is flying a confederate flag a "redneck pride" thing or just being "racist"?

[Velasco]

Possibly both. The Deep South portrayed by William Faulkner is not a racially inclusive place, to put it mildly

[JGibson]

Racist big time.

[Person Man]

It’s a hate symbol but that doesn’t mean the person flying it is racist. Maybe they are just ignorant (or just like the way the flag looks like when Spike wore the SS officer uniform in Angel).

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Reminder that the modern display of the Confederate flag was a response to the Civil Rights movement in the 50s/60s.

Like, South Carolina began flying the flag at the state capitol in 1962, nearly 100 years after the Civil War.

It is a symbol of racism, unquestionably.

Mississippi adopted that flag due to Lost Cause beliefs. The Lost Cause is about as valid as Holocaust Denial.

I never really understood what the Lost Cause was.

What exactly is it? I know it's about the South and the Civil Wae, but what exactly it is never seemed clear.

Essentially that the Confederacy’s fight in the Civil War was a heroic, but ultimately doomed, cause, struggling to preserve the “noble” Southern way of life and the institution of slavery (which they held was actually better for slaves than being free), but that the South, in spite of its superior chivalry and horsemanship, was always going to lose against the more industrialised North.

As you can see, a load of BS.

Besides which, the Lost Causers are the ones who started the canard about the South fighting for "states' rights" (despite the leaders of the Confederacy and indeed rank-and-file Confederate soldiers being very clear in their speeches and writings that the CSA was fighting to preserve slavery) and recast the Civil War as the "War of Northern Aggression" (again despite the historical evidence). Modern day Lost Causers typically deny that slavery was a primary motive for secession and try to portray the Confederacy as following in the glorious footsteps of the Founding Fathers, fighting for independence from a tyrannical government which had subjected them to oppressive taxes and monopolistic policies (literally none of this is true, lol). In this version of history, slavery either wasn't that bad or was already on it's way out, making war to abolish it unnecessary. They will frequently try to represent Confederates like Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson as being abolitionism-curious, despite the actual primary evidence confirming both men believed slavery was necessary to "civilize" black people.

[LBJer]

Probably my favorite anecdote from the Confederate flag debate was a conversation I had with an elderly gentleman with a thick Southern accent dressed in overalls and a red t-shirt, who said of the Confederacy, "I think they're traitors, and the people who fly that flag today are traitors and terrorists."

This is true, but Americans complaining about rebel traitors is just a bit much.

Canada took are traitors then, would you like the latest batch?

The patriots were the traitors in the Revolutionary War, not the loyalists.

[DINGO Joe]

Probably my favorite anecdote from the Confederate flag debate was a conversation I had with an elderly gentleman with a thick Southern accent dressed in overalls and a red t-shirt, who said of the Confederacy, "I think they're traitors, and the people who fly that flag today are traitors and terrorists."

This is true, but Americans complaining about rebel traitors is just a bit much.

Canada took are traitors then, would you like the latest batch?

The patriots were the traitors in the Revolutionary War, not the loyalists.

Winners write history.

[LBJer]

Probably my favorite anecdote from the Confederate flag debate was a conversation I had with an elderly gentleman with a thick Southern accent dressed in overalls and a red t-shirt, who said of the Confederacy, "I think they're traitors, and the people who fly that flag today are traitors and terrorists."

This is true, but Americans complaining about rebel traitors is just a bit much.

Canada took are traitors then, would you like the latest batch?

The patriots were the traitors in the Revolutionary War, not the loyalists.

Winners write history.

First of all, that's not always true.  Former Confederates and Confederate sympathizers wrote a great deal of Civil War history, for example.  Secondly, writing history doesn't mean writing accurate history.  If the Loyalists were traitors, then the term "traitor" is simply an empty partisan label with no meaning.  Why exactly were the Loyalists obligated to support an insurrection launched by their fellow citizens that they didn't agree with?   It's like saying that if Donald Trump and the mob that attacked the Capitol managed to establish a dictatorship, I would morally owe that government allegiance even though it was created over my extreme opposition and had overthrown the government that I really DID owe allegiance to. 

[RINO Tom]

I know the question is about what it is now, but I cannot help but wonder how disappointed the ancestors to modern Northern rednecks who fly this flag would be.  Patriotic fervor to fight the Confederacy and preserve the Union was SIGNIFICANTLY higher in rural areas of the North than in large urban areas like Boston and NYC.  There was absolutely no problem with being "culturally conservative" or "traditionalist" or espousing a preference for a "rural way of life" and being proud to fight for the Union.  If anything, it was the opposite.

[🦀🎂🦀🎂]

One of the weirdest stories about the flag's post civil war life is that it maintained its cultural ties with Appalachian workers in the Chicago area. Meaning when Fred Hampton started forming his Rainbow Coalition, one of the key groups that were brought into the fold were the Young Patriots, a leftist organization of Southern workers. Meaning you had the weird spectacle of Confederate flags being flown cheerfully alongside SDS slogans and Black Panthers. I wonder what Jefferson Davis would have made of that lol.

[John Dule]

Both. Hard to say which is worse.

[DINGO Joe]

Probably my favorite anecdote from the Confederate flag debate was a conversation I had with an elderly gentleman with a thick Southern accent dressed in overalls and a red t-shirt, who said of the Confederacy, "I think they're traitors, and the people who fly that flag today are traitors and terrorists."

This is true, but Americans complaining about rebel traitors is just a bit much.

Canada took are traitors then, would you like the latest batch?

The patriots were the traitors in the Revolutionary War, not the loyalists.

Winners write history.

First of all, that's not always true.  Former Confederates and Confederate sympathizers wrote a great deal of Civil War history, for example.  Secondly, writing history doesn't mean writing accurate history.  If the Loyalists were traitors, then the term "traitor" is simply an empty partisan label with no meaning.  Why exactly were the Loyalists obligated to support an insurrection launched by their fellow citizens that they didn't agree with?   It's like saying that if Donald Trump and the mob that attacked the Capitol managed to establish a dictatorship, I would morally owe that government allegiance even though it was created over my extreme opposition and had overthrown the government that I really DID owe allegiance to. 

Good point about history writing.   Would have been better off if the Confederates really had all fled to South America.

Wonder how any loyalists who didn't fled were treated during the War of 1812.

[Samof94]

Probably my favorite anecdote from the Confederate flag debate was a conversation I had with an elderly gentleman with a thick Southern accent dressed in overalls and a red t-shirt, who said of the Confederacy, "I think they're traitors, and the people who fly that flag today are traitors and terrorists."

This is true, but Americans complaining about rebel traitors is just a bit much.

Canada took are traitors then, would you like the latest batch?

The patriots were the traitors in the Revolutionary War, not the loyalists.

Winners write history.

First of all, that's not always true.  Former Confederates and Confederate sympathizers wrote a great deal of Civil War history, for example.  Secondly, writing history doesn't mean writing accurate history.  If the Loyalists were traitors, then the term "traitor" is simply an empty partisan label with no meaning.  Why exactly were the Loyalists obligated to support an insurrection launched by their fellow citizens that they didn't agree with?   It's like saying that if Donald Trump and the mob that attacked the Capitol managed to establish a dictatorship, I would morally owe that government allegiance even though it was created over my extreme opposition and had overthrown the government that I really DID owe allegiance to. 

Good point about history writing.   Would have been better off if the Confederates really had all fled to South America.

Wonder how any loyalists who didn't fled were treated during the War of 1812.

Imagine Brazil being anglicized somewhat even though it’d still be Portuguese speaking and that is what I’m imagining with that outcome.

[boltzy_]

People did originally fly the flag because they're racist, but the meaning of the flag has changed since Jim Crow. I think it's just hillbillies being hillbillies and waving the flag out of a sense of Southern pride and identity, and also to spite us Yankees. For the record: I don't support having the flag anywhere on government property and I think someone who keeps the flag hanging somewhere on their property is misguided at best and stupid at worst.

[💥💥 brandon bro (he/him/his)]

I think there's definitely a form of "rural identity" where racism is almost surely a cornerstone but it's folded in with several other non-racist anxieties and frustrations, e.g., general anti-cosmopolitanism and (yes) relative status anxiety. These attitudes definitely have racist strains to them but at this point I think they fall under a larger umbrella of grievances than simply race. This lack of identifiability makes it hard to separate out these two things (and obviously there's context dependence) which makes this question hard to answer.

[AlterEgo]

I think it's a cultural symbol for many and I don't believe every person that has a Confederate flag does not like black people.  I think it's been mainstreamed as not just "Southern" or "country" but also as "rebel" and "outlaw".  

Living in Pennsylvania for a long time, I saw a lot of them and that was a Union state!

I would never wear a Confederate flag or carry it around or fly it from my house, but I know of people who live in houses with them and are either good friends with black people or do support civil rights for all races.

"I've got a black friend so I can't be racist."

[Samof94]

I think it's a cultural symbol for many and I don't believe every person that has a Confederate flag does not like black people.  I think it's been mainstreamed as not just "Southern" or "country" but also as "rebel" and "outlaw".  

Living in Pennsylvania for a long time, I saw a lot of them and that was a Union state!

I would never wear a Confederate flag or carry it around or fly it from my house, but I know of people who live in houses with them and are either good friends with black people or do support civil rights for all races.

"I've got a black friend so I can't be racist."

Or even worse, a black person flying and defending the flag.

[Unconditional Surrender Truman]

Probably my favorite anecdote from the Confederate flag debate was a conversation I had with an elderly gentleman with a thick Southern accent dressed in overalls and a red t-shirt, who said of the Confederacy, "I think they're traitors, and the people who fly that flag today are traitors and terrorists."

This is true, but Americans complaining about rebel traitors is just a bit much.

Canada took are traitors then, would you like the latest batch?

The patriots were the traitors in the Revolutionary War, not the loyalists.

Winners write history.

First of all, that's not always true.  Former Confederates and Confederate sympathizers wrote a great deal of Civil War history, for example.  Secondly, writing history doesn't mean writing accurate history.  If the Loyalists were traitors, then the term "traitor" is simply an empty partisan label with no meaning.  Why exactly were the Loyalists obligated to support an insurrection launched by their fellow citizens that they didn't agree with?   It's like saying that if Donald Trump and the mob that attacked the Capitol managed to establish a dictatorship, I would morally owe that government allegiance even though it was created over my extreme opposition and had overthrown the government that I really DID owe allegiance to. 

Good point about history writing.   Would have been better off if the Confederates really had all fled to South America.

Wonder how any loyalists who didn't fled were treated during the War of 1812.

Some of them did.

[DINGO Joe]

Good point about history writing.   Would have been better off if the Confederates really had all fled to South America.

Wonder how any loyalists who didn't flee were treated during the War of 1812.

Some of them did.

Well, that's why i said all

[Samof94]

Probably my favorite anecdote from the Confederate flag debate was a conversation I had with an elderly gentleman with a thick Southern accent dressed in overalls and a red t-shirt, who said of the Confederacy, "I think they're traitors, and the people who fly that flag today are traitors and terrorists."

This is true, but Americans complaining about rebel traitors is just a bit much.

Canada took are traitors then, would you like the latest batch?

The patriots were the traitors in the Revolutionary War, not the loyalists.

Winners write history.

First of all, that's not always true.  Former Confederates and Confederate sympathizers wrote a great deal of Civil War history, for example.  Secondly, writing history doesn't mean writing accurate history.  If the Loyalists were traitors, then the term "traitor" is simply an empty partisan label with no meaning.  Why exactly were the Loyalists obligated to support an insurrection launched by their fellow citizens that they didn't agree with?   It's like saying that if Donald Trump and the mob that attacked the Capitol managed to establish a dictatorship, I would morally owe that government allegiance even though it was created over my extreme opposition and had overthrown the government that I really DID owe allegiance to. 

Good point about history writing.   Would have been better off if the Confederates really had all fled to South America.

Wonder how any loyalists who didn't fled were treated during the War of 1812.

Some of them did.

Confederate flags(and all the things you’d think of)are a thing in Brazil, except all in Portuguese of course.

[Big Abraham]

Probably my favorite anecdote from the Confederate flag debate was a conversation I had with an elderly gentleman with a thick Southern accent dressed in overalls and a red t-shirt, who said of the Confederacy, "I think they're traitors, and the people who fly that flag today are traitors and terrorists."

This is true, but Americans complaining about rebel traitors is just a bit much.

Canada took are traitors then, would you like the latest batch?

The patriots were the traitors in the Revolutionary War, not the loyalists.

Winners write history.

First of all, that's not always true.  Former Confederates and Confederate sympathizers wrote a great deal of Civil War history, for example.  Secondly, writing history doesn't mean writing accurate history.  If the Loyalists were traitors, then the term "traitor" is simply an empty partisan label with no meaning.  Why exactly were the Loyalists obligated to support an insurrection launched by their fellow citizens that they didn't agree with?   It's like saying that if Donald Trump and the mob that attacked the Capitol managed to establish a dictatorship, I would morally owe that government allegiance even though it was created over my extreme opposition and had overthrown the government that I really DID owe allegiance to. 

Good point about history writing.   Would have been better off if the Confederates really had all fled to South America.

Wonder how any loyalists who didn't fled were treated during the War of 1812.

Some of them did.

Confederate flags(and all the things you’d think of)are a thing in Brazil, except all in Portuguese of course.

I'm guessing it's because of these guys?

[Samof94]

Probably my favorite anecdote from the Confederate flag debate was a conversation I had with an elderly gentleman with a thick Southern accent dressed in overalls and a red t-shirt, who said of the Confederacy, "I think they're traitors, and the people who fly that flag today are traitors and terrorists."

This is true, but Americans complaining about rebel traitors is just a bit much.

Canada took are traitors then, would you like the latest batch?

The patriots were the traitors in the Revolutionary War, not the loyalists.

Winners write history.

First of all, that's not always true.  Former Confederates and Confederate sympathizers wrote a great deal of Civil War history, for example.  Secondly, writing history doesn't mean writing accurate history.  If the Loyalists were traitors, then the term "traitor" is simply an empty partisan label with no meaning.  Why exactly were the Loyalists obligated to support an insurrection launched by their fellow citizens that they didn't agree with?   It's like saying that if Donald Trump and the mob that attacked the Capitol managed to establish a dictatorship, I would morally owe that government allegiance even though it was created over my extreme opposition and had overthrown the government that I really DID owe allegiance to. 

Good point about history writing.   Would have been better off if the Confederates really had all fled to South America.

Wonder how any loyalists who didn't fled were treated during the War of 1812.

Some of them did.

Confederate flags(and all the things you’d think of)are a thing in Brazil, except all in Portuguese of course.

I'm guessing it's because of these guys?

True, quite true. The same country was later home to Mengele.

[beaver2.0]

Both.  Personally, I would never fly it as it symbolizes a government founded to preserve racially-based slavery with no redeeming values but recognize that there are more than a few people that don't fly it because they want to show they hate everyone that's not white.

[Amenhotep Bakari-Sellers]

WC D's were the states rights party until 1964 and after that since Reagan the Rs have took them on

Lee Oswald is the cuz of General Lee he was named so, the parties switched places

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

It’s a hate symbol but that doesn’t mean the person flying it is racist. Maybe they are just ignorant (or just like the way the flag looks like when Spike wore the SS officer uniform in Angel).

Spoilers. I'm only in S3 of Buffy.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Fun fact, to celebrate my Loyalist ancestors, I brought a sheet cake decorated in the original Union Jack to a Fourth of July potuck.



Tho to be fair, my use of the historically correct flag was more because it was easier to decorate than the current Union Jack than historic pedantry.