of such a thing. Ended up with a lengthy legal battle that rendered the FRSO unable to function for ten years.

BAN just posted their monthly newsletter. Highlights include:

The new way for states to suppress third parties is banning out-of-state circulators, the people getting the signatures. How this is even something that can be banned and under what grounds? I am unaware, but it’s probably bulls••• considering basically all who do this are volunteers.

This along with more reaches the apex of the immense lawsuit backlog third parties have to do to get on the ballot. Minimum membership quotas, vote quotas, fundraising objectives and now this just adds up the time spent not doing party objectives. That only in Russia is there a comparable state suppressing third parties like this is something to feel shame about.

Alliance has gained affiliates in Mississippi and Connecticut. What’s unique about the party is that not only can it build electoral alliances, but it can surpass them by quickly merging them. Reminds me of a small scale attempt of what the Reform Party was able to do, or the Black Panther Party in its solidarity work.
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Agonized-Statism
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« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2021, 11:46:33 AM »

Any updates on this Patriot Party thing the Trump supporters have been talking about?
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PSOL
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« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2021, 04:36:27 PM »

Any updates on this Patriot Party thing the Trump supporters have been talking about?
It’s registered in Mississippi as of this writing
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PSOL
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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2021, 10:10:56 PM »

There has been changing state laws presented and passed on the Straight-Ticket device, a way for voters to just quickly indicate what party a person wants to vote for instead of marking differing offices individually. While states such as Oklahoma having Democratic legislators pushing bills to repeal it while in Iowa there are efforts by Republican state legislators to reinstate it.

Virginia has made its ballot access laws much more fair by lowering the number of petitions to 2,000 from 51,000 signatures. A major victory for fair ballot access.
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The Mikado
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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2021, 02:36:41 AM »


Virginia has made its ballot access laws much more fair by lowering the number of petitions to 2,000 from 51,000 signatures. A major victory for fair ballot access.

This is huge. VA has always been one of the biggest hurdles for third party ballot access.

Anyway, IMO a lot of people really underestimate the Libertarian Party's potential. I was very impressed with them getting 50 state ballot access when no other third party got remotely close, and Jorgensen's 1.2% is higher than I expected (I was guessing she'd get like 0.8% or so). The Libertarian Party could have a real shot at 2-3% or more if circumstances line up well in 2024 and they get a compelling candidate.

It'd be bad for the Democrats, but arguably the best thing the LP could do is nominate Vermin Supreme. His very name would make him the greatest anti-system protest candidate of all time, if you coupled it with 50 state ballot access.
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AltWorlder
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2021, 11:30:53 PM »

Really good and surprisingly non-Libertarian piece from Reason.com:

Here's How Donald Trump's 'Patriot Party' Could Become a Political Force by Matt Welch

Quote
I see four main obstacles, beginning with the man himself:

1. It takes a lot of thankless, expensive drudgery without an immediate, flashy payoff.

2. Americans are third-partiers in the streets, duopolists in the sheets.

3. Ballot access is a huge pain for third parties in non-presidential races.

4. Taking over an existing third party requires you to…take over an existing third party.

He goes into the four points in full and then considers all the possible parties that Trump could try to merge with. Really great detail.
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Chips
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« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2021, 11:08:19 PM »

Patriot Party could be a plausible thing.
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PSOL
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« Reply #9 on: February 04, 2021, 12:12:33 AM »

Arkansas has tightened the signature requirements to 5,000. Why it even matters idk in Arkansas, maybe it’s just hatred of democracy

The people’s party is trying to establish itself in California.

P&F and the Cali Green Party means that getting 68,000 signatures, much less votes, in a crowded state really shows how cocky they are. Why they aren’t focusing on the Northeast, I’m not sure. Tbh, I don’t even know what angle Nina Turner is going for considering this party is apparently ran on grifters and faux-leftist support from the wrestler and Jimmy Dore (sigh, I’ve come to this realization quite late).

Unlike, say, the centrist parties appearing to relevance in 2020, the Left actually has intersecting lanes from disgruntled Lefty voters. I fully expect to see blood being drawn in campaigns against another. It’s kind of already happening with major figures in the third party space like SG throwing mud on the PP. I fully expect for PSL to unironically start using social imperialist and for the Greens to claim their Democratic wreckers.

God, let the blood be drawn for the good of the left:
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AltWorlder
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« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2021, 05:09:28 PM »

Patriot Party could be a plausible thing.

It could form but it would probably be a lot less significant than people think, please read the Matt Welch article, it really shows that there's a ton of structural problems against them and basically any other new third parties that are trying to form from the ground up today.

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Aside from the ballot-access hurdles (on which more below), there is an important fundraising bottleneck at the beginning of a new party's life: The incumbents, including minor parties, that have "national committees" as recognized by the Federal Elections Commissions (FEC), are able to accept donations at $35,000 a pop. Individual campaigns along the lines of a prospective Trump 2024? Just $5,000.

And here's the catch about graduating to the big boys' fundraising club: The FEC won't grant national committee status until a political party holds a national convention, establishes national headquarters, sets up state party committees, and has a "sufficient number of party-designated federal candidates on the ballot in a sufficient number of states in different geographic areas." In other words, the Patriot Party better get cranking right now to compete in a whole bunch of 2022 House and Senate races; in the meantime, the candidates and the party will have to either self-finance (never a Trump specialty) or collect donations at a fraction of their competitors' size for a minimum of two years.

The only way at this point is to do what the Alliance Party has been doing and consolidate a bunch of  shell/zombie state third parties for their ballot access, or wait until 2028 because 2024 is too soon to build that party infrastructure.
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PSOL
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« Reply #11 on: February 09, 2021, 12:44:14 PM »

So the People’s Party is getting beat from all angles.

First Our Revolution LA disaffiliated from them due to alleged undemocratic leadership and structure, among other things. Whether true or not is not much of a concern, this is a big blow to the organization.

Hawkins, in his latest interview, has said that they called the Green Party too “socialistic” to work with. Considering the Green Party is still a mixed class party of social Democratic beatniks, this isn’t a good look. What’s also not good is the words coming straight from the PP’s Twitter where they state they are “progressive populists” and not “Leftists”



This is indeed what I was waiting for.

Anyway, let’s talk about working class solidarity. The Mountain Party has joined several local DSA chapters in the formation of an Appalachian People’s Front, a solidarity network to aid those suffering in this pandemic, those whom have been driven to poverty by a government who has abandoned them. I believe this is the second most major collaboration between the DSA and the Green Party since Franca Muller Paz’s candidacy for local office in Baltimore.

In California, the car caravan for single payer has been endorsed and participated by the local chapters of the Peace and Freedom Party, PSL, the DSA, SAlt, and People’s Party. Very cool indeed.

The Alliance Party has grown into several chapters as has been shown here. There’s still a lot of local Reform chapters to go though.
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We created opportunities to grow our party both organically through the creation of new Alliance Party affiliates in Kentucky, Mississippi, Nevada, North Carolina, and Rhode Island, as well as through affiliation with established state parties such as the Independence Party of New York, the American Delta Party of Delaware, and the Reform Party of Florida.

The difference between the Twitter of the ASP and their website is quite evident. The ASP website has an entire section on their blog dedicated against abortion and the views of the Left faction aren’t as prominent. Meanwhile social conservatism is downplayed and piled on with memes so as to seemingly decrease their importance. Gotta hand it to them for their good PR moves.
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Spark
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« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2021, 05:29:05 PM »

Well Trump could start his own party - the Patriot Party, but I doubt he would do it.
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PSOL
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« Reply #13 on: February 13, 2021, 11:52:31 AM »

The ASP has quite an odd view of First Amendment freedoms that disagree with the official court position as of now



They also have negative views upon legitimize career options, options helping people to bond together.



The Green Party meanwhile tells it straight


A direct jab at the personality outfit that shall not be named. Furthermore, this I suppose is the “official” response against the Green Party being called “ossified” in its leadership

Current PP state chapters


👀 Colorado is perhaps the closest thing to a swing state that they’ve got registered for 👀
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PSOL
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« Reply #14 on: February 13, 2021, 05:16:04 PM »

Colorado is perhaps the closest thing to a swing state that they’ve got registered for

I'd argue it's Maine now. Not only are they trending opposite directions, but Republicans have already started performing better in Maine than in Colorado. If a serious People's Party/Green Party candidate runs in 2024 they could make it close there, but I don't expect it to flip until 2028.
With the ranked choice voting, I’d extend that to 2032.

Still, the ability for the People’s Party to actually take significant votes from the Democratic Party and not from the more likely Green base and disinterested nonvoters has yet to be actually seen. Exactly what is the voter type for this party to even have? What niche does it even have that other parties don’t fill?
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PSOL
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« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2021, 06:30:40 PM »

Colorado is perhaps the closest thing to a swing state that they’ve got registered for

I'd argue it's Maine now. Not only are they trending opposite directions, but Republicans have already started performing better in Maine than in Colorado. If a serious People's Party/Green Party candidate runs in 2024 they could make it close there, but I don't expect it to flip until 2028.
With the ranked choice voting, I’d extend that to 2032.

Still, the ability for the People’s Party to actually take significant votes from the Democratic Party and not from the more likely Green base and disinterested nonvoters has yet to be actually seen. Exactly what is the voter type for this party to even have? What niche does it even have that other parties don’t fill?

I have a feeling that the People’s Party and Green Party will merge, or that the Green Party will become obsolete. Their platforms are almost identical. Maybe it would be a good idea to start over with a fresh label because of the reputation the Green Party has (anti-vaxxers etc). People just want a reputable progressive party.
That ship sailed a long time ago.

The People’s Party has criticized the Green Party far too much and the antivaxxers and loons have been purged since Hawkins won the primary last year. Meanwhile strains of the conspiracy vote left for the People’s Party in the first place (Jesse V) and their syncophants (Jimmy Dore). Furthermore, the TERFs in Georgia are also getting purged.

Look in the post just above the one I posted today, they won’t join the Green Party because they are too “socialistic” for their tastes.

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TrumpBritt24
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« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2021, 11:12:02 PM »

Sorinne Ardeleanu (Formerly of the Libertarian Party, earned 1% of the VP nomination vote at the convention last year) is running as an independent.
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StateBoiler
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« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2021, 04:31:27 PM »

Who is running the MPP as far as getting it organized, nationally?
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PSOL
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« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2021, 08:35:29 PM »

Who is running the MPP as far as getting it organized, nationally?
Well there’s these people

The people of note are Dr. Cornel West, Jimmy Dore, Rose McGowan, and Susan Sarandon. A few are DSA folks, Bernie delegates, and disaffected progressives.

Looking through their endorsers meanwhile is even more eye-raising; Chris Hedges, the Poor People Campaign, trade unionists at Amazon and even AFL-CIO heads, Oliver Stone, Podcaster Abby Martin of Empire Files, and Cindy Sheehan. Well this is a much more diverse organization than I thought it was.

The fact that one endorser is a 2020 presidential candidate that got a few thousand in Maryland makes it seem that they are really trying to build a movement off the ground. Still, it’s long term stability is yet to be seen.

Can I just say that now I’m kind of warming up to the idea of their being multiple parties contesting the elections, all capturing different niches and competing and coexisting among one another. Further maturation and possible consolidation and collaboration will usher in each centralized movement doing its own thing thus lowering the risks and baggage involved of just one party or organization. Competition will thus separate the stragglers from the superb models of organization. That will lead to a point where further consolidation and snatching of the niches. Which means that the growth of the DSA, FRSO, PSL+PFP, PP, SAlt, and Working Class party are indeed good things. It means the restructuring of the Green Party is indeed a good thing. It means the increased agitation and disappointment in new unionists and rank-and-file to radical alternatives like the IWW and socialism is indeed a good thing. This isn’t cutting a piece of a small and stagnant pie but of immense proliferation of a solid, decentralized movement that’s much, much harder for the Feds to clamp down on.

The snowball can only get bigger downhill.


Maintaining this along with the ANSWER coalition, #StopTheEvictions, among other campaigns instead of just running for elections shows the power of the vanguard model. It also shows why the party has  no elected officials, as they don’t have enough resources yet.

Very reminiscent of the work SAlt does in Seattle, albeit more empowered with actual representation, and very much like the #Fightfor15 that SAlt helped propagate. Other popular fronts and activities include the Trio making up the National Alliance Against Police Repression, and the Union startup work and support the IWW does.


This party is such a meme

I expect to see a lot of attempts at establishing political ground in easy-access states like Tennessee along with Alaska due to RCV. We will see soon I suppose which among Colorado, Illinois, or whatever state will have the longest ballot.

I want some feedback here on the state of this thread. Y’all good on participation now? You think the focus I give along with the list on post 1 is fine? I ask because I’ve thought about adding SPUSA and PCUSA on the list considering the age and fusionism of the former and growth of the latter. With 1k members each and being fairly limited regionally, are they relevant enough?
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PSOL
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« Reply #19 on: February 16, 2021, 12:12:04 PM »

Greens attempting to get party status in Kansas, first attempt to do so for any third party since 2011 with Americans Elect

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AltWorlder
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« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2021, 05:58:07 PM »


This party is such a meme

There's an entire quadrant of the political compass that's underserved.
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PSOL
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« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2021, 10:08:50 PM »
« Edited: February 20, 2021, 10:12:26 PM by PSOL »

So with the only competent person in the Ye campaign gone and West’s life in tatters, I think it’s safe to say that Ye 2024 won’t be better ran.

Hearing from people both IRL and online about the PSL, it’s clear that the problems paid out in the exposé was very much limited to the Chicago branch. Unsurprising, given the lack of Democratic centralism in the party due to their Trotskyist tendencies. With there literally being a stipulation and procedure for whole branches to leave, somehow such an ideologically uniform organization is less centralized than the IWW and the Green Party right now. This is not good for their long term survival and growth.

Honestly this is much the case of many parties bending the rules or not being centralized across the Left. WWP wasn’t, and it’s apparently a problem with the FRSO in their Miami branch at least back in 2010. In the long term, the allegations won’t harm them as there’s no smoking gun, hard evidence, or number of cases to drag them down as a nationwide party. Much like how Tara Reade allegations, itself of purported dubious credibility, didn’t sink Biden. Anyway


Based

States across the nation continue to assault democracy, with Iowa being the latest in putting unfair petition requirements.

The ASP is simping for Co-ops and small businesses yet again



Given they support economic decentralization, this is something the left (Liberation theologians)and right(Jacksonian and tradcath) factions can get behind.


Somehow this makes them much more charming then cringey, again showcasing their adept usage of social media.

Well it’s solidarity time



Ohio now has a PP chapter
I’m surprised that they aren’t focusing on easy-access and RCV states like Illinois, Alaska, New Hampshire, and the Southwest.

So I’m asking you all again on what the verdict should be for the party list on the first post. Do you guys mind if I add SPUSA and PCUSA? Are they too irrelevant for the time being?

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VPH
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« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2021, 10:12:55 PM »

The People's Party reminds me a bit of the late 1990s Labor Party.
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StateBoiler
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« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2021, 08:00:53 AM »

I feel parties (or really any politics-based organization) should be much more cautious in their use of Twitter, as in every single tweet that a party puts out should be vetted and voted on by their national board. When you look at the tweets of the American Solidarity Party, is this the views of the American Solidarity Party as a whole or just the person that controls their Twitter account? For example, no national party's tweet (be it the American Solidarity Party or the Republicans or Democrats) should ever publish a tweet contrary to the party's platform or bylaws.
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PSOL
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« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2021, 12:16:17 PM »

I feel parties (or really any politics-based organization) should be much more cautious in their use of Twitter, as in every single tweet that a party puts out should be vetted and voted on by their national board. When you look at the tweets of the American Solidarity Party, is this the views of the American Solidarity Party as a whole or just the person that controls their Twitter account? For example, no national party's tweet (be it the American Solidarity Party or the Republicans or Democrats) should ever publish a tweet contrary to the party's platform or bylaws.
Well someone’s a buzzkill. Lighten up a little man and enjoy the memes, this strategy helps attract young people to the party.

For the record, nothing on there breaks their bylaws.
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