Permit for the Keystone XL pipeline to be canceled on Biden's first day

[Starry Eyed Jagaloon]

It will be so good that America's President finally takes climate change seriously again, and he can lead the world rather than being left behind.

Can you explain how this helps with climate change? It just makes it more likely the oil at Cushing and other major terminals in Texas will be either domestic or from Venezuela/gulf states. It does not lower the amount of consumption of gasoline.

Sure. Domestic/Venezuelan/Gulf gas is way, way better for the environment than obscenely dirty tar sands oil. Everybody knows we're going to use oil in the 2020s, but we can at least not use tar sands oil. It's like the difference between anthracite and lignite coal. If we must use coal, using the former exclusively would least be less bad.

[GP270watch]

 This is one of the dirtiest sources of oil on the planet and a project that's funded by American and Canadian taxpayers and utility customers, glad Biden is killing this garbage.

[SWE]

RADICAL ECO SOCIALIST JOE BIDEN

based anprim joe

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Trudeau doesn't sound like a big fan of this.

[ProudModerate2]

Biden administration planning to take action on Keystone pipeline tomorrow, sources say.
From CNN's Dan Merica and Greg Krieg

Joe Biden’s incoming administration plans to rescind the permit for the Keystone XL pipeline on his first day in office, two sources familiar with the decision tell CNN, delivering a win to an array of progressive organization and rolling back one of President Trump’s earliest moves.

The decision was not included in a memo from incoming Biden chief of staff Ron Klain released on Saturday, but sources familiar with the move tell CNN that the Biden team intends to make the executive order one of the incoming President’s first climate change actions.

The pipeline has long been a political hot button and Trump made it a political issue during the 2016 general election. The Keystone Pipeline system current stretches more than 2,600 miles, carrying crude from Alberta, Canada through Manitoba, Canada and down into Texas. The Keystone XL portion, which has been protested and opposed by numerous indigenous groups, would run from Alberta to Nebraska and cut through Montana and North Dakota.

The Supreme Court delivered a substantial blow to the project in 2020 when they cleared the way for several pipeline projects to be receive fast-tracked permits, but excluded the Keystone XL pipeline from that order.

The decision to put a block on the cross-border pipeline was first reported by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, citing a presentation that included “Rescind Keystone XL pipeline permit” in the list of environmental executive actions Biden would take on his first day.

The Biden transition declined to comment on the plans. A source familiar with the decision, however, said that the presentation reported by the CBC was weeks old.

Trump signed executive actions at the outset of his administration that approved the Keystone XL pipeline, dispensing with plans from the Obama era to block construction.

[GoTfan]

It will be so good that America's President finally takes climate change seriously again, and he can lead the world rather than being left behind.

Can you explain how this helps with climate change? It just makes it more likely the oil at Cushing and other major terminals in Texas will be either domestic or from Venezuela/gulf states. It does not lower the amount of consumption of gasoline.

Sure. Domestic/Venezuelan/Gulf gas is way, way better for the environment than obscenely dirty tar sands oil. Everybody knows we're going to use oil in the 2020s, but we can at least not use tar sands oil. It's like the difference between anthracite and lignite coal. If we must use coal, using the former exclusively would least be less bad.

And cutting back where we can.

I have my misgivings towards Biden, but between AOC writing his climate policy and the fact that he's made a green recovery one of his key pledges, I think we're in decent hands, if not safe ones.

[Crane]

Great news.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

It will be so good that America's President finally takes climate change seriously again, and he can lead the world rather than being left behind.

Can you explain how this helps with climate change? It just makes it more likely the oil at Cushing and other major terminals in Texas will be either domestic or from Venezuela/gulf states. It does not lower the amount of consumption of gasoline.

Sure. Domestic/Venezuelan/Gulf gas is way, way better for the environment than obscenely dirty tar sands oil. Everybody knows we're going to use oil in the 2020s, but we can at least not use tar sands oil. It's like the difference between anthracite and lignite coal. If we must use coal, using the former exclusively would least be less bad.

Anthracite is sufficiently rare and has other uses besides power generation. It's too expensive to use for electricity generation. Conversely, lignite is primarily useful only for electricity generation, but has such a low carbon content that it is economically viable only for use near the mine. As far as global warming is concerned, there's little difference in the CO₂ output per Kwh between the various grades of coal. The difference in ecological impact between coal types is primarily due to the non-carbon content of the coal and the more traditional types of pollution that result.

In any case, the economics of electricity generation using coal are such that it's already a dying industry.  Indeed, finance types distinguish between companies that produce metallurgical coal and those that produce thermal coal because the former have, at least for now, a future, while the latter have none.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

This is one of the dirtiest sources of oil on the planet and a project that's funded by American and Canadian taxpayers and utility customers, glad Biden is killing this garbage.

Exactly how are American taxpayers funding this? I know Canadian ones are because of the stupidity of Alberta's premier, but I am not aware of any Keystone specific funding by American governments.

[PSOL]

Native Americans will swing heavily toward the Democratic Party in 2024, and for good reason too.

[Grumpier Than Uncle Joe]

Native Americans will swing heavily toward the Democratic Party in 2024, and for good reason too.

Is there data on how many of them vote?  I mean like an approximate number?

[GP270watch]

This is one of the dirtiest sources of oil on the planet and a project that's funded by American and Canadian taxpayers and utility customers, glad Biden is killing this garbage.

Exactly how are American taxpayers funding this? I know Canadian ones are because of the stupidity of Alberta's premier, but I am not aware of any Keystone specific funding by American governments.

 The American government has been funding this pipeline through American Banks and American public utility customers got price increases because of the pipeline, for infrastructure "improvements".

[Santander]

Native Americans will swing heavily toward the Democratic Party in 2024, and for good reason too.

They already vote D almost as much as African-Americans do.

[🐒Gods of Prosperity🔱🐲💸]

Native Americans will swing heavily toward the Democratic Party in 2024, and for good reason too.

They already vote D almost as much as African-Americans do.

Those in the Dakotas do anyway.   And those in AK or OK are not swinging D due to this.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

This is one of the dirtiest sources of oil on the planet and a project that's funded by American and Canadian taxpayers and utility customers, glad Biden is killing this garbage.

Exactly how are American taxpayers funding this? I know Canadian ones are because of the stupidity of Alberta's premier, but I am not aware of any Keystone specific funding by American governments.

 The American government has been funding this pipeline through American Banks and American public utility customers got price increases because of the pipeline, for infrastructure "improvements".

"Utility customers" is not the same as "taxpayers" ; I wasn't aware that any government had forced any American bank to provide financing to this project; and as far as utility price increases are concerned, I think that perhaps you're confusing this pipeline with the Atlantic Coast Pipeline for natural gas. The Keystroke Pipelines don't have anything to do with utilities to begin with. Oil is almost never used for electricity generation these days.

[PSOL]

Native Americans will swing heavily toward the Democratic Party in 2024, and for good reason too.

They already vote D almost as much as African-Americans do.

Yes, but I believe they have far lower turnout

[DINGO Joe]

The pipeline was basically dead anyway, wasn't it?

yes

Just to actually expand on this, it was totally dead because the poverty stricken oil industry didn't have anyone left who thought it was worth spending money on anymore, as the oil landscape had changed dramatically since the XL was first proposed.  The success of fracking and the expansion/repurpose of other pipeliines left no one interested in putting their own money into the project anymore.  However.....along comes a new Premier in Alberta who was willing to commit taxpayer money (1.1B) and loan guarantees (4.2B) to jump start the project and it turns out that there are corporations willing to take government money to do stuff that doesn't put their financial ass on the line.

Anyway, it seems that the Alberta premier has already reached the acceptance phase as he's already talking about selling the pipe for scrap to reduce the cost to taxpayers

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/keystone-xl-may-sold-scrap-203840567.html

[MaxQue]

Also, the independence from the Saudi argument doesn't work anymore, USA produces like 95% of its use already.

[DINGO Joe]

Also, the independence from the Saudi argument doesn't work anymore, USA produces like 95% of its use already.

Well, even if you count Canada as part of American oil that's not entirely true as quite a bit of oil flows into the US and then goes out as finished product.   But, yes the Keystone XL was important to Albertan oil interests but not so much to the US. 

[GP270watch]

This is one of the dirtiest sources of oil on the planet and a project that's funded by American and Canadian taxpayers and utility customers, glad Biden is killing this garbage.

Exactly how are American taxpayers funding this? I know Canadian ones are because of the stupidity of Alberta's premier, but I am not aware of any Keystone specific funding by American governments.

 The American government has been funding this pipeline through American Banks and American public utility customers got price increases because of the pipeline, for infrastructure "improvements".

"Utility customers" is not the same as "taxpayers"

 Who said they were? I clearly said both. Also try to understand how banking works. If The United States lends big banks money for near nothing to fund infrastructure projects that will also receive subsidies and tax breaks, that means the US taxpayer is also paying for this pipeline.

[Brittain33]

Native Americans will swing heavily toward the Democratic Party in 2024, and for good reason too.

Do they have further to swing? They voted so effectively for Biden already, delivering him Arizona.

[R.P. McM]

Biden's administration is being smart by finally acknowledging the nation's indigenous communities. They're a big reason why Democrats like him are able to win Arizona after all, he certainly owes them (actually, we all owe them!) and this is a great start.

If a GOP president wins in 2025, or 2029, they would just open back the permit. I know Kristi Noem would do that in a jiffy.

I think that's largely irrelevant. Because if you derail one of these projects for four or eight years, it's effectively dead. And that should be the Democratic environmental strategy going forward. Quickly reverse the policies of a GOP administration, leaving the investors on the hook. Pretend it never happened, and corporate America will have to proactively follow suit.

[darklordoftech]

Where did Obama stand on this?

[MaxQue]

Where did Obama stand on this?

Obama did refuse approval for Keystone XL and the project was considred killed. One of Trump's first executive orders was to revive the project (same order also revived Dakota Access).

[Agafin]

Native Americans will swing heavily toward the Democratic Party in 2024, and for good reason too.

Do they have further to swing? They voted so effectively for Biden already, delivering him Arizona.

This is a bit off-topic but there's something I don't get about the native american voting pattern. If one looks at voting results from reserves they'd assume that >90% of native americans vote D. But looking at exit polls, the "other" category is always the best for the Rs after whites. Now I know "other" includes races like Pacific Islander, Native Alaskans and multiracial individuals but even limiting myself to states where the vast majority of "other" ought to be native americans, I still get very R friendly results (for example, 49% in Arizona based on the fox exit polls). No matter how bad exit polls are, they can't be that off (and consistently at that), so what am I missing here? Are the natives that live out of reserves strongly republican or something?