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January 20, 2021, 04:02:09 AM
News: Chaos in the capitol: https://talkelections.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=422360

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Author Topic: Opinion of Del Tachi?  (Read 1504 times)
Chips
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« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2021, 02:28:48 PM »

FF.
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Alcibiades
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« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2021, 02:35:09 PM »


Basically that Democrats are to blame for Republicans wanting to do this and that if the mob no longer trusts American democracy, our country deserves to be torn down and rebuilt from the ashes. Basically the worst possible fusion of resentment politics and social contract theory.

This was the most egregious part of what he said:
Plus no building is no important than the Capitol. That's just sacred. You don't touch that.

It's great when the neolibs' masks slip just enough that you can plainly see that their true fidelity is to mere physical presentations of state power (i.e., literal buildings) and other objects, lol.  Power resides in people, not buildings.  If the U.S. Capitol ever becomes a symbol of a system of civil government that does not serve the best interests of the people, then it will deserve to be burned to the ground.

Like I said, if Joe Biden had any balls (like I wish he did), he would be declaring provisional government and martial law tonight.  Would he, if successful, destory the system of government that keeps Republicans artifically in power?  Probably yes, but that's the price that has to be paid to reconstitute our belief in a government that works for "the majority" (defined however the mob wishes.)  This isn't a Republican or Democrat thing, it's a matter of renewing our right to self-determination and refreshing the civil state (which really hasn't been seriously updated since the New Deal/WWII.)     

Scott, once again, captures my thoughts on today's happenings almost perfectly:

Quote from: Senator Scott link=topic=422360.msg7874637
The system is broken and it needs to be rebuilt from the ground-up. I don't care who sparks it, but this is actually a moment for the disenfranchised and the cynics on both the left and right to retake the country for ourselves.

That the mob, as some sort of reward for their actions, should be allowed to dictate exactly how a new American system of government will work. Saying that a few thousand violent extremists should be allowed to impose their agenda unilaterally on the rest of the country? That’s not clever, sophisticated or intellectual. It’s just straight up moronic.

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Metallica Christian
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« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2021, 02:37:23 PM »

That the mob, as some sort of reward for their actions, should be allowed to dictate exactly how a new American system of government will work. Saying that a few thousand violent extremists should be able to impose their agenda unilaterally on the rest of the country? Thatís not clever, sophisticated or intellectual. Itís just straight up moronic.

Oclocracy is definitely moronic, but I don't see why it can't be sophisticated and intellectual as well.
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Blairite
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« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2021, 02:41:50 PM »


Basically that Democrats are to blame for Republicans wanting to do this and that if the mob no longer trusts American democracy, our country deserves to be torn down and rebuilt from the ashes. Basically the worst possible fusion of resentment politics and social contract theory.

This was the most egregious part of what he said:
Plus no building is no important than the Capitol. That's just sacred. You don't touch that.

It's great when the neolibs' masks slip just enough that you can plainly see that their true fidelity is to mere physical presentations of state power (i.e., literal buildings) and other objects, lol.  Power resides in people, not buildings.  If the U.S. Capitol ever becomes a symbol of a system of civil government that does not serve the best interests of the people, then it will deserve to be burned to the ground.

Like I said, if Joe Biden had any balls (like I wish he did), he would be declaring provisional government and martial law tonight.  Would he, if successful, destory the system of government that keeps Republicans artifically in power?  Probably yes, but that's the price that has to be paid to reconstitute our belief in a government that works for "the majority" (defined however the mob wishes.)  This isn't a Republican or Democrat thing, it's a matter of renewing our right to self-determination and refreshing the civil state (which really hasn't been seriously updated since the New Deal/WWII.)     

Scott, once again, captures my thoughts on today's happenings almost perfectly:

Quote from: Senator Scott link=topic=422360.msg7874637
The system is broken and it needs to be rebuilt from the ground-up. I don't care who sparks it, but this is actually a moment for the disenfranchised and the cynics on both the left and right to retake the country for ourselves.

That the mob, as some sort of reward for their actions, should be allowed to dictate exactly how a new American system of government will work. Saying that a few thousand violent extremists should be allowed to impose their agenda unilaterally on the rest of the country? Thatís not clever, sophisticated or intellectual. Itís just straight up moronic.

Not only that, but he's also basically arguing for absolute majoritarian rule with no protections for the political minority. No procedure, no constitution, just mob rule. That's how liberalism dies. Plus his (and Scott's) take that the system is fundamentally broken and that we should welcome violence as an opportunity for revolution is just dumb.
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Metallica Christian
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« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2021, 02:47:19 PM »

Not only that, but he's also basically arguing for absolute majoritarian rule with no protections for the political minority. No procedure, no constitution, just mob rule. That's how liberalism dies. Plus his (and Scott's) take that the system is fundamentally broken and that we should welcome violence as an opportunity for revolution is just dumb.

Liberalism Dies In Darkness

(if I recall correctly you are a fan of the Washington Post right?)
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Blairite
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« Reply #30 on: January 12, 2021, 02:48:10 PM »

Not only that, but he's also basically arguing for absolute majoritarian rule with no protections for the political minority. No procedure, no constitution, just mob rule. That's how liberalism dies. Plus his (and Scott's) take that the system is fundamentally broken and that we should welcome violence as an opportunity for revolution is just dumb.

Liberalism Dies In Darkness

(if I recall correctly you are a fan of the Washington Post right?)

It is my go-to news source, yes.
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Santander
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« Reply #31 on: January 12, 2021, 02:50:51 PM »

Not only that, but he's also basically arguing for absolute majoritarian rule with no protections for the political minority. No procedure, no constitution, just mob rule. That's how liberalism dies. Plus his (and Scott's) take that the system is fundamentally broken and that we should welcome violence as an opportunity for revolution is just dumb.

Liberalism Dies In Darkness

(if I recall correctly you are a fan of the Washington Post right?)

It is my go-to news source, yes.

f**king puke-worthy.
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Alcibiades
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« Reply #32 on: January 12, 2021, 03:15:26 PM »

That the mob, as some sort of reward for their actions, should be allowed to dictate exactly how a new American system of government will work. Saying that a few thousand violent extremists should be able to impose their agenda unilaterally on the rest of the country? Thatís not clever, sophisticated or intellectual. Itís just straight up moronic.

Oclocracy is definitely moronic, but I don't see why it can't be sophisticated and intellectual as well.

This particular example comes across as someone so desperately trying to be contrarian and defend the indefensible that they end up with an argument that is completely intellectually incoherent. More broadly, Del Tachi frequently engages in sophistry, which while it can be appear to be clever and sophisticated, is ultimately totally intellectually vacuous.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #33 on: January 12, 2021, 07:20:58 PM »


Basically that Democrats are to blame for Republicans wanting to do this and that if the mob no longer trusts American democracy, our country deserves to be torn down and rebuilt from the ashes. Basically the worst possible fusion of resentment politics and social contract theory.

This was the most egregious part of what he said:
Plus no building is no important than the Capitol. That's just sacred. You don't touch that.

It's great when the neolibs' masks slip just enough that you can plainly see that their true fidelity is to mere physical presentations of state power (i.e., literal buildings) and other objects, lol.  Power resides in people, not buildings.  If the U.S. Capitol ever becomes a symbol of a system of civil government that does not serve the best interests of the people, then it will deserve to be burned to the ground.

Like I said, if Joe Biden had any balls (like I wish he did), he would be declaring provisional government and martial law tonight.  Would he, if successful, destory the system of government that keeps Republicans artifically in power?  Probably yes, but that's the price that has to be paid to reconstitute our belief in a government that works for "the majority" (defined however the mob wishes.)  This isn't a Republican or Democrat thing, it's a matter of renewing our right to self-determination and refreshing the civil state (which really hasn't been seriously updated since the New Deal/WWII.)     

Scott, once again, captures my thoughts on today's happenings almost perfectly:

Quote from: Senator Scott link=topic=422360.msg7874637
The system is broken and it needs to be rebuilt from the ground-up. I don't care who sparks it, but this is actually a moment for the disenfranchised and the cynics on both the left and right to retake the country for ourselves.

That the mob, as some sort of reward for their actions, should be allowed to dictate exactly how a new American system of government will work. Saying that a few thousand violent extremists should be allowed to impose their agenda unilaterally on the rest of the country? Thatís not clever, sophisticated or intellectual. Itís just straight up moronic.

I will commit one of Atlas' cardinal sins and post in my own "opinion of" thread.

FWIW, the "mob" I was referring to in my post was not the mob breeching the Capitol but a more abstract "mob" representing the prevailing majoritarian opinion.  Last week's aimless, selfie-taking group of rioters never seriously threatened to decapitate our system of Constitutional government.  For that to have happened, it would have taken something quite more spectacular:  contemporaneous uprisings around the country, a military/LEO "stand down," inaction on the part of our NATO allies, etc.  We never even approached that point; not even the same universe, even.

But...play with the thought experiment I posited in the Capitol riot thread.  What if Biden went on national TV after the riots and said "These are dangerous insurrectionists.  The current president empowered them.  I have a popular mandate.  I will assume power immediately.  I ask the military, Federal bureaucracies and American people to support me."  If the outcome is most Americans and the armed forces recognizing Biden's authority...then who really is "the mob" in that situation? 

Political power is an amorphous thing.  It cannot inhabit marble columns or 230-year old scraps of paper (which is why all the "Oh!  Not our CaPiToL" pearl-clutching was so off-putting.)  Political power can only reside within "the fickle crowd"; our civil institutions only persist because enough people do not try to physically overrun them, if it ever becomes *not enough then these institutions are deserving of being replaced, perhaps even violently. 
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KaiserDave
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« Reply #34 on: January 12, 2021, 08:35:10 PM »


Basically that Democrats are to blame for Republicans wanting to do this and that if the mob no longer trusts American democracy, our country deserves to be torn down and rebuilt from the ashes. Basically the worst possible fusion of resentment politics and social contract theory.

This was the most egregious part of what he said:
Plus no building is no important than the Capitol. That's just sacred. You don't touch that.

It's great when the neolibs' masks slip just enough that you can plainly see that their true fidelity is to mere physical presentations of state power (i.e., literal buildings) and other objects, lol.  Power resides in people, not buildings.  If the U.S. Capitol ever becomes a symbol of a system of civil government that does not serve the best interests of the people, then it will deserve to be burned to the ground.

Like I said, if Joe Biden had any balls (like I wish he did), he would be declaring provisional government and martial law tonight.  Would he, if successful, destory the system of government that keeps Republicans artifically in power?  Probably yes, but that's the price that has to be paid to reconstitute our belief in a government that works for "the majority" (defined however the mob wishes.)  This isn't a Republican or Democrat thing, it's a matter of renewing our right to self-determination and refreshing the civil state (which really hasn't been seriously updated since the New Deal/WWII.)     

Scott, once again, captures my thoughts on today's happenings almost perfectly:

Quote from: Senator Scott link=topic=422360.msg7874637
The system is broken and it needs to be rebuilt from the ground-up. I don't care who sparks it, but this is actually a moment for the disenfranchised and the cynics on both the left and right to retake the country for ourselves.

That the mob, as some sort of reward for their actions, should be allowed to dictate exactly how a new American system of government will work. Saying that a few thousand violent extremists should be allowed to impose their agenda unilaterally on the rest of the country? Thatís not clever, sophisticated or intellectual. Itís just straight up moronic.

I will commit one of Atlas' cardinal sins and post in my own "opinion of" thread.

FWIW, the "mob" I was referring to in my post was not the mob breeching the Capitol but a more abstract "mob" representing the prevailing majoritarian opinion.  Last week's aimless, selfie-taking group of rioters never seriously threatened to decapitate our system of Constitutional government.  For that to have happened, it would have taken something quite more spectacular:  contemporaneous uprisings around the country, a military/LEO "stand down," inaction on the part of our NATO allies, etc.  We never even approached that point; not even the same universe, even.

But...play with the thought experiment I posited in the Capitol riot thread.  What if Biden went on national TV after the riots and said "These are dangerous insurrectionists.  The current president empowered them.  I have a popular mandate.  I will assume power immediately.  I ask the military, Federal bureaucracies and American people to support me."  If the outcome is most Americans and the armed forces recognizing Biden's authority...then who really is "the mob" in that situation? 

Political power is an amorphous thing.  It cannot inhabit marble columns or 230-year old scraps of paper (which is why all the "Oh!  Not our CaPiToL" pearl-clutching was so off-putting.)  Political power can only reside within "the fickle crowd"; our civil institutions only persist because enough people do not try to physically overrun them, if it ever becomes *not enough then these institutions are deserving of being replaced, perhaps even violently. 

The outcome would be chaos of the highest level, and shifting the attention from the ongoing economic and pandemic crisis which still is tearing through this country, and towards absolute mayhem.
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shua
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« Reply #35 on: January 12, 2021, 10:29:58 PM »

The reaction against him is a striking illustration of how much the Overton window has narrowed on this forum compared to where it used to be.
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SevenEleven
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« Reply #36 on: January 12, 2021, 11:33:56 PM »

The reaction against him is a striking illustration of how much the Overton window has narrowed on this forum compared to where it used to be.

Lol. And for those of us in reality...
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Badger
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« Reply #37 on: January 12, 2021, 11:57:58 PM »


Basically that Democrats are to blame for Republicans wanting to do this and that if the mob no longer trusts American democracy, our country deserves to be torn down and rebuilt from the ashes. Basically the worst possible fusion of resentment politics and social contract theory.

This was the most egregious part of what he said:
Plus no building is no important than the Capitol. That's just sacred. You don't touch that.

It's great when the neolibs' masks slip just enough that you can plainly see that their true fidelity is to mere physical presentations of state power (i.e., literal buildings) and other objects, lol.  Power resides in people, not buildings.  If the U.S. Capitol ever becomes a symbol of a system of civil government that does not serve the best interests of the people, then it will deserve to be burned to the ground.

Like I said, if Joe Biden had any balls (like I wish he did), he would be declaring provisional government and martial law tonight.  Would he, if successful, destory the system of government that keeps Republicans artifically in power?  Probably yes, but that's the price that has to be paid to reconstitute our belief in a government that works for "the majority" (defined however the mob wishes.)  This isn't a Republican or Democrat thing, it's a matter of renewing our right to self-determination and refreshing the civil state (which really hasn't been seriously updated since the New Deal/WWII.)     

Scott, once again, captures my thoughts on today's happenings almost perfectly:

Quote from: Senator Scott link=topic=422360.msg7874637
The system is broken and it needs to be rebuilt from the ground-up. I don't care who sparks it, but this is actually a moment for the disenfranchised and the cynics on both the left and right to retake the country for ourselves.

That the mob, as some sort of reward for their actions, should be allowed to dictate exactly how a new American system of government will work. Saying that a few thousand violent extremists should be allowed to impose their agenda unilaterally on the rest of the country? Thatís not clever, sophisticated or intellectual. Itís just straight up moronic.

I will commit one of Atlas' cardinal sins and post in my own "opinion of" thread.

FWIW, the "mob" I was referring to in my post was not the mob breeching the Capitol but a more abstract "mob" representing the prevailing majoritarian opinion.  Last week's aimless, selfie-taking group of rioters never seriously threatened to decapitate our system of Constitutional government.  For that to have happened, it would have taken something quite more spectacular:  contemporaneous uprisings around the country, a military/LEO "stand down," inaction on the part of our NATO allies, etc.  We never even approached that point; not even the same universe, even.

But...play with the thought experiment I posited in the Capitol riot thread.  What if Biden went on national TV after the riots and said "These are dangerous insurrectionists.  The current president empowered them.  I have a popular mandate.  I will assume power immediately.  I ask the military, Federal bureaucracies and American people to support me."  If the outcome is most Americans and the armed forces recognizing Biden's authority...then who really is "the mob" in that situation? 

Political power is an amorphous thing.  It cannot inhabit marble columns or 230-year old scraps of paper (which is why all the "Oh!  Not our CaPiToL" pearl-clutching was so off-putting.)  Political power can only reside within "the fickle crowd"; our civil institutions only persist because enough people do not try to physically overrun them, if it ever becomes *not enough then these institutions are deserving of being replaced, perhaps even violently. 

Thank you for essentially confirming every criticism leveled of you in this thread.
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shua
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« Reply #38 on: January 13, 2021, 04:43:01 PM »

The reaction against him is a striking illustration of how much the Overton window has narrowed on this forum compared to where it used to be.

Lol. And for those of us in reality...

You've been here barely a year.
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SevenEleven
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« Reply #39 on: January 13, 2021, 07:31:43 PM »

The reaction against him is a striking illustration of how much the Overton window has narrowed on this forum compared to where it used to be.

Lol. And for those of us in reality...

You've been here barely a year.

That's not my point. The Overton window is a myth.
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AverroŽs Nix
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« Reply #40 on: January 13, 2021, 07:44:07 PM »

FF. The idea that Biden had the political power to do that strikes me as rather far out, though. If anything, our politics descending into open violence exposed where power really resides, and that's not in the presidency or any claim to it. Trump is a "very special" president in that he is capable of stirring up a violent mob, but that doesn't amount to much when he's not really in charge of the security state.
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« Reply #41 on: January 13, 2021, 07:57:46 PM »

The reaction against him is a striking illustration of how much the Overton window has narrowed on this forum compared to where it used to be.

The older I get, the less interest I have in talking about politics with people whose views are fundamentally out of alignment with mine. I suspect this is true of many people.
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Del Tachi
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« Reply #42 on: January 13, 2021, 08:33:12 PM »

The reaction against him is a striking illustration of how much the Overton window has narrowed on this forum compared to where it used to be.

The older I get, the less interest I have in talking about politics with people whose views are fundamentally out of alignment with mine. I suspect this is true of many people.

B O O M E R !!!
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shua
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« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2021, 09:07:53 PM »

The reaction against him is a striking illustration of how much the Overton window has narrowed on this forum compared to where it used to be.

Lol. And for those of us in reality...

You've been here barely a year.

That's not my point. The Overton window is a myth.

wut?  lmao
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« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2021, 09:48:33 PM »

The Overton Window is not a myth. It's barely even a metaphor. Life is strange enough without treating intellectual models as sacred narratives.
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TheReckoning
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« Reply #45 on: January 13, 2021, 11:13:28 PM »

The reaction against him is a striking illustration of how much the Overton window has narrowed on this forum compared to where it used to be.

The older I get, the less interest I have in talking about politics with people whose views are fundamentally out of alignment with mine. I suspect this is true of many people.

Thatís not a good thing, especially since our Congress is mostly above 80. Well, feels like that at least.
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Skunk
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« Reply #46 on: January 13, 2021, 11:18:22 PM »

HP for voting for shrill neoliberal Hillary Clinton.
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Cassius
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« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2021, 06:40:32 AM »

The reaction against him is a striking illustration of how much the Overton window has narrowed on this forum compared to where it used to be.

The older I get, the less interest I have in talking about politics with people whose views are fundamentally out of alignment with mine. I suspect this is true of many people.

Thatís not a good thing, especially since our Congress is mostly above 80. Well, feels like that at least.

Debate almost never changes the mind of anyone who wasnít uncommitted on the issue beforehand.

Anyway, FF.
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DC Al Fine
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« Reply #48 on: January 14, 2021, 06:51:31 AM »

The reaction against him is a striking illustration of how much the Overton window has narrowed on this forum compared to where it used to be.

It's kind of sad. With each passing year, the share of interesting posters declines on favour of indistinguishable D-Big State avatars all posting the same generic centre left takes.
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