2024 Third Party and Independent Candidate General discussion

[wbrocks67]

https://twitter.com/AlliNovelo/status/1772233061926609285

[Redban]

Nicole Shanahan has ties to Oakland

https://twitter.com/Holden_Culotta/status/1772241238349001097

[Redban]

DNC Corruption.



the day before Kennedy is set to announce his vice president, Nevada Secretary of State, Democrat Francisco Aguilar, is making a desperate attempt to invalidate the campaign’s signatures in the state.

“This is the epitome of corruption,” said Kennedy campaign ballot access attorney Paul Rossi. “After successfully collecting all of the signatures we need in Nevada, the DNC Goon Squad and their lackeys in the Nevada Secretary of State’s office are outright inventing a new requirement for the petition with zero legal basis. The Nevada statute does not require the VP on the petition. The petition does not even have a field for a VP on it. The state confirmed that the petition does not require a VP in writing on Nov. 14. The state approved our petition without a VP on it in writing on Jan. 9.”
…

This corrupt attempt by the Nevada Secretary of State must be enjoined by a federal judge. The Kennedy campaign intends to depose the Secretary of State to find out exactly which White House or DNC official concocted this scheme.

https://www.kennedy24.com/dnc_invents_new_rule_invalidate_rfk_jr_nevada_signatures

[Independents for Nihilism]

DNC Corruption.



the day before Kennedy is set to announce his vice president, Nevada Secretary of State, Democrat Francisco Aguilar, is making a desperate attempt to invalidate the campaign’s signatures in the state.

“This is the epitome of corruption,” said Kennedy campaign ballot access attorney Paul Rossi. “After successfully collecting all of the signatures we need in Nevada, the DNC Goon Squad and their lackeys in the Nevada Secretary of State’s office are outright inventing a new requirement for the petition with zero legal basis. The Nevada statute does not require the VP on the petition. The petition does not even have a field for a VP on it. The state confirmed that the petition does not require a VP in writing on Nov. 14. The state approved our petition without a VP on it in writing on Jan. 9.”
…

This corrupt attempt by the Nevada Secretary of State must be enjoined by a federal judge. The Kennedy campaign intends to depose the Secretary of State to find out exactly which White House or DNC official concocted this scheme.

https://www.kennedy24.com/dnc_invents_new_rule_invalidate_rfk_jr_nevada_signatures

If the RFK campaign can successfully appeal that, it'll be good publicity for him. Not so sure if the whole "find out who ordered it" thing will help but still.

[wbrocks67]

Wild that RFK is turning into another Q-Anon type conspiracy orator. Maybe his team should've just done their due diligence? But nah, of course somehow its the White House's fault that he didn't do his research on correct signature gathering in the state.

[Redban]

https://rumble.com/v4lh736-robert-f.-kennedy-jr.-announcement-vice-president-pick.html

Also his official YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RunrpokDyKE

[Arizona Iced Tea]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

[AltWorlder]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

Nader is a convenient scapegoat in 2000 rather than everyone else who is actually at fault for Gore's (not-)loss.

[Arizona Iced Tea]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

Nader is a convenient scapegoat in 2000 rather than everyone else who is actually at fault for Gore's (not-)loss.

Al Gore had 5 other chances to win besides Florida. He could have won NH, MO, NV, OH, and his home state of Tennessee. The fact that he couldn't carry any of these plus having places like Oregon closer than 0.5% shows that his campaign did not deserve to win.

[Yelnoc]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

Nader is a convenient scapegoat in 2000 rather than everyone else who is actually at fault for Gore's (not-)loss.

Al Gore had 5 other chances to win besides Florida. He could have won NH, MO, NV, OH, and his home state of Tennessee. The fact that he couldn't carry any of these plus having places like Oregon closer than 0.5% shows that his campaign did not deserve to win.

In what way could the fact Gore won by just one state justify having that one state's electoral votes stolen from him?

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

DNC Corruption.

<Kennedy campaign's BS deleted for the sake of space and formatting>

the day before Kennedy is set to announce his vice president, Nevada Secretary of State, Democrat Francisco Aguilar, is making a desperate attempt to invalidate the campaign’s signatures in the state.

“This is the epitome of corruption,” said Kennedy campaign ballot access attorney Paul Rossi. “After successfully collecting all of the signatures we need in Nevada, the DNC Goon Squad and their lackeys in the Nevada Secretary of State’s office are outright inventing a new requirement for the petition with zero legal basis. The Nevada statute does not require the VP on the petition. The petition does not even have a field for a VP on it. The state confirmed that the petition does not require a VP in writing on Nov. 14. The state approved our petition without a VP on it in writing on Jan. 9.”
…

This corrupt attempt by the Nevada Secretary of State must be enjoined by a federal judge. The Kennedy campaign intends to depose the Secretary of State to find out exactly which White House or DNC official concocted this scheme.

https://www.kennedy24.com/dnc_invents_new_rule_invalidate_rfk_jr_nevada_signatures

Kennedy is a lying POS.

Wayback link to the relevant section of the Nevada Revised Statutes from 2012:

NRS 298.109  Nomination of independent candidates for President and Vice President; designation of candidate’s nominees for presidential electors; challenge to candidacy.

     1.  A person who desires to be an independent candidate for the office of President of the United States must, not later than 5 p.m. on the second Friday in August in each year in which a presidential election is to be held, pay a filing fee of $250 and file with the Secretary of State a declaration of candidacy and a petition of candidacy, in which the person must also designate a nominee for Vice President. The petition must be signed by a number of registered voters equal to not less than 1 percent of the total number of votes cast at the last preceding general election for candidates for the offices of Representative in Congress and must request that the names of the proposed candidates be placed on the ballot at the general election that year. The candidate shall file a copy of the petition the person intends to circulate for signatures with the Secretary of State.

Current link to Nevada Revised Statutes from state.nv.us:

NRS 298.109  Nomination of independent candidates for President and Vice President; challenge to candidacy.

      1.  A person who desires to be an independent candidate for the office of President of the United States must, not later than 5 p.m. on the second Friday in August in each year in which a presidential election is to be held, pay a filing fee of $250 and file with the Secretary of State a declaration of candidacy and a petition of candidacy, in which the person must also designate a nominee for Vice President. The petition must be signed by a number of registered voters equal to not less than 1 percent of the total number of votes cast at the last preceding general election for candidates for the offices of Representative in Congress and must request that the names of the proposed candidates be placed on the ballot at the general election that year. The candidate shall file a copy of the petition the person intends to circulate for signatures with the Secretary of State before the petition may be circulated for signatures.

The actual story here, insofar as there is one, is the Kennedy's campaign screwed up, were told they screwed up even before they submitted any signatures, and have until July to collect signatures to fix the fact that they screwed up. But as expected from a scumbag like Kennedy, nothing is his fault and he just has to use baseless GOP-style conspiracy theories to whine about his campaign's mistake.

[Redban]

https://twitter.com/LauraLoomer/status/1772936836664435003

[NYDem]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

That might be why certain online types who post on Atlas don't buy it, but that's obviously not something most people care about. A majority of Americans don't even know what ballot access laws are and pick a candidate from one of the two major parties whenever they vote. Being unfair to third parties is something that both major parties do and that few average people notice or care about.

[ReallySuper]

aside from the rfk jr distraction sideshow, in more important news jill stein has received enough donations to be eligible for federal primary matching funds and will file the application with the fec shortly. this means she will be getting an immediate infusion of $100,000 in public money soon, literally all of which will probably go to ballot access petitioning efforts lol. theyre already racking up huge expenses in the moderately difficult states, god knows how much they will have to burn on new york. the good news is at least greens are already on the ballot in other difficult states like texas, arizona, california, etc

also last week the scotus refused to hear jill steins case against the fec, which illegally and retroactively stole $100k from jill stein that it had previously given to her 2016 campaign in primary matching funds (the fec changed the definition of the primary season to shorten the time period in which donations can count for matching funds and then asked for their money back)

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1773108514589757854

[Open Source Intelligence]

DNC Corruption.

<Kennedy campaign's BS deleted for the sake of space and formatting>

the day before Kennedy is set to announce his vice president, Nevada Secretary of State, Democrat Francisco Aguilar, is making a desperate attempt to invalidate the campaign’s signatures in the state.

“This is the epitome of corruption,” said Kennedy campaign ballot access attorney Paul Rossi. “After successfully collecting all of the signatures we need in Nevada, the DNC Goon Squad and their lackeys in the Nevada Secretary of State’s office are outright inventing a new requirement for the petition with zero legal basis. The Nevada statute does not require the VP on the petition. The petition does not even have a field for a VP on it. The state confirmed that the petition does not require a VP in writing on Nov. 14. The state approved our petition without a VP on it in writing on Jan. 9.”
…

This corrupt attempt by the Nevada Secretary of State must be enjoined by a federal judge. The Kennedy campaign intends to depose the Secretary of State to find out exactly which White House or DNC official concocted this scheme.

https://www.kennedy24.com/dnc_invents_new_rule_invalidate_rfk_jr_nevada_signatures

Kennedy is a lying POS.

Wayback link to the relevant section of the Nevada Revised Statutes from 2012:

NRS 298.109  Nomination of independent candidates for President and Vice President; designation of candidate’s nominees for presidential electors; challenge to candidacy.

     1.  A person who desires to be an independent candidate for the office of President of the United States must, not later than 5 p.m. on the second Friday in August in each year in which a presidential election is to be held, pay a filing fee of $250 and file with the Secretary of State a declaration of candidacy and a petition of candidacy, in which the person must also designate a nominee for Vice President. The petition must be signed by a number of registered voters equal to not less than 1 percent of the total number of votes cast at the last preceding general election for candidates for the offices of Representative in Congress and must request that the names of the proposed candidates be placed on the ballot at the general election that year. The candidate shall file a copy of the petition the person intends to circulate for signatures with the Secretary of State.

Current link to Nevada Revised Statutes from state.nv.us:

NRS 298.109  Nomination of independent candidates for President and Vice President; challenge to candidacy.

      1.  A person who desires to be an independent candidate for the office of President of the United States must, not later than 5 p.m. on the second Friday in August in each year in which a presidential election is to be held, pay a filing fee of $250 and file with the Secretary of State a declaration of candidacy and a petition of candidacy, in which the person must also designate a nominee for Vice President. The petition must be signed by a number of registered voters equal to not less than 1 percent of the total number of votes cast at the last preceding general election for candidates for the offices of Representative in Congress and must request that the names of the proposed candidates be placed on the ballot at the general election that year. The candidate shall file a copy of the petition the person intends to circulate for signatures with the Secretary of State before the petition may be circulated for signatures.

The actual story here, insofar as there is one, is the Kennedy's campaign screwed up, were told they screwed up even before they submitted any signatures, and have until July to collect signatures to fix the fact that they screwed up. But as expected from a scumbag like Kennedy, nothing is his fault and he just has to use baseless GOP-style conspiracy theories to whine about his campaign's mistake.

Richard Winger of Ballot Access News who has covered ballot access law in the United States of America since the 1970s. Published today.

https://ballot-access.org/2024/03/27/nevada-law-on-whether-independent-presidential-petitions-must-include-a-vice-presidential-candidate-is-ambiguous/

Nevada Law on Whether Independent Presidential Petitions Must Include a Vice-Presidential Candidate is Ambiguous

Posted on March 27, 2024 by Richard Winger

As has been reported, the Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., independent presidential petition in Nevada was circulated without a vice-presidential candidate listed.

The Nevada law says, “298.109. A person who desires to be an independent candidate for the office of President must file with the Secretary of State a declaration of candidacy and a petition of candidacy, in which the person must also designate a nominee for Vice President.”

The law also says the candidate must file a copy of the petition before the petition is circulated.

The Kennedy campaign filed a copy of their petition with the Secretary of State before it was circulated, and the Secretary of State’s office approved the petition even though it didn’t list anyone for vice-president. Then, in an abundance of caution, the campaign again asked the Secretary of State is a vice-presidential candidate was needed, and was told that it was not. The Secretary of State’s response is in writing.

It is possible to read the law to mean that the vice-presidential candidate’s name is required on the declaration but not the petition. The use of the word “in”, instead of “on”, suggests this idea.

Before 1993, the law said, “A person who desires to be an independent candidate for President must file with the Secretary of State a certificate of candidacy, in which he may also designate his nominee for Vice President. The certificate must be signed by the candidate for President, his nominee for Vice President if designated, and…” (the remainder of the sentence contains the number of signatures required).

In 1980, John Anderson’s Nevada petition did not list anyone for vice-president. Also in 1992, Ross Perot’s Nevada petition did not list anyone for vice-president. The Perot petition had a blank line for vice-president.

[Open Source Intelligence]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

Nader is a convenient scapegoat in 2000 rather than everyone else who is actually at fault for Gore's (not-)loss.

Very simplistic analysis:

1996:

Clinton 47.4 million votes 49.2%
Dole 39.2 million votes 40.7%
Perot (Reform) 8.1 million votes 8.4%
Nader (Green) 700k votes 0.7%
Browne (Libertarian) 500k votes 0.5%
Other 400k votes 0.4%

Total votes 96.3 million

2000:

Gore 51.0 million votes 48.4%
Bush 50.5 million votes 47.9%
Nader (Green) 2.9 million votes 2.7%
Buchanan (Reform) 450k votes 0.4%
Browne (Libertarian) 400k votes 0.4%
Other 200k votes 0.2%

Total votes 105.4 million

Net Changes

Democrat plus 3.6 million, down 0.8%
Republican plus 11.3 million, plus 7.2%
Green plus 2.2 million, plus 2.0%
Reform down 7.65 million, down 8.0%
Libertarian down 100k, down 0.1%
Other down 200k, down 0.2%

New voters compared to 1996: 9.1 million

So there were 9.1 million additional voters in 2000 and 7.65 million of Perot's voters at a minimum voted for another party in 2000 compared to 1996. Gore, Bush, and Nader went up in 2000 an aggregate of 17.1 million compared to 1996 (the 16.75 million above plus the difference in the Libertarian and Other vote).

For the sake of statistical analysis, if you say every Democrat, Republican, and Green Party voter in 1996 remained one in 2000, you get this breakdown for how Gore, Bush, and Nader performed splitting the 17.1 million up for grabs:

Bush 66%
Gore 21%
Nader 13%

I know the argument regarding '92 is Perot took more or less equally from Clinton and Bush (Republicans dispute this I know). And perhaps via incumbency all the Democrat-leaning Perot voters of 1992 came home in 1996 while none of the Republican-leaning ones did (I find this argument hard to accept unless you have a lot of evidence to support you). But that's literally where you're at if you don't believe Gore got killed in new voters AND in where 1996 Perot voters disappeared to.

(I've always found the Perot vote from both his candidacies completely not studied by political scientists when it comes to understanding who they were, why they went to Perot, and more importantly who they voted for in the 1980s, and who they voted for in the 2000s. Because I can very easily see a Perot voter voting for Bush, then voting for Obama, then voting for Trump.)

[Open Source Intelligence]

If you want to do a 1992 to 2000 analysis, there's only 1 million additional voters from 1992 to 2000 which is a closer number (in case you couldn't figure out people weren't enthused with the presidential election in 1996). Perot's 1992 vote to Buchanan's 2000 vote decreases 19.3 million voters.

Gore increased 6.1 million voters from Clinton '92.

Bush the Younger increased 11.4 million voters from Bush the Older '92.

The Green Party in 1992 did not run a presidential candidate so gained 2.9 million voters from zero in 8 years.

That's 20.4 million aggregate increase. Add the 19.3 million to the 1 million extra voters you get 20.3 million. Again assuming every Republican and Democrat in 1992 remained one in 2000 to make statistical analysis easier, this is how the 3 parties split Perot's '92 vote and excess voters in 2000:

Bush 56%
Gore 30%
Nader 14%

[Compuzled_One]

https://twitter.com/jdawsey1/status/1773108514589757854

...What now?

[The Mikado]

No Labels has said several times that they want to choose a candidate by late April.

So...like...four weeks from now? Clock's really ticking at this point.

Starting to think No Labels just doesn't run a candidate at all just because no one who is anyone will do it. Either that or they abandon their R Pres D VP strat and pick Joe Cunningham Pres and some R nobody as VP. Cunningham at least seams to actually WANT it, which is more than you can say for just about anyone else.

[NYDem]

No Labels has said several times that they want to choose a candidate by late April.

So...like...four weeks from now? Clock's really ticking at this point.

Starting to think No Labels just doesn't run a candidate at all just because no one who is anyone will do it. Either that or they abandon their R Pres D VP strat and pick Joe Cunningham Pres and some R nobody as VP. Cunningham at least seams to actually WANT it, which is more than you can say for just about anyone else.

No Labels is going to fizzle out without a nominee, just like the Americans Elect campaign in 2012, the abortive NeverTrump candidacy in 2016 (which was only belatedly revived with Evan McMullin after the Access Hollywood debacle), and all that stupid talk in 2020 about a moderate Unity Ticket with Romney, Kasich, or Hogan.

[wbrocks67]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

Their obsessed with not letting Trump get elected (which third parties will do) so our democracy doesn't have the possibility of ending. Such terrible people!

[Open Source Intelligence]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

Their obsessed with not letting Trump get elected (which third parties will do) so our democracy doesn't have the possibility of ending. Such terrible people!

Then Biden should be a better candidate that appeals to more people with a better message that makes more people want to vote for him.

But no, the easy route is to just bar people from the ballot.

[Stranger in a strange land]

Wait, so did RFK Jr just choose a literal random woman as his running mate, or is she well known in circles that I don't follow?

[wbrocks67]

Dems are obsessed with stopping 3rd parties which is why less people buy their "democracy" stuff. I've never seen any other political party feel entitled to people's votes.

Their obsessed with not letting Trump get elected (which third parties will do) so our democracy doesn't have the possibility of ending. Such terrible people!

Then Biden should be a better candidate that appeals to more people with a better message that makes more people want to vote for him.

But no, the easy route is to just bar people from the ballot.

Pretty sure he objectively is. Sorry if you can't see that!