Russian protests; Navalny sentenced to 30 months

[Kingpoleon]

Yeah, Navalny is pretty much a Russian nationalist, which make up a significant share of the extremely diverse "anti-Putin coalition" in Russia which includes nationalists, socialists, conservatives, liberals, greens - who only have their detest of Putin in common.

There are a couple possibilities there, too. A sort of united front of dissident businessmen, nationalists, social democrats, conservatives, liberals, environmentalists, LGBT rights activists, and minorities may eventually topple Putin or his successor. The question is, which is best suited to keep the country relatively united? In my view, it is a nationalist with liberal tendencies who is most likely to sort of unite the country and even take in many of Putin’s former supporters. Navalny is such a man, and, as such, probably a future leader of Russia.

[2952-0-0]

https://twitter.com/Ukraine/status/1353374319548768258

[smoltchanov]

In short - i am very skeptical about Navalny, as i generally don't like populists (which he, undoubtely, is), but now we have no one better... But don't think about him as "pro-West liberal" - he isn't that type of person))))

[kelestian]

Oh, guys, Navalny isn't nationalist anymore, he is as pro-western liberal as russian politician can be. Navalny started as liberal, flirted with nationalists for some time in 2008-2011, but ended it after coming in big politics in 2011.

[Alben Barkley]

I’m hoping against hope this will lead somewhere. And even if it doesn’t today, maybe in the near future. We are seeing cracks in Putin’s regime that suggest maybe his grip on Russia isn’t as solid as we thought. A Russia that is at the least less authoritarian and corrupt, and at best is a sort-of ally of the West would be great, especially as China becomes more powerful.

[CumbrianLefty]

Yes, this particular outbreak of unrest seems to have caught most by surprise - as is often the case in authoritarian states. Would be nice if Orban's Hungary was next

[GMantis]

Putin is a sociopath who murdered his own people in the 1999 apartment bombings. I'd like to see him replaced, but hopefully by someone who wants to keep Russia independent instead of a "democratic" stooge like Yeltsin.

i'm well aware of this allegation, but has it actually been proved beyond reasonable doubt?

Depends on your definition of reasonable doubt.

The Wikipedia article has a pretty detailed rundown. Very abbreviated summary: apparent apartment building bomb discovered before detonation, prompting a city-wide emergency and hunt for the perpetrators. Half a day later, after the perpetrators were identified as FSB employees, the narrative did a very abrupt direction change to "this was all a security exercise".

Too detailed apparently, since you missed the part about how the supposed explosives failed to detonate when they were tested hours after they were discovered, well before "the narrative changed". Funnily enough, this is never mentioned by supporters of the conspiracy theory either, even to refute it...

[Alben Barkley]

F--k Putin.

https://twitter.com/fpleitgenCNN/status/1356510771086262272?s=20

[Kingpoleon]

Navalny has been sentenced to thirty months in jail.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1256440

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

https://twitter.com/BFreeTheatre/status/1356695037191606272

[Kingpoleon]

In short - i am very skeptical about Navalny, as i generally don't like populists (which he, undoubtely, is), but now we have no one better... But don't think about him as "pro-West liberal" - he isn't that type of person))))

What do you think of Yavlinsky’s criticism of him?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-politics-navalny-opposition-idUSKBN2AA2EK

[Samof94]

I’m hoping against hope this will lead somewhere. And even if it doesn’t today, maybe in the near future. We are seeing cracks in Putin’s regime that suggest maybe his grip on Russia isn’t as solid as we thought. A Russia that is at the least less authoritarian and corrupt, and at best is a sort-of ally of the West would be great, especially as China becomes more powerful.

Russia isn’t the USSR in the 1960’s in terms of its power and is at best a regional power.

[Farmlands]

https://amp.economist.com/europe/2021/04/16/alexei-navalny-desperately-ill-in-jail-is-still-putins-nemesis?

In news that shouldn't be a surprise to anyone, Navalny's health has significantly deteriorated while in prison, no doubt due to the lack of healthcare being provided to him. Anti-"western imperialism" justifications really won't fly here.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/1383454048762744843

[PSOL]

https://twitter.com/juliaioffe/status/1383454048762744843

Do you know what Sergei Udaltsov is up to?

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

https://twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1384103428436021254

[CumbrianLefty]

Things could get quite ugly if he actually dies?

[TiltsAreUnderrated]

Navalny is a deeply flawed man.

If Putin invades Hell, I’ll say something nice about the Devil himself.

This is ridiculous. He's not even the worst living dictator.

[Red Velvet]

Yeah, I think the guy will probably finally die. Unfortunately.

It’s surprising he managed to survive for so long tbh. I feel like every year there’s news of him suffering some attack, being poisoned, jailed, etc etc.

I don’t even know if he’s a better or worst option, all these attacks are enough to at least feel some sympathy for him.

[LM Brazilian Citizen]

I would not be surprised if he is being poisoned. It’s the specialty of the Putin’s administration to take revenge on his opponents and former allies.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

Yeah, I think the guy will probably finally die. Unfortunately.

It’s surprising he managed to survive for so long tbh. I feel like every year there’s news of him suffering some attack, being poisoned, jailed, etc etc.

I don’t even know if he’s a better or worst option, all these attacks are enough to at least feel some sympathy for him.

https://twitter.com/JonLemire/status/1385564589941788676

[PSOL]

Honestly, NATO seriously overstretched itself in attempting to do this war of attrition across the CIS. It pushed Belarus into ending its neutrality to be a vassal or Russia and just took all the energy away from the opposition in Russia. Literally only in Tajikistan did it “succeed”.

This sort of d!•• swinging and posturing is only going to raise it on the other side, and it has with the grandstanding towards Ukraine. What does all this get out of? Getting further into the chances of Nuclear war? Letting China rise through by turning Russia into a resource extraction zone for cheap?
Like it’s seriously unbelievable that I haven’t google-translated LURF’s page to gage what the Left is doing rn. By the looks of it, the Russian opposition is behaving similar to Egypt’s in having the main faction implode (MB/Navalny) while leaving the others relatively unscathed.

[Karpatsky]

Honestly, NATO seriously overstretched itself in attempting to do this war of attrition across the CIS. It pushed Belarus into ending its neutrality to be a vassal or Russia and just took all the energy away from the opposition in Russia. Literally only in Tajikistan did it “succeed”.

This sort of d!•• swinging and posturing is only going to raise it on the other side, and it has with the grandstanding towards Ukraine. What does all this get out of? Getting further into the chances of Nuclear war? Letting China rise through by turning Russia into a resource extraction zone for cheap?

   
I know you personally are too deep in your anti-anti-authoritarian news bubble to be convincible, but just in the interest of not leaving this unchallenged for everyone else - protests in Russia and Belarus are not the result of 'dickswinging and posturing' by NATO. This is a conspiracy theory propagated by those regimes in an attempt to delegitimize them in the eyes of the broader population and to justify their brutal repression. Some people are just tired of living under corrupt oligarchical autocracies and are willing to make some noise about it. (You would think socialists would be sympathetic to that, but life is strange sometimes.)

Not to mention - the current Russian government is very happy to sell raw materials to the West and to let the country become economically dependent on China. The West doesn't need a free government to import from an export-dependent state; just the opposite, efforts to stop Russian imperialism through sanctions and attempts to shut projects like Nordstream hamper its ability to get economic value from them.

[PSOL]

Honestly, NATO seriously overstretched itself in attempting to do this war of attrition across the CIS. It pushed Belarus into ending its neutrality to be a vassal or Russia and just took all the energy away from the opposition in Russia. Literally only in Tajikistan did it “succeed”.

This sort of d!•• swinging and posturing is only going to raise it on the other side, and it has with the grandstanding towards Ukraine. What does all this get out of? Getting further into the chances of Nuclear war? Letting China rise through by turning Russia into a resource extraction zone for cheap?

   
I know you personally are too deep in your anti-anti-authoritarian news bubble to be convincible, but just in the interest of not leaving this unchallenged for everyone else - protests in Russia and Belarus are not the result of 'dickswinging and posturing' by NATO. This is a conspiracy theory propagated by those regimes in an attempt to delegitimize them in the eyes of the broader population and to justify their brutal repression. Some people are just tired of living under corrupt oligarchical autocracies and are willing to make some noise about it. (You would think socialists would be sympathetic to that, but life is strange sometimes.)

Not to mention - the current Russian government is very happy to sell raw materials to the West and to let the country become economically dependent on China. The West doesn't need a free government to import from an export-dependent state; just the opposite, efforts to stop Russian imperialism through sanctions and attempts to shut projects like Nordstream hamper its ability to get economic value from them.

No man, I generally have an anti-anti-anti authoritarian line on these sorts of matters

In no way were the underlying conditions manufactured, I have never stated that these real grievances do not exist. I believe in this very thread I also supported the protests. However, it’s undeniable that the western media obsession over Navalny in particular rests on him being seen as the person who can do more damage to the current Russian regime, either making it too weak to have leverage in such negotiations with a new regime or weakening the existing one to have more leverage to extract profits.

I could point out the numerous examples where I actually did offer (critical) support “Western-backed” leaders on this  forum, but that’s besides the point. I mean, my comments weren’t even against the protests nor the fact that if this protest would have succeeded in its current form, a genocide would have commenced if Navalny saw the wind blowing there for his chances at power. I’m just pointing out that it’s clear that through social media and finances through various nonprofits, his astroturfing to the leadership was aided from forces outside of Russia.

Even still, knowing the stated info, I backed the protests because the right people backed it and I know that the elites need to get shivering and the people see what is possible for things to get moving.  However, considering I have relatives in jail or executed by the Akhundah’s Islamic Regime because of failure for the democratic forces to self-criticize and present themselves as better, yeah—pointing out the truth of the matter is vital than ever here now after the fact of the protests.

Now there’s a time and place to be United as an alliance for activists to seek their goals, but this sort of  kowtowing and hitching the ride to the most “presentable” face has historically screwed both my ancestral land twice, my current people in 2016, and would have made things worse in Eastern Europe.

[Vaccinated Russian Bear]

In the end Putin recognized that killing Navalny "would be worse than a crime, it would be a blunder".