DC Unrest Megathread

[Santander]

I don't understand why members of the House need to be fined for refusing to walk through metal detectors.

Just deny entry.  Can they walk onto a plane without going thru one?

They are lawfully elected members of a national legislature, not customers conducting a transaction.

It also seems like a petty tyranny, which is why I asked about it. What conceivable safety benefit is there to scanning the bodies of every member?

Sounds to me like a lot of republican politicians as well as posters on this forum have never held a real job before. Any American who works at a large plant, factory, shipping or sorting facility, warehouse, etc has to go through a metal detector, among other measures. I got through a metal detector and I'm scanned for a temperature check automatically as I scan my ID badge every day. I do realize that these are the kinds of working/middle class jobs that most republican politicians would never come into contact with at any point in their privileged, coddled lives, so I guess it's understandable.

Members of Congress are not employees. They are the reason the Capitol buildings, and Capitol security, exist. It is a ridiculous waste of time, and pure petulance by Pelosi, to demand members go through a metal detector. Why not strip search them? A plastic explosive wouldn't set off a metal detector...

I keep seeing you make this....uh.....let's call it a 'claim', and it's gotten no less ridiculous/incorrect no matter how many times you repeat it.

They are paid by the federal government. They receive a pension from the federal government. They receive health insurance from the federal government. The fact that they are elected does not mean they are not employees. They work for their constituents; they are paid by their constituents' taxes. On the "employment history" section of their resumes when they leave Congress I bet you they list their time as lawmakers. If you do "work", and you are "paid by someone else", you're an employee. Yours is an asinine line of argument, and repeating it incessantly does not make it true.

I don't see what receiving a paycheck from the federal government has to do with their standing. Are you disputing that the Capitol buildings solely exist for members of Congress to conduct their business? When I say members of Congress are not employees, it means that they don't work for Congress, they are Congress. The individual is merely a temporary officeholder, and the collective offices they hold are a self-governing branch of government. As Speaker, Nancy Pelosi has the power to make certain rules, but it is reasonable to expect the rules to be rational (well, not really, since we're talking about politicians here, but still). The House floor must have security, but that is to protect members from non-members, not each other.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/alanfeuer/status/1349820067974938629

[Crumpets]

If I could try to tightrope walk my not-fully-formed opinion on this, if we are asked to go through TSA to get on planes and we are asking school students to go through metal detectors to get into school, it's only reasonable we also ask this of congresspeople going to work in a known high-risk location. We already let them drive without traffic, pay them generously with exceptional benefits, and pay for their own safety in a building that we also pay for. If congress doesn't have any of the inconveniences that most Americans have, how can we trust them to actually understand what we need them to do?

The obvious response is that none of that is reasonable, and I don't think that resigned acceptance of the security state is justification for actively forcing more of it.

The alternate to the "security state," at least to the extent that one exists now, is that we actually try to address structural reasons why there are security threats. And I'm more resigned to the reality that that's not happening any time soon. The amount of security we have now with things like the TSA and school metal detectors (militarized local police departments not so much) I think are at least a sustainable reality until we get to the point where we can address those structural problems, and making sure congress feels that reality as much as the rest of us is probably one of the best ways to make sure they actually feel pressure to act.

[Ferguson97]

https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1349819969211662349

[Santander]

https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1349819969211662349

My hero Steve. When things get tough, you need a sonofabitch like Bannon in your corner.

Note Trump's defense of "Mr.Bannon". We are now in Bannon territory - when you're backed into a corner, the enemies are turning up the heat, and your friends are fleeing, it's good to have a Steve Bannon type on your side. That might explain the streetfighter tactics today - never back down, never apologize, never show weakness. If it works, Bannon will be stronger than ever. If it doesn't, Bannon will be out, and it'll be the beginning of the end of the Trump presidency.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1349819969211662349

I'm sure this will end well.

[Yoda]

I don't understand why members of the House need to be fined for refusing to walk through metal detectors.

Just deny entry.  Can they walk onto a plane without going thru one?

They are lawfully elected members of a national legislature, not customers conducting a transaction.

It also seems like a petty tyranny, which is why I asked about it. What conceivable safety benefit is there to scanning the bodies of every member?

Sounds to me like a lot of republican politicians as well as posters on this forum have never held a real job before. Any American who works at a large plant, factory, shipping or sorting facility, warehouse, etc has to go through a metal detector, among other measures. I got through a metal detector and I'm scanned for a temperature check automatically as I scan my ID badge every day. I do realize that these are the kinds of working/middle class jobs that most republican politicians would never come into contact with at any point in their privileged, coddled lives, so I guess it's understandable.

Members of Congress are not employees. They are the reason the Capitol buildings, and Capitol security, exist. It is a ridiculous waste of time, and pure petulance by Pelosi, to demand members go through a metal detector. Why not strip search them? A plastic explosive wouldn't set off a metal detector...

I keep seeing you make this....uh.....let's call it a 'claim', and it's gotten no less ridiculous/incorrect no matter how many times you repeat it.

They are paid by the federal government. They receive a pension from the federal government. They receive health insurance from the federal government. The fact that they are elected does not mean they are not employees. They work for their constituents; they are paid by their constituents' taxes. On the "employment history" section of their resumes when they leave Congress I bet you they list their time as lawmakers. If you do "work", and you are "paid by someone else", you're an employee. Yours is an asinine line of argument, and repeating it incessantly does not make it true.

I don't see what receiving a paycheck from the federal government has to do with their standing. Are you disputing that the Capitol buildings solely exist for members of Congress to conduct their business? When I say members of Congress are not employees, it means that they don't work for Congress, they are Congress. The individual is merely a temporary officeholder, and the collective offices they hold are a self-governing branch of government. As Speaker, Nancy Pelosi has the power to make certain rules, but it is reasonable to expect the rules to be rational (well, not really, since we're talking about politicians here, but still). The House floor must have security, but that is to protect members from non-members, not each other.

Are you disputing that the building I and my coworkers work in exists solely for us to conduct our work?

Does that mean that we can dictate to our employer that we don't want to go through metal detectors, get temperature checks, or wear masks?

Also, "their" business? "Their"?

You seem to have a deep, fundamental misunderstanding of who lawmakers are sent to Washington, DC to serve. They are not sent there to serve themselves, they are sent there to serve the country. They are there to do "our" business. In our building. That our tax dollars pay for. They don't own, pay for, or care for it. They are subject to rules of conduct and safety just as anyone else is.

I didn't think it was possible, but your argument has grown even more nonsensical.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

Mods please delete the Bohemian Rhapsody crap.

Bismillah! No - we will not let it go!

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

I don't understand why members of the House need to be fined for refusing to walk through metal detectors.

Just deny entry.  Can they walk onto a plane without going thru one?

They are lawfully elected members of a national legislature, not customers conducting a transaction.

It also seems like a petty tyranny, which is why I asked about it. What conceivable safety benefit is there to scanning the bodies of every member?

You might ask Charles Sumner about that.

[True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)]

https://twitter.com/CarterElliottIV/status/1349722422744911882

If true he needs to be expelled immediately.

Only if he gave them the day off to participate.

[Absentee Voting Ghost of Ruin]

Mods please delete the Bohemian Rhapsody crap.

Bismillah! No - we will not let it go!

Let it go.

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/mmfa/status/1349822804414357505

[GeorgiaModerate]

https://twitter.com/DJJudd/status/1349843630329122819

[Penn_Quaker_Girl]

Mods please delete the Bohemian Rhapsody crap.

Bismillah! No - we will not let it go!

Oh geez. 

The call is coming from inside the house. 

[VAR]

https://twitter.com/HotlineJosh/status/1349844554539806721

[Progressive Pessimist]

https://twitter.com/HotlineJosh/status/1349844554539806721

Oh, honey...it took you that long to realize that? By the way, I'll answer your question for you: you can't. I'm sorry to break it to you.

[Sbane]

Many left-wing twitter users are saying it's the real face of America.
They consider it as the worst country ever in the history of mankind.
Their solution is f America to be dismantled, forgotten, erased forever.

https://twitter.com/Tinashe/status/1346945438939680770

Some leftifts’ hatred for the country is distressing

This is a perfect encapsulation of the threat this country is facing. It is coming from both the left and the right and I hope reasonable people on both sides (like 80% of us) will recognize that. Let's crack down on all these freaks and end this sad episode of American history.

This enlightened centrism of “both sides” is always hilarious to see because people just want to include the side they dislike even when they have nothing to do with the occasion lmao

I don’t see the left threatening to kill politicians they dislike OR refusing to accept election results they lost but ok.

And I don't see the right going around damaging businesses and rioting on the streets. What's your point? This incident is even more disgusting because it is literally a terrorist act. That being said all violence is wrong and there has been too much of it in the last year and it needs to end.

[Hammy]

Many left-wing twitter users are saying it's the real face of America.
They consider it as the worst country ever in the history of mankind.
Their solution is f America to be dismantled, forgotten, erased forever.

https://twitter.com/Tinashe/status/1346945438939680770

Some leftifts’ hatred for the country is distressing

This is a perfect encapsulation of the threat this country is facing. It is coming from both the left and the right and I hope reasonable people on both sides (like 80% of us) will recognize that. Let's crack down on all these freaks and end this sad episode of American history.

This enlightened centrism of “both sides” is always hilarious to see because people just want to include the side they dislike even when they have nothing to do with the occasion lmao

I don’t see the left threatening to kill politicians they dislike OR refusing to accept election results they lost but ok.

And I don't see the right going around damaging businesses and rioting on the streets. What's your point? This incident is even more disgusting because it is literally a terrorist act. That being said all violence is wrong and there has been too much of it in the last year and it needs to end.

Because to people on the right, inanimate objects like cars and tvs are treated with more dignity than human life.

[Badger]

Many left-wing twitter users are saying it's the real face of America.
They consider it as the worst country ever in the history of mankind.
Their solution is f America to be dismantled, forgotten, erased forever.

https://twitter.com/Tinashe/status/1346945438939680770

Some leftifts’ hatred for the country is distressing

This is a perfect encapsulation of the threat this country is facing. It is coming from both the left and the right and I hope reasonable people on both sides (like 80% of us) will recognize that. Let's crack down on all these freaks and end this sad episode of American history.

This enlightened centrism of “both sides” is always hilarious to see because people just want to include the side they dislike even when they have nothing to do with the occasion lmao

I don’t see the left threatening to kill politicians they dislike OR refusing to accept election results they lost but ok.

And I don't see the right going around damaging businesses and rioting on the streets.

The first part of that question begs the request for evidence of any Biden or Democratic party supporters damaging businesses. The second is just...

[Badger]

I don't understand why members of the House need to be fined for refusing to walk through metal detectors.

Just deny entry.  Can they walk onto a plane without going thru one?

They are lawfully elected members of a national legislature, not customers conducting a transaction.

It also seems like a petty tyranny, which is why I asked about it. What conceivable safety benefit is there to scanning the bodies of every member?

Sounds to me like a lot of republican politicians as well as posters on this forum have never held a real job before. Any American who works at a large plant, factory, shipping or sorting facility, warehouse, etc has to go through a metal detector, among other measures. I got through a metal detector and I'm scanned for a temperature check automatically as I scan my ID badge every day. I do realize that these are the kinds of working/middle class jobs that most republican politicians would never come into contact with at any point in their privileged, coddled lives, so I guess it's understandable.

1. It's not a job! They are elected officials. That's a fundamentally different relationship. Are you capable of understanding that, or have we reduced all of humanity to employers, employees, and customers?
2. You pass through security because you're a lawyer. It doesn't mean that you're any more in touch with the People than anyone else. Lots of white collar people have jobs that involve this, and lots of blue collar people never go near a metal detector. My wife has a floor job at a plant and she does not.
3. It's always very telling when people throw out claims about privilige that have no grounding in the conversation taking place. We've created this neat rhetorical trick that allows you to acknowledge that what you're defending is bad, but that the people getting it deserve it for some ill-defined reason related to unverifiable claims about "structures" or other vague abstractions.

Cool your jets. Yoda's observation that the the Republicans who blustered and argue with Capitol Police about going through metal detectors does show a rather privileged divided from the rest of us Schmucks who largely, though as noted for your wife situation not universally, deal with increasingly ubiquitous Security checks at buildings. The response of those Republicans reflected a definite sense of entitlement on even a good day. But to do so literally a day or two after an armed mob stormed the capitol? That bypasses entitled and go straight to tone deaf.

[Хahar 🤔]

I don't understand why members of the House need to be fined for refusing to walk through metal detectors.

Just deny entry.  Can they walk onto a plane without going thru one?

They are lawfully elected members of a national legislature, not customers conducting a transaction.

It also seems like a petty tyranny, which is why I asked about it. What conceivable safety benefit is there to scanning the bodies of every member?

Sounds to me like a lot of republican politicians as well as posters on this forum have never held a real job before. Any American who works at a large plant, factory, shipping or sorting facility, warehouse, etc has to go through a metal detector, among other measures. I got through a metal detector and I'm scanned for a temperature check automatically as I scan my ID badge every day. I do realize that these are the kinds of working/middle class jobs that most republican politicians would never come into contact with at any point in their privileged, coddled lives, so I guess it's understandable.

1. It's not a job! They are elected officials. That's a fundamentally different relationship. Are you capable of understanding that, or have we reduced all of humanity to employers, employees, and customers?
2. You pass through security because you're a lawyer. It doesn't mean that you're any more in touch with the People than anyone else. Lots of white collar people have jobs that involve this, and lots of blue collar people never go near a metal detector. My wife has a floor job at a plant and she does not.
3. It's always very telling when people throw out claims about privilige that have no grounding in the conversation taking place. We've created this neat rhetorical trick that allows you to acknowledge that what you're defending is bad, but that the people getting it deserve it for some ill-defined reason related to unverifiable claims about "structures" or other vague abstractions.

Cool your jets. Yoda's observation that the the Republicans who blustered and argue with Capitol Police about going through metal detectors does show a rather privileged divided from the rest of us Schmucks who largely, though as noted for your wife situation not universally, deal with increasingly ubiquitous Security checks at buildings. The response of those Republicans reflected a definite sense of entitlement on even a good day. But to do so literally a day or two after an armed mob stormed the capitol? That bypasses entitled and go straight to tone deaf.

Resorting to tone policing and pointing at "optics" are both sure signs that the actual argument won't be addressed in any way.

[Badger]

I don't understand why members of the House need to be fined for refusing to walk through metal detectors.

Just deny entry.  Can they walk onto a plane without going thru one?

They are lawfully elected members of a national legislature, not customers conducting a transaction.

It also seems like a petty tyranny, which is why I asked about it. What conceivable safety benefit is there to scanning the bodies of every member?

Sounds to me like a lot of republican politicians as well as posters on this forum have never held a real job before. Any American who works at a large plant, factory, shipping or sorting facility, warehouse, etc has to go through a metal detector, among other measures. I got through a metal detector and I'm scanned for a temperature check automatically as I scan my ID badge every day. I do realize that these are the kinds of working/middle class jobs that most republican politicians would never come into contact with at any point in their privileged, coddled lives, so I guess it's understandable.

1. It's not a job! They are elected officials. That's a fundamentally different relationship. Are you capable of understanding that, or have we reduced all of humanity to employers, employees, and customers?
2. You pass through security because you're a lawyer. It doesn't mean that you're any more in touch with the People than anyone else. Lots of white collar people have jobs that involve this, and lots of blue collar people never go near a metal detector. My wife has a floor job at a plant and she does not.
3. It's always very telling when people throw out claims about privilige that have no grounding in the conversation taking place. We've created this neat rhetorical trick that allows you to acknowledge that what you're defending is bad, but that the people getting it deserve it for some ill-defined reason related to unverifiable claims about "structures" or other vague abstractions.

Cool your jets. Yoda's observation that the the Republicans who blustered and argue with Capitol Police about going through metal detectors does show a rather privileged divided from the rest of us Schmucks who largely, though as noted for your wife situation not universally, deal with increasingly ubiquitous Security checks at buildings. The response of those Republicans reflected a definite sense of entitlement on even a good day. But to do so literally a day or two after an armed mob stormed the capitol? That bypasses entitled and go straight to tone deaf.

Resorting to tone policing and pointing at "optics" are both sure signs that the actual argument won't be addressed in any way.

Tone-deaf is only one way to put it. Brain-dead and absolutely unable to have learned any constructive lessons from the capitol takeover is perhaps a more cogent one.

This isn't a matter of Optics. Rather, it demonstrates the very disturbing level of entitlement these Congressmembers wrongly believe they deserve.

[FEMA Camp Administrator]

I didn't realize a harmless extra layer of security was such an infringement of one's freedom.

Seeing the New Left openly mock anyone who doesn't full-on embrace any security measure makes me feel like I am living in bizarro world. Completely incompatible with the first half of my political existence.

This--including similar turnarounds in terms of how people discuss law enforcement and foreign policy--is undoubtedly one of the most bizarre features of the past four years. 

[7,052,770]

https://twitter.com/HotlineJosh/status/1349844554539806721

She was happy to stoke these people for votes until they literally tried to kill her...

[DC Al Fine]

I don't understand why members of the House need to be fined for refusing to walk through metal detectors.

Just deny entry.  Can they walk onto a plane without going thru one?

They are lawfully elected members of a national legislature, not customers conducting a transaction.

It also seems like a petty tyranny, which is why I asked about it. What conceivable safety benefit is there to scanning the bodies of every member?

Sounds to me like a lot of republican politicians as well as posters on this forum have never held a real job before. Any American who works at a large plant, factory, shipping or sorting facility, warehouse, etc has to go through a metal detector, among other measures. I got through a metal detector and I'm scanned for a temperature check automatically as I scan my ID badge every day. I do realize that these are the kinds of working/middle class jobs that most republican politicians would never come into contact with at any point in their privileged, coddled lives, so I guess it's understandable.

1. It's not a job! They are elected officials. That's a fundamentally different relationship. Are you capable of understanding that, or have we reduced all of humanity to employers, employees, and customers?

This.

Parliamentary privilege isn't some airy fairy thing. It's an importany underpinning of our democracy. Indeed it was a vital part of ensuring the United Kingdom shifted to a democratic government.

From the Parliament of Canada:

Members must be able to fulfill their parliamentary duties without undue obstruction, interference or intimidation.

Incidents involving physical assault or physical obstruction (such as traffic barriers, security cordons and demonstrations) have been interpreted as impeding members’ access to the parliamentary precinct or blocking their free movement within the precinct.

Interfering with the right of our lawfully elected officials to take their seat in the legislature with impunity undermines this crucial right.