If Germany still had a Kaiser
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  If Germany still had a Kaiser
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Author Topic: If Germany still had a Kaiser  (Read 1379 times)
buritobr
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« on: January 01, 2021, 08:22:12 AM »

Let's consider the monarchy didn't end in November 1918. A parliamentary monarchy was established following the British model (remember: Friedrich Ebert supported keeping the monarchy). Wilhelm II resigned and a descendant became the Kaiser.
Two scenarios could have happened
1) The new Kaiser is committed to democracy, but since the monarchy still exists, the far-right become not so angry, Hitler doesn't become the chancellor and there is not another war in Europe
2) The new Kaiser dislikes the new regime, starts to work close to the NSDAP. He supports Hitler becoming the chancellor and the rest of the history is similar to the real life. Remember: Italy and Japan had monarchs, but their far-right dictators were not the monarchs. Something similar could have happened in Germany
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2021, 03:11:54 PM »

For the House of Hohenzollern to remain on the throne, they'd have to accept a true constitutional monarchy, in which case, Scenario #1 occurs, though a very different WWII (consisting of the U.S./Britain/France vs. the Soviets/Germany) could definitely still happen if butterflying the Nazis away means the KPD might gain enough lower-middle class votes to form a government.
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Jolly Slugg
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« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2021, 10:49:55 AM »

"the KPD might gain enough lower-middle class votes to form a government."

ASB.

the Bolshevik expropriation of private property, the driving of 4 million, mostly middle-class, Russians into exile, and the violent suppression of the peasantry (80% of the population), with the attendant mass executions and establishment of the labour camp system, terrified the middle classes of the rest of Europe. The result was the rise of fascism, first in Italy and then across the continent. Fascism would not have existed except as a reaction against communism. Mussolini, Franco, Horthy and Hitler rode to power on the back of middle-class fear of communism. In Germany in particular, where the Communist Party (KDP) continued the threaten the "bourgeoisie" with expropriation and worse as the Depression struck, middle-class and peasant voters flocked to the NSDAP, and the labour movement was unable to resist Hitler's rise because of the fatal hostility between the SPD and the KPD.
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brucejoel99
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« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2021, 02:31:52 PM »

"the KPD might gain enough lower-middle class votes to form a government."

ASB.

Not really, no. For one thing, the Kaiser still being on the throne in 1919 would probably butterfly the Spartacist uprising away, which would mean that their leadership would be more competent, more willing to stand up to Moscow, & more politically viable as a result. If the KPD can actually start to grow as a party at that point without being hamstrung by Moscow's actions, then they're well-positioned to actually start breaking into the SPD's base, & if butterflies were to result in the SPD being in power when the Depression hits, then the KPD could very well have absorbed most of the SPD's leftist support. In combination with the KPD picking up enough of the Nazi's base (which would've definitely been plausible, given the makeup of the party prior to the Night of the Long Knives), then I don't think there's anything really stopping them from capitalizing on the Depression & basically pulling the same trick that the Nazis did in real life when they took control.

Now, do I think that this would've been the likeliest eventuality? Not really, no. It's certainly a plausible one, though.
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Benjamin Frank
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« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2021, 05:35:14 PM »

I think we can all agree it would have led to a bun fight.
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True Federalist (진정한 연방 주의자)
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« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2021, 03:47:18 PM »

I think we can all agree it would have led to a bun fight.
Poppy(seed)cock!
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NewYorkExpress
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« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2021, 07:52:37 AM »

Hitler still becomes Chancellor (it's kind of hard to not appoint the leader of the largest party in the Reichstag to the Chancellor's position), and World War II starts slightly later, as Hitler presumably needs Kaiser Wilhelm (who presumably is still Germany's head of state) to die first in order to seize dictatorial powers.
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buritobr
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« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2021, 07:08:33 PM »

Hitler still becomes Chancellor (it's kind of hard to not appoint the leader of the largest party in the Reichstag to the Chancellor's position), and World War II starts slightly later, as Hitler presumably needs Kaiser Wilhelm (who presumably is still Germany's head of state) to die first in order to seize dictatorial powers.

I don't think it would be necessary. Italy had a king and Japan had an emperor when they entered in the war.
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NewYorkExpress
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« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2021, 07:39:14 PM »

Hitler still becomes Chancellor (it's kind of hard to not appoint the leader of the largest party in the Reichstag to the Chancellor's position), and World War II starts slightly later, as Hitler presumably needs Kaiser Wilhelm (who presumably is still Germany's head of state) to die first in order to seize dictatorial powers.

I don't think it would be necessary. Italy had a king and Japan had an emperor when they entered in the war.

Emperor Hirohito literally supported Japan's participation WWII, and the King in Italy was presumably a supporter of Mussolini.

I can't see Kaiser Wilhelm being willing to fight the major European Powers a second time.
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Jolly Slugg
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« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2021, 01:14:05 AM »

OT: I wouldn't mind seeing a short story about Himmler ending up in the Nuremberg Trials and trying the "I'm just a chicken farmer! The only thing i know about is poultry!". It wouldn't save him from the noose but he'd attempt it I am sure.
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